Poor kid. Re: E from A's room

Mysterious_wife · September 2011

The little guy got sent home again today. I really do feel bad for him. I hope we are doing the right thing by reporting this to the right agencies. My goal is for them to get him help. To be this angry and hurtful at a young age, there has got to be something wrong. I want to bring him home and hug him.

HappyAardvark · September 2011

What a crummy situation all around. I'm sorry for everyone involved

BlueEyes313 · September 2011

What a lousy spot to be in. Better to address his issues now then to wait and have another child get seriously injured! Good luck!

Excitedtostart · September 2011

Poor kiddo. Sounds like he needs help though, and better to get help now than to be a 10 or 16 year old with the same problem, only worse because he's bigger.

MaybeMore · September 2011

Oh, PLEASE. The kid is just a brat who hasn't been trained to behave.

Kids don't hit because they need "help." Kids hit because they have not been disciplined not to. "Angry and hurtful?" What a joke. He has BAD PARENTS. That's it. The end. Your kids bites after the age of three? Hits after the age of 2.5? There's nothing wrong with HIM--there's something wrong with YOU. His parents just plain fell down on the job. Most likely, the problem is that he HAS been hugged--when he's bad. And possibly ignored when he's good.

He hits because he has always been allowed to get away with it. And instead of the school telling the parents that they need to step up to the plate, they're going to have him analyzed and diagnosed so hopefully he'll be drugged into a state of general compliance and they won't have to deal with him anymore.

"No psychological paradigm exists that will explain the antisocial behavior of the toddler. How is it that a twenty-month-old who has never seen an act of violence or heard one described, who has been the recipient of nothing but love, slaps his mother across the face one day because she has told him he cannot have a cookie? How is it that a two-year-old who has been treated generously by everyone in his life is malevolently selfish? Why does a toddler who has never been screamed at scream at his parents when they do not obey him? I am not describing the behavior of just two toddlers, but the behavior of all toddlers. I repeat: toddlers are criminals-in-the-making. Behavioral theory--which posits that all behavior is learned--does not suffice to explain their misbehavior. Humanistic psychology says human beings are by nature good, so we can toss that out the window with a big guffaw. ... The only explanation is that humans are born this way; it is in their nature to be cruel, to be criminal, to be Lords and Lordettes of the Flies.

"Parents who understand that badness is the natural state of the child will not be knocked off balance when the Demon Spawn awakes. They will simply look at one another and shrug their shoulders, realizing and accepting that the honeymoon is over. Prior to the sea change, they were merely caretakers, concerned primarily with making their child feel welcomed and wanted.... Now, however, their real job--the task of raising Master or Mistress Bad-to-theBone out of a state of narcissistic savagery into a state of pro-social civility--begins. From this point on, parents are exorcists. Their job is to exorcise those demons that can be pried loose and help their child learn to control those that refuse to let go. The end result is a child who willingly walks the path toward good citizenship,"

--John Rosemond, with whom I heartily agree

Also by him:

Parenting Axiom One:

No matter how good a parent you are, your child is still capable, on any given day, of doing something despicable, disgusting,a nd depraved.

#2:

Parents who accept Axiom #1 will have a more relaxed, happy, and playful parenthood than parents who do not. Their children will also be much easier to discipline.

#3:

The most obedient children are also the happiest children. (This is also true of adults by the way.)

