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"The Business of Being Born"
Has anybody else seen this documentary? Watched it with DH a while back (yay for streaming on Netflix) and it really got us thinking. I know all documentaries are biased in some way, but to me it was really eye-opening.
WHEN you ladies get KU, do you know what birth method you'd prefer given good circumstances (no previous C-sections, breeched babies, etc). I have never had kids and I have a lot of doubts about being able to handle the pain of birth without help, but I like the IDEA of it. Hmm...
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Re: "The Business of Being Born"
Saw it, liked it. Had a midwife when I was pregnant. (Would have done home birth.) There are a lot of techniques for natural pain management that childbirth classes can teach you. Natural and/or homebirth isn't for everyone, but I personally am a big supporter.
ETA: Changed wording.
I cried like a little *** when I watched it!
It really hit a chord in me. Something I'll definitely look into IF I am luck enough to get knocked up!
Starting my first 2WW now I think. I'll know for sure after I temp tomorrow - should be third day of a temp spike. I think I'm going to be driving myself crazy seeking out these sorts of movies in the meantime.
This. My first birth was with a midwife and was an induced hospital birth with an epidural. My second was with an OB and a doula and was an all natural hospital birth of a 10 pound boy. If I'm successful ttc, my next birth (barring any MAJOR complications) will be a homebirth with a midwife.
I "planned" to go med free with my first (the induction) but my "planning" didn't go any further than just saying I would try. With my second I did as much preparation as I possibly could. I read everything I could get my hands on (there are SO many good books out there!), did a lot of meditation and visualization, met with my doula several times to discuss positions/techniques for dealing with contractions, etc. It made all the difference in the world for me.
DD1 EDD 08/18/01, born 08/03/2001 ~ 9lbs 10oz, 21.5 in
DS1 EDD 4/30/2004, born 05/04/2004 ~ 10lbs, 22 in
mc 02/14/12 @ 5 weeks
DD2 EDD 12/25/12, born 12/30/12 ~ 10lbs 11oz, 21.25 in
mc 12/05/15 @ 12 weeks
Cautiously expecting 12/02/16
I respect the hell outta anybody able to go through that au naturale. I know so many girls who just say "I don't want it to ruin my vagina" and "Why go through all that pain when you can schedule a c-section?" Not that c-section is necesarily a bad option, I just kind of cringe when it seems like people are choosing it based on selfish-sounding reasons rather than really researching what is best for mom AND baby. Not making judgements here, just being honest about how it makes me feel. My boss is one of the people I know who literally said "I'm just gonna tell my doctor to cut it on so-and-so date." I don't think having it "cut out" is complication-free! I'm sure there is plenty of pain involved in that as well. I guess she AND I won't truly know what we'll do till we're in that position.
I definitely am interested in getting a midwife involved somehow, but I haven't decided just how natural I'd go. There is a part of me that wants to prove it to myself that I am tough enough, but another part that says "You are such a weenie you'll never make it!" LOL
You are much tougher than you think, I guarantee it! Most hospitals have midwives, so I would highly recommend using one when you get your bfp. Having a midwife for a hospital birth does not mean that you can't have pain meds if you decide during labor that you want some. Definitely discuss your concerns, doubts and worries with her and I'm sure she will have advice and suggestions for you.
I have many great books I could recommend to you on the subject, if you like to read and are interested!
DD1 EDD 08/18/01, born 08/03/2001 ~ 9lbs 10oz, 21.5 in
DS1 EDD 4/30/2004, born 05/04/2004 ~ 10lbs, 22 in
mc 02/14/12 @ 5 weeks
DD2 EDD 12/25/12, born 12/30/12 ~ 10lbs 11oz, 21.25 in
mc 12/05/15 @ 12 weeks
Cautiously expecting 12/02/16
О Привязать! Z!
**Butting in on this board again**
I just gave birth 2 months ago for the first time. I did watch it while I was pregnant and it is one of the big things that convinced me that I needed to have a med free birth. I was dead set on med free and yelled at people that told me I was stupid for wanting to do it that way. My birth plan stated that the nurses where not allowed to go near me with pitocin and not to ask if I needed meds.
