Let him cry until he pukes.....
that's the advice I got from pedi today
She then said to clean it up without interacting with him and let him cry some more....
The only reason we were talking about sleep is I'm concerned that 2-3 nights week C wakes up screaming bloody murder (doesn't matter if he is sleeping with us or alone). He seems to be in so much pain and will sometimes cry for 1-2 hours (most the time only for 15-20 minutes).
C was a great sleeper until all his health problems started (chronic ear infections, reflux due to soy, and asthma). I'm not sleep deprived and neither is he, anymore anyways.
The pedi seems to think he is having nightmares and wants me to track what time of night this is happening and try to wake him up a little bit before they seem to happen....I don't think a 13 month would cry for 2 hours about nightmare, it just seems more like a pain cry to me.
I really do like our pedi, and appreciated that when I told her that that extent of CIO wasn't for us, she respected that (and honestly I don't think judged for me it), but she had no other advice to offer.
His ears are fine, he doesn't have any teeth coming in, and this pattern has been going on since he was about 6 months old anyways....any thoughts on what could be causing the screaming at night?
*he won't even nurse during these fits, we've gone as far to walk outside with him and we basically just have to wait for him to stop crying, nothing we do makes a difference.
Re: Let him cry until he pukes.....
That whole thing sounds so terrible. I don't have any advice - just hang in there. I can't imagine how hard that is!
Is it possible he's not actually totally awake while he's crying - which would mean he's having a night terror? I don't know if they can start as young as 6 months old or last for an hour at a time, but it might be something to look into? Ferber has a whole chapter on night terrors (which I didn't read since we're not dealing with it), so maybe that would be a place to start.
ETA: What I DID read from the Ferber chapter is that night terrors are NOT the same as nightmares - so it's not actually something that's making LO fearful, it's more of a partial waking where they're just stuck between being awake and asleep.
I second the night terrors thing. DD has been having them off and on for a few months now and it's no fun at all. It sounds like he might be having something similar, but I don't know if they could ever last 2 hours.
For her, she doesn't seem to recognize us at all, the more I try to calm her down the harder she cries (which is sooooo totally the opposite of any other time she cries) and we just have to ride it out. She's only gone on for an hour at the worst, though.
This. I finally figured out that Ari was having night terrors. He is prone to them if he's overtired, but it seems to be less of an issue over the last 2 months or so. The peak was between 13-18 months.
If I tried to interfere, it prolonged the night terror. If I just left him alone (still close since we bedshared, but I just didn't touch him or talk to him), he would generally be done in 5-10 minutes. I could usually tell it was a night terror b/c his eyes would be open, but he wouldn't really be looking "at" me - does that make sense?
Is he taking anything for the reflux? If he is it's possible the binder has something in it that he's not tolerating.
And I understand. My kid screamed for 18+hours a day. AT 7 months old the neurologist told me "it's cause you don't let him cry". I followed ferber to a T and it didn't improve a thing, he could fall asleep fine, but he was up EVERY 30 minutes screaming bloody murder. I finally demanded medications for him 3 months later and miraculously he started sleeping.
My point is, that all doctors don't seem to think sleep is a critical symptom because they're not going through it. I'm pretty sure they all think we're overexagerating first time moms.
It does sound like he is in pain. Is it possible his reflux has returned? Are you sure he's not ingesting any hidden soy or that he has an additional trigger? We have to thicken all of DS's liquids and incline his crib because of his severe reflux.
I agree with PPs that it sounds like night terrors. I remember when I was younger my cousin would get them and I witnessed it a couple of times when I stayed over at my Aunts house. It was really scary! Of course I was only like 10 years old. As a mother I can't imagine how hard that would be to deal with, hugs to all the mamas going though that.
It is really disappointing to me that a doctor would recommend a child CIO to the point of vomiting without offering up any other suggestions. Personally for me that would be a deal breaker; I would find a new doctor after that no matter how much I liked them previously. I hope you are able to get a second opinion and some answers.
Thanks for all the feedback! I guess maybe it could be night terrors. My nephew had them, but would only cry for 5-10 minutes. The 2 hours only happened maybe 2-3 times, so maybe???
We have an unlimited amount of reflux meds, so I decided to play Dr. mom (I know not the best idea) and start him back on his reflux meds. I use to think it was the reflux meds making him scream. He would sleep great for the first 3-4 nights on prevacid and then the screaming would start back. We tried other ones, and none of them seemed to make a bit of difference either way.
