- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
Babies: 0 - 3 Months
Options
I think I will do the delayed CIO ( whatever its called)
My Lo is the worst napper. he doesnt fall asleep unless Im holding him and walking around in the house. It takes him around 30 min walking around to fall asleep.
I dont have a problem with that, the problem is that I threw my back out this weekend, and holding my 16 lbs baby walking around its very painful. This morning I was in tears trying to hold him for 30 min walking around.
So Im thinking about putting him in his crib and checking on him every 5 min, then 10, etc. I know he is too young for this, 10 weeks old, and Im not trying to be a bad mom, I just can not do it until my back heals.Do you have any advice for me?
This is not about sleep training my LO. I know he is way to young for any sleep training. Im trying to find a SAFE way for both of us to put him to sleep. My husband is away for work and wont be back until tomorrow night. I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning and probably an MRI later in the week. My doctor said on the phone to take pain meds until then. I have taken Tylenol and its not working but I dont want to take anything stronger because I dont want to be drowsy taking care of my LO.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: I think I will do the delayed CIO ( whatever its called)
I tried the stroller yesterday, it didnt work. It was comical though because both my cat and my dog kept following me around. I think that put them to sleep, but not my baby. He doesnt like the stoller and car seat very much. He cries the whole time while Im driving.
I called my pediatrician yesterday, he said to put him in his crib, close the door and let him CIO. I think pediatricians are very hard on babies sometimes.
I called my pediatrician yesterday, he said to put him in his crib, close the door and let him CIO. I think pediatricians are very hard on babies sometimes.
WOW -- my jaw is on the floor, even CIO experts don't recommend doing CIO until at least 6 months. WOW.
Have you tried putting baby in a swing or bouncy to sleep?
Thank you. Im going to google this book and see if I can find any quick info to use today. Its going to take a few days before I get the book if I order it today.
Delayed CIO is recommended for babies that are 4+ months old at the very earliest. Your LO is way too young for any kind of CIO yet.
I have a bad back, and it sucks, but part of being a mom is putting your LOs needs first. Sorry.
Really? I didnt know that.
From this post, it seems you may have forgotten.
I don't "have a bad back"..I haven't been able to sit on the toilet without supporting myself in 15 different places since Sunday night. Its extremely painful and not safe holding him walking around for half an hour. Thank you for your lecture but this wouldn't be a matter of whose needs come first if I accidentally drop him on the floor.
It doesnt really matter what the reason is. You are not supposed to do any sort of CIO, even delayed CIO, at your child's age. It is not age appropriate for 2 months old. Period.
FTR, I injured my back like that with a LO over 20lbs and I was 6 months pregnant at the time so there was zero pain medication I could take. I would never put him in his crib to let him CIO for any length of time, and he was a WHOLE lot older than 2 months. I sucked it up.
Thank you. DH is in Albania, Europe for work. He was due back on Friday, but he is trying to get everything done there, and he might come back tomorrow night, depending on how his work goes today. Its a long flight to Philadelphia.
Good for you. You win the "best mom"award. I'll send you a cookie.
Since your are such a great mom, do you have any advice on how I can help my LO to fall asleep without dropping him on the floor and causing permanent damage????
Please don't take this horrible advice.
For the love of god people, if you're going to want to do CIO with your child, that's fine. Open a book before you do it though.
If you're talking about "delayed CIO", you're thinking of the Ferber method. In his book, he states that the absolute youngest you should do this is 4 months old, but many babies are not developmentally ready until 6+ months old. It is not developmentally appropriate for a 2 month old no matter what the circumstances.
It's not about being the "best mom". It's about doing what's right for your child.
To give you tips on what to do, would he sleep snuggled up in your bed in your arms? In a swing? Swaddled? Have you tried a warm sheet that has your smell in his crib? Rocking him in a rocking chair with a white noise machine? Have a family member/friend/sitter come over and help you until you can get to a dr.
Do anything BUT putting him in his crib and leaving the room for 5/10 minute increments. How about that?
Will all due respect, ma'am, it can't possibly be horrible advice if so many pediatricians, who went to school for many many years, recommend it. For me personally, I'm not a fan of CIO and hope to never use it but I'm not in her situation and certainly can't judge her. You might want to get a step stool for that high horse you're riding on.
I have to say, you seem determined to do Feber/CIO so I'm not sure why you're asking. Some of us HAVE offered good advice that is not being replied to. Are you going to try those things?
swing
bouncer
sheet that smells like you in the crib
what about hiring a mother's helper since DH is gone?
any friends or family nearby?