Flash forward to birth. I had a 46 hour labor start to finish. I lasted about 33 hours without an epi. In the end I really had to get one. I was soooo tired physically and mentally. My nurses told me that my body was slowing down the contractions because of it. They said if I kept going without any rest I would probably end up with a c-section. I opted for the epi and felt so completely guilty that I could be harming my baby in some way.
My labor picked up for a couple of centimeters and then slowed down again. The nurses then mentioned the other dreaded drug, pitocin. After giving it another hour with no more progress, I agreed to get the lowest possible dose of pitocin. It quickly pushed me to 10 and my baby was ready to come out.
The whole point of the story is to keep your mind open because you really have no idea and no control over what your body is going to do in labor. Have an idea of what you want but be flexible. You will feel less guilty if something in your birth plan needs to change. Getting an epi and pitocin did not harm my baby at all! He was great! He never went into any kind of distress, he passed is Apgar with a perfect score and he breastfeed right away!
(sorry if there are wording or spelling errors. I am really tired right now)
It's a great documentary. My plan is to absolutely go med-free. I feel as if my body was built to birth a baby without medication, and that's what my goal is. There will be a lot of preparation involved. I've been reading books and articles/etc regarding natural birth for the past... bah, math... 2.5 years now. I feel very, very, very strongly about having this as my plan.
However, I will be high risk. I am fat, for one, and I will most likely choose to go on daily blood thinner injections as a preventative during any pregnancy I might have, due to my mother's severe history of a blood clotting disorder (that ultimately took her life; I was born healthy thanks to Heparin). I understand that it's my choice to undergo that treatment and it pretty much excludes me from utilizing the alternative birthing center that is near Chicago. I'm not happy about that, but it doesn't compare to what I'd feel if I decided to forego the treatment and something happened to my baby. My blood pressure will also have to be watched closely.
So I will give birth in a hospital, which will mean I will have to do a lot of visiting and talking to make sure I'm working with the one that is most supportive. I also hope to have a doula. I understand that things CAN change in an instant; I'm not going to be ridiculous about it, but I'm also not going to accept being told that I have to stay in bed, birth on my back, be induced because a doctor needs to make it home in time for dinner.
Also, even more important to me than some of those, is what would be done with my baby immediately after birth. I watch (too many episodes of) A Baby Story and all the time, moms are shown their babies, and the baby is whisked off to be cleaned and tested. Now, if there is an emergency with the baby, all bets are off; but if my baby is healthy and screaming, it's going to be very clear that I want the baby in my arms immediately, clamping of the cord delayed until it stops pulsing, no immediate shots or eye ointment--I want him or her out of my vagina and on my chest, receiving a first meal, right away! I feel that many of the medical interventions that are common during birth can impede on these first few moments of bonding.
blog! thescenery.net
No matter what I decide, I know I definitely have to keep my mind open because things rarely go as planned in my life. I think that is great advice!
No matter what I decide, I know I definitely have to keep my mind open because things rarely go as planned in my life. I think that is great advice!
Maternal deaths are on the rise in the US. Considering that my own mother nearly died giving birth to me, I am taking no chances and I want to deliver in a place with a NICU.
Having said that, not all hospitals are the same. My birth story: I was supposed to be a home deliver in the mountains of North Carolina (damn hippies! lol) Everything was going great and then a few weeks before my expected deliver date I turned...and decided I would like to be born on Labor Day because I am ironic like that. Closest hospital was in the next state over, forever leaving me with a random Tenn place of birth in, of all things, a 7th Day Adventist hospital. I have no idea such things existed. I was delivered by emergency C section (in the name of Jesus, though my mom as she was slipping under tried to correct them and point out we were Jewish). And then, for reasons that were never entirely clear to me and I never wanted to look into, they refused to give her a blood transfusion. For a week. Finally, they relented as she was clearly not recovering on her own (thank god, turns out my father was some sort of family-targeting pedophile (if subsequent stories about later 1.2 sisters are to be believed) who THANKFULLY my mom left a few months after I was born saving me from whatever hell that would have left me.
Anyway, I have no issue with a midwife, doula etc at my bedside and will be consider one myself since I have no real family support in NYC but I sure as hell want to be in a hospital with professionals, emergency services, specialists and, yes, if it comes to that, some great drugs.
It's Friday, right?