I agree that that sometimes I get the neurotic first time mom treatment. Thanks to the ear infections, asthma, and reflux we seriously have been to the doctor almost every week. Only a handful of times could they not find something "wrong".
I think they think I'm just a wuss and won't sleep train. If I didn't think something was truely wrong I would most likely let him CIO to some degree at this point. He has made HUGE sleep progress despite it all (i.e. finshes falling asleep in his crib, doesn't fight sleep, and at least once a night I can get him back to sleep by patting his back).
As a mother I've decided nothing feels worse than your child crying and feeling like I can't do crap about it. I'm seriously wishing that I could take him to a "sleep specialist" or something...does that even exist?
DS has been having a similar issue over the last few weeks. He'll wake up in the middle of the night screaming. We've been having trouble identifying the cause.
He gets out of bed and walks around screaming. His eyes are open but nothing consoles him. He fights us if we try to hold him or lay with him. The only way to get it him to stop and calm down is take him out of his room and sometimes even down stairs.
DH believes food is the cure for everything so DS ends up getting a midnight snack. Then he goes back to bed. We are going back and forth as with
A) Truly hungry
C) Night terror that involves walking
We can't figure it out so we are having trouble with the correct response. I know I'm not much help but maybe misery loves company?
I think the most difficult part is that you have a doctor who doesn't trust your judgment as a mother.
I have totally been in your shoes. We were at the doctor constantly this past winter with the same stuff...reflux, chronic ear infections, MSPI. It was terrible. But whenever my pedi couldn't figure out what was wrong, he referred me to a specialist. When I told him that she was in pain, he did something about it, or found somebody that could.
You need to trust your instincts more. If you are not sure about what is causing the nightwakings, don't accept your doctor's dismissal. YOU know your baby better than anyone in the whole world, and you are his advocate. And yes, there is a whole field of sleep medicine out there, with sleep specialists that could help you. Are you seeing a pediatric GI for the reflux?
This is what happened with DD1. I re-did her naps, making sure that she went down by a certain time and that really seemed to help. GL - I know its tough!!
I know this might sound weird but is there any way you could videotape him during one of these awake periods? Maybe show this to your pedi or another for a second opinion? They might notice something (facial expression, specific pitch to the scream, anything!) that could clue them in to why it is happening. It sounds awful- I hope something works and this clears up soon for your little guy!
Yikes! So sorry. I would not leave him to cry it out, personally. I don't think you are a wuss at all, your poor child has been through so much, that would just make it worse. You are doing a great job.
1. It could be night terrors. Usually kids are still asleep (it's like sleep walking) and you have gotten good advice on that already.
2. It could be gas, which is hard to treat, maybe keep a food diary of what he is eating and of what you are eating if you are still nursing and try to see if there is any correlation with a specific food.
3. Also could be a scratched cornea, which can be extremely painful, does he seem to have eyelashes that curl in?
Please don't feel that you are doing something wrong!
That sounds awful! DS has had a few night terrors and they are exactly as others have described, absolutely terrible. It sounds like a definite possibility for you although there are certainly other possible issues. The poster who mentioned gas has a very interesting point, that is something that could start in the middle of the night from something he ate and nothing you do will soothe him. A lot of people think colic is a gas issue and what you are describing almost sounds like a colic episode. Is there something he eats every night that maybe should be skipped for a few nights to test?
I would keep a log of all the waking. The times he is up, how much screaming, what helped/didn't help, etc. so the doctor can see exactly what is going on.
FWIW, our pedi recommended the same plan of action with CIO and vomiting. I flat out told him we weren't comfortable with that and that was he said "Some people lean toward Dr. Sears, some toward Dr. Ferber. I personally prefer Dr. Ferber but you guys have to decide what you are comfortable with." Ds was probably about 8 months old at the time. We love our pedi and I was really glad I was honest and we moved on from it.
Good luck, you guys have been through so much with sleep and this seems really bad. I hope you can resolve it soon.
I'm sorry that your ds is in distress.
My ds used to have night terrors, and like pps dc, he was inconsolable and seemed to not recognize me or his surroundings. After he had calmed down and was completely awake, I would offer him milk and a banana. He would eat and go back to sleep. I don't know if he was having true night terrors or the episode was triggered by hunger.
I'm sorry that your ds is in distress.
My ds used to have night terrors, and like pps dc, he was inconsolable and seemed to not recognize me or his surroundings. After he had calmed down and was completely awake, I would offer him milk and a banana. He would eat and go back to sleep. I don't know if he was having true night terrors or if the episode was triggered by hunger.