I'm just trying to point out that there are a lot more options before you go to any form of CIO 2+ months before it's recommended by experts.
swing - he starts crying after a few minutes. I keep giving him the paci and he still cries. I tried this morning to sit on the floor next to his swing, so he could see. He didnt stop crying until I picked him up and walked around.
bouncer- same
sheet that smells like you in the crib- I havent tried the sheet, but last night I took him to my bed and laid next to him. He cried, I kept giving the paci, he stopped for a few seconds, started crying again..until I got up after an hour of this and rocked him to sleep standing up.
what about hiring a mother's helper since DH is gone? Thats something I havent done. Where would I find anybody to hire?
any friends or family nearby? My mom came last night to help for a few hrs after work. That was nice. She will come again tonight after work.
I totally agree!! I just felt like Im at the end of the rope and that is the last option I have today. I have tried alot of ways to soothe him to sleep during the 10 weeks and I just gave up to walking around holding him. For weeks and weeks the walking around has been what works for him. I should have listed the things Ive tried on my original post though. Im sorry.
Pediatricians dont learn stuff like that in school. They learn how to diagnose medical conditions. They are not experts on sleep.
There are medical professionals who are experts on sleep that write books on topics (like CIO) and the way to utilize them correctly because they've done years of research in that field, unlike a pedi. Clearly those people's advice carries more weight than a pedi who believes in old school methods that have been disproven, does it not? My pedi said to let my infant sleep with a blanket-does that make her right?
Have you tried the happiest baby on the block techniques? Some more info:
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/514376
Also, tylenol is useless for back pain. Take something like ibuprofen. Most OTC medication contains 200mg-you can safely take 1000mg every 4 hours for severe pain. If after that the pain is still so severe that you cant carry your baby, call your dr for something stronger. I took percocet and took care of my baby while recovering from a c-section. I think taking a stronger pain med if you need it to get through the day is a WHOLE lot better than leaving your baby to CIO and breaking that trust he has in you.
If you're still in so much pain after all that it would be dangerous to carry LO (which I think is bull, as my dad was carrying around my 25lb baby a day before major reconstructive back surgery, but whatever) then lie in bed, and let lo cry until he falls asleep while being held in your arms, but dont abandon him in his own room alone.
Ask friends, family, neighbors, anyone with kids for a recommendation on a mother's helper. Even the teenager down the block can work. You'll be there with them anyhow, so you don't have to worry about trusting them completely alone with LO.
I'm sorry KC_13 is being so ridiculously mean. We all hit those walls of frustration with an issue. You came here for help, not a condescending lecture. I just hope when she needs help she's treated with the same respect she shows others.
I'm not being mean-I'm being honest with her. She didnt come in asking for advice. She said she was going to do CIO and gave some lame excuse of why it was necessary. It looks like she wanted someone to tell her it was ok to do. It is not.
On my OP it says :
So Im thinking about putting him in his crib and checking on him every 5 min, then 10, etc. I know he is too young for this, 10 weeks old, and Im not trying to be a bad mom, I just can not do it until my back heals.Do you have any advice for me?
This is not about sleep training my LO. I know he is way to young for any sleep training. Im trying to find a SAFE way for both of us to put him to sleep. My husband is away for work and wont be back until tomorrow night. I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow morning and probably an MRI later in the week. My doctor said on the phone to take pain meds until then. I have taken Tylenol and its not working but I dont want to take anything stronger because I dont want to be drowsy taking care of my LO.
The happiest on the block works really good for calming him if he is fussing, but not to soothe him to sleep.
I will take a percocet, I still have almost the whole bottle they gave me after my c-section. Thank you
Thank you.It did help. I called my friends, and 2 of them can take turns tonight and come help me. And my mom is also coming. One of the friends will stay overnight.
I think someone else already had suggestions on how to find a helper -- but really I would call friends or family, a neighbor, etc. to come help first if you can. You will still be there so the person won't be totally alone.
You said your DH will be home tomorow I think, right? I hope you can get someone there will you fulltime until he's back! Also ditto taking your c/s meds and I hope they help your pain.
That last paragraph wasnt included in your OP. You titled a post "I think I will do CIO" then described how you would do it. I think if you got overwhelming support that CIO was ok, you'd be doing it tonight, no doubt.
If you truly wanted to find other no-cry options to get your LO to sleep, why did you word your post that way? If you said "I hurt my back, I need to find other tips to put my LO to sleep besides walking him" clearly the response would have been different.
I suppose it's a moot point, since you seem like you're going to take something for the pain instead. I hope your back feels better soon-I know back pain sucks.
To OP: We have problems going to sleep as well, but I wouldn't let him CIO alone in his crib... I usually have to walk him to sleep, but sometimes I lay down on the bed, put him tummy to tummy and gently pat his butt just enough to kind of bounce him towards my chin and back... sometimes he passes out in 5 min, sometimes he cries and calms down but he always knows I'm there... Sometimes he just wants to nurse (well bottle feed in our case) to sleep---he only eats like an ounce or two...