I never think of anything about my life as 'interesting' until I start talking about it. Even then, I mean, what- the father thing? I never even found out about it until I was in my late 20s and it was hinted at in a letter from a family memeber on my father's side. When I asked about it, my mom told me about some things that he had said to her after I was born that made her get-the-fvck out of that marriage. Apparently, some other women he was with after her weren't so proactive.
Yes, and was originally part of the larger story of why it would have sucked if my mom had died in child birth, which nearly happened due to a complicated delivery.
Ummm....what?
OP - A few of my friends liked it, but knowing when I was pg with the girls that I had a 50/50 chance of a c-section, I opted not to watch it. I didn't want anything that would make me feel guilty about having a c-section.
They too said you need to keep an open mind when watching it.
Of course being born is a business. How do you expect me to pay for my... everything. You want me to deliver babies for free?
Wash that thang!
I saw it and have since given birth to my daughter. I went in with an open mind about whether or not I would have an epidural. I ended up having one (won't get into the details), but I will say that -- in my opinion -- having a drug-free birth does not equate to a "natural" birth. Having a vaginal birth does.
The epidural really helped me to enjoy my birth process and I wouldn't change it for anything.
DD born 6.13.11 at 37w5d
DS born 5.23.12 at 36w5d
BFP 6.9.13|heartbeat of 128bpm 7weeks|7.23.13 ultrasound revealed no heartbeat|natural m/c and d&c 7.25.13
DS born 5.20.14 at 38 weeks
All are welcome
I watched it and liked it. I think it's a good idea for all pregnant women to watch it, personally. That said, it didn't really change my mind on much. I hoped for a drug and intervention free labor, but didn't get it. Everything worked out great, though, and I wouldn't change it.
I think what is important about the documentary is that it encourages women to be advocates for their own healthcare. I think that's the bottom line. If your doctor and/or hospital pushes things on you that you don't want, ask questions, and stand firm if there is a safe alternative you prefer. Too many people blindly trust doctors. They aren't always concerned with what is best for you; sometimes they care more about what they are liable for if anything goes wrong.
Carina 12.28.2010 | Aurelia 9.23.12 | Chart - Round 3
I never said anything about pain meds. I said intervention. And yeah it was the hospital which is why I said I will use a different hospital next time.
DD born 6.13.11 at 37w5d
DS born 5.23.12 at 36w5d
BFP 6.9.13|heartbeat of 128bpm 7weeks|7.23.13 ultrasound revealed no heartbeat|natural m/c and d&c 7.25.13
DS born 5.20.14 at 38 weeks
All are welcome
Yes, yes, a million times yes.
Homebirth triples the risk of neonatal death.
And I love that we can say "twats" here.
I liked it because it gave the other side of the story. I feel like we hear so much about birth as a scary, traumatizing, emergency medical event and we don't hear that it can be done without all the bells and whistles. I really liked Ina May Gaskin's book as well--especially because she included situations in which the mother needed to be in a hospital.
Like PP, I would be interested in the reference that shows that home birth triples the rate of neonatal death. Can't say I've heard that one before.
FWIW, my LO was born in a hospital with a MW--seemed like the best of both worlds to me.
https://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378%2810%2900671-X/abstract
She's referring to the Wax study. If you Google it, you'll find a lot of criticism of the paper, for example their decision to omit the largest study in their meta-analysis when they calculated the neonatal mortality rate. That study found no increase in mortality and including it probably would have changed the results of the meta-analysis considerably. When that study was included in the perinatal mortality statistics, no increased mortality was found.
The Wax study found that even with the 3x increase in neonatal mortality, the overall death rate for home births was low, and mothers fared better in home births. There are also studies finding that home births have no increase in mortality rates so the issue is far from settled, since randomized control trials can't really be done on this topic.
Interesting! Citation?
They touch on it a little in this article from Nature:
https://www.nature.com/news/2011/110318/full/news.2011.162.html
You can also see in the full text of the Wax paper that they left that study out of their neonatal mortality analysis:
https://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(10)00671-X/fulltext
Here's the study in question:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-0528.2009.02175.x/abstract
Some people point out that since that study took place in another country, its results can't be extrapolated to US home births. That's a valid point to some extent, but I think it shows that home birth can be done safely and that integrating home birth into our system here in the US could improve outcomes and lower death rates.