armandos_girl · September 2011

MaybeMore:
Oh, PLEASE. The kid is just a brat who hasn't been trained to behave.
Kids don't hit because they need "help." Kids hit because they have not been disciplined not to. "Angry and hurtful?" What a joke. He has BAD PARENTS. That's it. The end. Your kids bites after the age of three? Hits after the age of 2.5? There's nothing wrong with HIM--there's something wrong with YOU. His parents just plain fell down on the job. Most likely, the problem is that he HAS been hugged--when he's bad. And possibly ignored when he's good.
He hits because he has always been allowed to get away with it. And instead of the school telling the parents that they need to step up to the plate, they're going to have him analyzed and diagnosed so hopefully he'll be drugged into a state of general compliance and they won't have to deal with him anymore.
"No psychological paradigm exists that will explain the antisocial behavior of the toddler. How is it that a twenty-month-old who has never seen an act of violence or heard one described, who has been the recipient of nothing but love, slaps his mother across the face one day because she has told him he cannot have a cookie? How is it that a two-year-old who has been treated generously by everyone in his life is malevolently selfish? Why does a toddler who has never been screamed at scream at his parents when they do not obey him? I am not describing the behavior of just two toddlers, but the behavior of all toddlers. I repeat: toddlers are criminals-in-the-making. Behavioral theory--which posits that all behavior is learned--does not suffice to explain their misbehavior. Humanistic psychology says human beings are by nature good, so we can toss that out the window with a big guffaw. ... The only explanation is that humans are born this way; it is in their nature to be cruel, to be criminal, to be Lords and Lordettes of the Flies.
"Parents who understand that badness is the natural state of the child will not be knocked off balance when the Demon Spawn awakes. They will simply look at one another and shrug their shoulders, realizing and accepting that the honeymoon is over. Prior to the sea change, they were merely caretakers, concerned primarily with making their child feel welcomed and wanted.... Now, however, their real job--the task of raising Master or Mistress Bad-to-theBone out of a state of narcissistic savagery into a state of pro-social civility--begins. From this point on, parents are exorcists. Their job is to exorcise those demons that can be pried loose and help their child learn to control those that refuse to let go. The end result is a child who willingly walks the path toward good citizenship,"
--John Rosemond, with whom I heartily agree
Also by him:
Parenting Axiom One:
No matter how good a parent you are, your child is still capable, on any given day, of doing something despicable, disgusting,a nd depraved.
#2:
Parents who accept Axiom #1 will have a more relaxed, happy, and playful parenthood than parents who do not. Their children will also be much easier to discipline.
#3:
The most obedient children are also the happiest children. (This is also true of adults by the way.)

Um, wow. Just wow. Indifferent

For the record, I hug the shiit out my kids. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to give Gabe a timeout and I've never even thought about spanking him. He started saying "Please", "Thank You" and now "Sorry" without prompting from me.

Maybe this kid has bad parents who never discipline him. Or maybe there is something else going on at home - maybe he's being abused and acting out at school is how he's trying to communicate that.

Nah, that couldn't possibly it. Let's just decide that he has bad parents and write him off. Confused

Emie28 · September 2011

No, no, no Armandos, the entire world is exactly how MaybeMore sees it, based on her own personal experiences. There is no way things could be any different.

Plus, look at that! She took the time to write that huge wall of text quoting, none other than THE John Rosemond. She sure must know what she's talking about!

How lucky we are that you have decided to bring all of your wisdom to so many posts here on BOTB, MaybeMore.

armandos_girl · September 2011

Emie28:
How lucky we are that you have decided to bring all of your wisdom to so many posts here on BOTB, MaybeMore.

Yes, because obviously we don't know what the fvck we're doing when it comes to parenting. We should all feel sorry for each other's children. No wait, that would be coddling them and we can't have that.

MaybeMore · September 2011

My kids are well-behaved. That appears to be the minority on this board. When a bunch of children are playing and one of them starts to cry, I don't get up, because I can have the confidence of knowing that my kids weren't involved. I've had that with my son since he was 4, and I've just gained that with my daughter. How many of you can say the same? I don't mean, BTW, that it "wasn't my kid's fault," I mean that my child was not involved in any way because my children don't make other kids cry, and they know how to stand up to and walk away from a bully so that it just about never escalates.

When I teach, whether it is in a classroom or a nursery, tutoring or guiding 200 campers through the day, the children are well-behaved. I've never had a "problem child" even when dealing with the same children other adults haven't been able to cope with.

Oh, and kids adore me. I went through a stage where I grew out my hair, and there was a horde of little girls I taught who declared that they would no longer cut my hair to look like me. Their mothers were amused--if somewhat annoyed by having more hair to style every day! I can't count the number of times that a parent has come up to me with a bemused expression and told me that his or her child insisted on including me in his prayers nightly.

Frequently, my son tells me, "I think you're the best mother in the world, even when I'm in trouble. You want to make me smart, and you want to make me a good person."

Out of the blue last week, he defined abusive parents as those who don't make their children behave. "Do they WANT their kids to be bad people?" He also said bad parents are those who don't intellectually challenge their kids or expect them to be self-reliant.

My kids are good because I understand that they can be very bad, and it isn't because they were "traumatized" but because they are children. I don't freak out when it happens. I don't yell and rage or privately wallow in guilt. I just deal with the situation.