ETA: maybe try a sling once your back is better... they help me keep baby asleep since I don't have to move him to a napping spot... Also, if you have a high needs child: they won't actually cry themselves to sleep and will actually continue to signal that they need something and will cry louder (DS does this if I wait to long)
Actually just b/c they went to school for many years and recommend it doesn't mean it's necessarily right... and CIO originally started in the late 1900s because parents were told they were spoiling their children and letting themselves be controlled....Plus the only reason they stop crying is bc you're not responding to theur signal....
Your baby may not die, but there are more things than dying...
Additionally, there are pedis who disagree very strongly and here are some of the reasons why:
Cry it out (CIO): 10 reasons why it is not for us
Intuitively and instinctively, the cry it out (CIO) method (also known as sleep training or ferberizing or controlled crying) of getting a baby to sleep is not something I ever felt comfortable with. And as I did research on infant sleep, I learned about what normal infant sleep is and I also learned more about the reasons why the CIO method is harmful. There are numerous scientific and emotional reasons why we have chosen not to let our babies cry it out, which I have summarized below.
1. Cry it out can cause harmful changes to babies? brains
Babies cry. They cry to let us know that they need something. And when we don?t respond to those cries, it causes them undue amounts of stress. Science has shown that stress in infancy can result in enduring negative impacts on the brain. Prolonged cries in infants causes increased blood pressure in the brain, elevates stress hormones, obstructs blood from draining out of the brain, and decreases oxygenation to the brain. Excessive crying results in an oversensitive stress system (likened to a faulty burglar alarm in one book) that can lead to a fear of being alone, separation anxiety, panic attacks and addictions. Harvard researchers found that it makes them more susceptible to stress as adults and changes the nervous system so that they are overly sensitive to future trauma. Chronic stress in infancy can also lead to an over-active adrenaline system, which results in the child using increased aggression, impulsivity, and violence. Another study showed that persistent crying episodes in infancy led to a 10 times greater chance of the child having ADHD, resulting in poor school performance and antisocial behaviour. However, if you consistently soothe your child?s distress and take any anguished crying seriously, highly effective stress response systems are established in the brain that allow your child to cope with stress later in life.
2. Cry it out can result in decreased intellectual, emotional and social development
At an American Academy of Pediatrics meeting, infant developmental specialist Dr. Michael Lewis presented research findings demonstrating that ?the single most important influence of a child?s intellectual development is the responsiveness of the mother to the cues of her baby.? More specifically, other studies have found that babies whose cries are ignored do not develop healthy intellectual and social skills, that they have an average IQ 9 points lower at age 5, they show poor fine motor development, show more difficulty controlling their emotions, and take longer to become independent as children (stay clingy for longer).
3. Cry it out can result in a detached baby
Researchers have shown that although leaving a baby to cry it out does often lead to the cries eventually stopping, the cries do not stop because the child is content or the problem has been alleviated. Rather, they stop because the baby has given up hope that a caregiver will respond and provide comfort. This results in a detached baby. Detached children are less responsive, appear to be depressed or ?not there? and often lack empathy.
4. Cry it out is harmful to the parent-child relationship
A child that is left to cry it out is less likely to turn to the parents in times of need. Being attended to as a baby is the most basic of needs and if a child learns at that point that she can count on her parents to respond to her needs, then she will also turn to them later in life when she needs their support. But I worry that if I leave my children to cry it out, then they will not see the point in reaching out to us if they have problems later in life and could try to deal with serious issues like bullying, drug addictions, teenage pregnancy, gambling problems, or flunking out of school on their own or turn to peers. Unfortunately, those problems are often too big for a teenager to be left to deal with alone or with peers and it can have disastrous results ranging from making poor decisions all the way to committing suicide out of a feeling of hopelessness.
5. Cry it out can make children insecure
Children whose caregivers are not consistently responsive and sensitive, often become insecure. Long-term studies have shown that secure individuals are more likely to be outgoing, popular, well-adjusted, compassionate, and altruistic. As adults, secure individuals are likely to be comfortable depending on others, can develop close attachments, and trust their partners. Insecure individuals, on the other hand, tend to be unsettled in their relationships, displaying anxiety (manifesting as possessiveness, jealousy, and clinginess) or avoidance (manifesting as mistrust and a reluctance to depend on others). Parents that use the cry it out method often do so because they are afraid that their children are becoming too dependent. However, an abundance of research shows that regular physical contact, reassurance, and prompt responses to distress in infancy and childhood results in secure and confident adults who are better able to form functional relationships.