Anyway my point here is just that neither side can really say definitively who is right, because of the methodological limitations of home birth studies. But even the Wax paper finds an overall low rate of infant death and better outcomes for women at home--so what does that tell us about how we can improve things for mothers and babies in hospitals as well as at home?
DD born 6.13.11 at 37w5d
DS born 5.23.12 at 36w5d
BFP 6.9.13|heartbeat of 128bpm 7weeks|7.23.13 ultrasound revealed no heartbeat|natural m/c and d&c 7.25.13
DS born 5.20.14 at 38 weeks
All are welcome
Agreed, it's truly unfortunate.
GL
I thought Wax included the de Jonge data? It's listed in Table I.
The rest of what I have to say (and I do think we're on the same page to a certain extent) will have to wait until tomorrow, though.
What I didn't like about the documentary (and I suppose the entire purpose of documentaries is propaganda, so this may be irrelevant) is the slander statements that had zero fact to back them up ... such as the fact that doctors push for babies to be delivered so they can get home for dinner.
At any rate, my OB and my hospital was great with my birth process. I decided when I wanted to push; I decided if/when I wanted drugs; they were open with me about an epidural and what it does for the body.
I think being informed is the key.
It does, except in the neonatal mortality statistic.
OK. Please forgive my use of caps here -- I swear I am not trying to yell, just trying to emphasize/break up a paragraph in an attempt to prevent tl;dr.
First, de Jonge. That paper's conclusion is that homebirth-with-midwife in the Netherlands has the same perinatal mortality rate as hospital-birth-with-midwife in the Netherlands. In other words, de Jonge compares midwives with midwives, and concludes that if you're giving birth with a midwife in the Netherlands, it doesn't matter whether you do it at home or in the hospital. However (and this is a big however), an even newer study suggests that Dutch midwives as a whole have a higher perinatal mortality rate than Dutch obstetricians. In fact, that study found that the perinatal mortality rate for LOW-risk women cared for by Dutch midwives is HIGHER than the same rate for HIGH-risk women cared for by Dutch obstetricians. Thus, the lesson to be learned from the Netherlands isn't that homebirth with a midwife is safe. It's that (1) obstetricians are safer than midwives (which goes to your claim that homebirth will "lower death rates," i.e., it certainly won't if the alternative is hospital birth with an obstetrician), but that (2) if you're giving birth with a [highly trained, competent] midwife, it doesn't matter whether you plan to do it at home or in a hospital.
Second, extrapolation. You've anticipated my can't-extrapolate-from-Netherlands-to-US argument, but I think an explanation will help here. It's not just that Netherlands is a different country. It's that Dutch midwives on the whole have WAY more training and competency than US midwives. (We could get into CNM versus DEM here, but I know you know the difference and I don't know whether anyone else cares, so I'll save it for another time.)
Third, lack of randomized trials. Isn't that kind of a red herring? Obviously it's completely unethical to randomly assign some women to give birth at home and others in a hospital. It's never going to happen. Are you really prepared to say that the issue isn't "settled" until a randomized trial takes place? And if so, then why cite de Jonge at all?
Fourth, "better outcomes" for women with homebirth. There were fewer interventions in homebirths, sure. Of course there were. Your garden-variety midwife can't perform a c-section, provide an epidural, etc.
Fifth, how we can improve things. I agree that many, many women feel their hospital births left something to be desired. However (and this is, again, a big however), subjective enjoyment and objective safety are orthogonal (i.e., completely unrelated) issues. For example, I was GBS+ with my daughter and was hooked up to an IV antibiotic when I got to the hospital to give birth. Did the IV, subjectively, suck? Kind of. But was the IV, objectively, safer for my daughter than, say, stuffing garlic up my vagoo? Yes, it was. I would have enjoyed giving birth more without the IV, but my daughter was safer with it.
D'oh, I don't know where I'm going with "fifth" here. Teach me to have a second glass of wine. There was something else about how I wished wholeheartedly that I could have had something to drink during labor instead of ice chips, and something else about fecally-contaminated lukewarm kiddie pools in one's living room, but I dunno.
Hee. Wine.