As far as my comment about the kid getting plenty of hugs--in the worst cases of misbehavior that I've seen at that age, the parents unwittingly ignore their child when he's being good because he doesn't crop up on their radar, and they hug him, fuss over him, and spoil him when he's bad. Which is pretty much the opposite of what they should. It isn't intentional, but it trains in bad behavior, which takes years and years of doing the right thing to undo.

It could be, however, that he is simply the center of the parents' world all the time--that he's just plain spoiled and not ignored.

In my daughter's dance class, it took all of three minutes for the uncontrolled brat to become perfectly obvious. In 45 minutes, she made no fewer than three other little girls cry--of course, picking the smallest ones who were new to the room. My DD is TINY, and so of course she was targeted. When the girl yanked on her dance skirt, by DD smoothed it, glared at her, and stepped away. When she tried to "tickle" her with inappropriate vigor and obnoxiousness, my DD folded her arms and went to stand next to the teacher--and proceeded to forget all about the little bully and have a good time the rest of the lesson. One of the other children the bully went after sobbed uncontrollably for a good ten minutes after she was basically flattened. That child isn't in need of more affection. She's in need of a firm hand. Love disciplines. Too many parents ignore that.

The chances that he's deeply emotionally scarred at three are next to none. I used to babysit two children who were adopted out of foster care. The younger one had scars on her face from her mother's boyfriend putting out cigarettes on her. The older one remembered watching his mother blow her brains out. THAT is scarred. But guess what? Even though their early life really, really, REALLY sucked, they were mostly well behaved. They had some deep seated insecurities that caused them to push boundaries harder than other children, but once the boundaries held firm, they were intensely relieved and reassured by it. The little girl lost her mind once and had a fullscale meltdown over pretty much nothing (I got hit in the face with a fork, and she went crazy when I sent her to her room and hit and kicked), but once she realized that I, too, would enforce the rules, she became much, much more relaxed and happy. I babysat them an average of 5 or 6 hours at a time every other Saturday for a year (before I graduated), so I got to know them pretty well. Except for that one incident and some push back, I had almost no issues with them. Kids, even scarred ones, are happiest with clear boundaries and expectations. THAT is what is missing from this terror's life.

You are pretty clueless if you've never been around actual neglected or abused children. A three-year-old isn't "trying to communicate abuse." That idea is idiotic. A three-year-old who is honestly abused is frightened of other children and adults. He doesn't act like the center of the world and hit people when everything doesn't go his way. He may steal and lie--plenty of other children do that, too, who aren't abused--but he doesn't make himself into a spectacle. He doesn't act with the confidence that he WILL get his way. Abused children do *more* often than non-abused children become abusive adults. But they don't think they are the emperors of the classroom.

By the way, my husband was physically abused for years. (Yes, I realized that it happens in nice middle-class families, too. His father was a professor.) I've worked with abused kids, and my mother used to teach a self-contained special ed class in a low SES area where a LOT of the kids pretty much lived in borderline abusive situations--as in, it's time to report the Williamses again because she's stopped feeding her kids again. So I'm not talking out of some airy-fairy theoretical world. I'm talking about real experiences in real life.