6. Cry it out often doesn?t work at all
Some babies will not give in. They are resilient or stubborn enough that they refuse to believe that their parents could be so cruel as to leave them to cry to sleep. So instead of whimpering a bit and then drifting off to sleep as some supposed sleep experts would have you believe happens, they end up sobbing and sobbing and sobbing for hours on end. Some end up vomiting. Many end up shaking so hard and become so distraught that once their parents realize that CIO is not going to work, the baby is shaking uncontrollably and hiccuping, too distressed to sleep and too distraught to be calmed down even by a loving parent.
7. Even if cry it out does ?work?, parents often have to do it over and over again
I can?t imagine putting my child through one or several nights of inconsolable crying to get her to go to sleep and I certainly can?t imagine having to do it over and over again. However, that is the reality for many parents. I hear people tell me that they always let their child cry for thirty minutes to go to sleep. Or that they have to start the CIO sleep training process all over again after each round of teething, each growth spurt, each developmental milestone.
8. Cry it out is disrespectful of my child?s needs
So-called sleep trainers will tell you that after a certain age, babies do not have any more needs at night. Some claim this is after a few short weeks, others after a few months, others after a year. Regardless of the age that is assigned to that message, to me it seems wrong. I?m an adult and yet there are days when I need someone else to comfort me. If I?ve had a really stressful week at work, if I?ve had a fight with someone that is important to me, if I?ve lost a loved one, then I need to be comforted. But how would I feel and what would it do to our relationship if my husband closed the door and walked out of the room and let me ?cry it out? myself? I?m an adult and yet there are nights when I am so parched that I need a glass of water or I am so hungry that I need a snack. I?m not going to die if those needs are not met, but I am going to physically uncomfortable and unable to sleep soundly. If I were to let my child CIO, it would be like saying that his needs are not important and that to me is disrespectful. To quote Dr. William Sears on the sleep trainers, ?Parents let me caution you. Difficult problems in child rearing do not have easy answers. Children are too valuable and their needs too important to be made victims of cheap, shallow advice?.
9. Deep sleep from cry it out is often a result of trauma
Babies who are left to cry it out do sometimes fall into a deep sleep after they finally drop off. And their parents and sleep trainers will hail this as a success of the CIO method. However, babies and young children often sleep deeply after experiencing trauma. Therefore, the deep sleep that follows CIO shouldn?t be seen as proof that it works. Rather, it should be seen as a disturbing shortcoming.
10. Our World Needs More Love
Rates of depression are skyrocketing. Violent and senseless crimes are on the rise. As human beings, we need to spend more time being there for each other, showing compassion, nurturing our children. Learning that you can?t count on your parents to be there when you need them is a tough lesson to learn that early in life and can be a root of many of the social problems we are facing today. I want to give my kids every chance possible of escaping depression and staying away from violence. And I?m convinced that nurturing them and responding to their needs at night, as I do during the day, is the first step in the right direction.
Those are our reasons for not using the cry it out method. What are yours?
Do you need some gentle sleep tips? See Gentle Baby and Toddler Sleep Tips
Sources:
The following sources were used in the development of this post:
Note: Please note that not all of these sources look specifically at crying it out. Some of them look at the risks of excessive crying in general. It is my opinion that excessive crying is excessive crying, whether it happens at night or not. Also, as I discussed in my follow-up post Cry it Out (CIO): Is it harmful or helpful? and Another Academic Weighs in on CIO there is no evidence that cry it out is safe, despite what its supporters will tell you.
ETA: edited for clarity
I wasn't trying to implicate that you were for or against it and I'm not trying to judge you or the OP... I am merely pointing out a flaw in the logic of "my pedi recommends it so they must be right" and give reasons why... I apologize if you feel like I was judging you but that wasn't my intention...
I do however think that the OP knows her LO is too young as she states this in her original post...I did offer another suggestion along with other PPs
Your percocet sounds like a good idea to me. I took those after my c/s and they didn't bother me as far as making me tired or loopy or anything.
Also, as far as soothing him to sleep, will he sleep on you? We have one boy who can be difficult to soothe to sleep, but he will sleep if he is stretched out on my belly, chest to chest, while I am laying flat on my back. It sucks because then I can't sleep, but at least he's quiet and not upset.
Thank you all for the ideas and time you took to help.
I laid on my bed with Lo and did the cry-pacifier game for awhile. Finally he fell asleep after 80 min. Poor little thing was looking at me like "what, we are not walking around?".
I dont own any books about baby sleep, because I was not planning on doing any kind of training for a while, so after your posts I realized I have not done my full research on this issue. I do believe though that they have different methods because people are different and nothing works for everybody. It depends on what you are comfortable with. For now I will try to do the best I can to comfort my baby as much as I can. If he ends up crying for a few minutes, its not the end of the world. He cried for half hour last week when I was driving and couldnt do anything about it.
Thank you again.