Emie28 · September 2011

MaybeMore:
My kids are well-behaved. That appears to be the minority on this board. When a bunch of children are playing and one of them starts to cry, I don't get up, because I can have the confidence of knowing that my kids weren't involved. I've had that with my son since he was 4, and I've just gained that with my daughter. How many of you can say the same? I don't mean, BTW, that it "wasn't my kid's fault," I mean that my child was not involved in any way because my children don't make other kids cry, and they know how to stand up to and walk away from a bully so that it just about never escalates.
When I teach, whether it is in a classroom or a nursery, tutoring or guiding 200 campers through the day, the children are well-behaved. I've never had a "problem child" even when dealing with the same children other adults haven't been able to cope with.
Oh, and kids adore me. I went through a stage where I grew out my hair, and there was a horde of little girls I taught who declared that they would no longer cut my hair to look like me. Their mothers were amused--if somewhat annoyed by having more hair to style every day! I can't count the number of times that a parent has come up to me with a bemused expression and told me that his or her child insisted on including me in his prayers nightly.
Frequently, my son tells me, "I think you're the best mother in the world, even when I'm in trouble. You want to make me smart, and you want to make me a good person."
Out of the blue last week, he defined abusive parents as those who don't make their children behave. "Do they WANT their kids to be bad people?" He also said bad parents are those who don't intellectually challenge their kids or expect them to be self-reliant.
My kids are good because I understand that they can be very bad, and it isn't because they were "traumatized" but because they are children. I don't freak out when it happens. I don't yell and rage or privately wallow in guilt. I just deal with the situation.
As far as my comment about the kid getting plenty of hugs--in the worst cases of misbehavior that I've seen at that age, the parents unwittingly ignore their child when he's being good because he doesn't crop up on their radar, and they hug him, fuss over him, and spoil him when he's bad. Which is pretty much the opposite of what they should. It isn't intentional, but it trains in bad behavior, which takes years and years of doing the right thing to undo.
It could be, however, that he is simply the center of the parents' world all the time--that he's just plain spoiled and not ignored.
In my daughter's dance class, it took all of three minutes for the uncontrolled brat to become perfectly obvious. In 45 minutes, she made no fewer than three other little girls cry--of course, picking the smallest ones who were new to the room. My DD is TINY, and so of course she was targeted. When the girl yanked on her dance skirt, by DD smoothed it, glared at her, and stepped away. When she tried to "tickle" her with inappropriate vigor and obnoxiousness, my DD folded her arms and went to stand next to the teacher--and proceeded to forget all about the little bully and have a good time the rest of the lesson. One of the other children the bully went after sobbed uncontrollably for a good ten minutes after she was basically flattened. That child isn't in need of more affection. She's in need of a firm hand. Love disciplines. Too many parents ignore that.
The chances that he's deeply emotionally scarred at three are next to none. I used to babysit two children who were adopted out of foster care. The younger one had scars on her face from her mother's boyfriend putting out cigarettes on her. The older one remembered watching his mother blow her brains out. THAT is scarred. But guess what? Even though their early life really, really, REALLY sucked, they were mostly well behaved. They had some deep seated insecurities that caused them to push boundaries harder than other children, but once the boundaries held firm, they were intensely relieved and reassured by it. The little girl lost her mind once and had a fullscale meltdown over pretty much nothing (I got hit in the face with a fork, and she went crazy when I sent her to her room and hit and kicked), but once she realized that I, too, would enforce the rules, she became much, much more relaxed and happy. I babysat them an average of 5 or 6 hours at a time every other Saturday for a year (before I graduated), so I got to know them pretty well. Except for that one incident and some push back, I had almost no issues with them. Kids, even scarred ones, are happiest with clear boundaries and expectations. THAT is what is missing from this terror's life.
You are pretty clueless if you've never been around actual neglected or abused children. A three-year-old isn't "trying to communicate abuse." That idea is idiotic. A three-year-old who is honestly abused is frightened of other children and adults. He doesn't act like the center of the world and hit people when everything doesn't go his way. He may steal and lie--plenty of other children do that, too, who aren't abused--but he doesn't make himself into a spectacle. He doesn't act with the confidence that he WILL get his way. Abused children do *more* often than non-abused children become abusive adults. But they don't think they are the emperors of the classroom.
By the way, my husband was physically abused for years. (Yes, I realized that it happens in nice middle-class families, too. His father was a professor.) I've worked with abused kids, and my mother used to teach a self-contained special ed class in a low SES area where a LOT of the kids pretty much lived in borderline abusive situations--as in, it's time to report the Williamses again because she's stopped feeding her kids again. So I'm not talking out of some airy-fairy theoretical world. I'm talking about real experiences in real life.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the times you were able to display some brevity, you proved yourself to be a sanctimonious ass, so no one is going to read these novels you keep writing.

You are a better parent, teacher, doctor, and all around human being than everyone here. Your kids are also super well-behaved and perfect. All of this has been noted. Your work here is done.

Thanks for visiting!

Mysterious_wife · September 2011

Wow. I guess I can't have sympathy for the children in my child's life. I guess I should go around and start busting ass when they hit my kid.

BTW no one said the kid would be medicated in a daze. THere are other forms of help out there. It could be a parenting class to teach how to properly discipline a child. It could be occupation therapy for the child. It could be family therapy. There are millions of forms of help.

leslie13510 · September 2011

Mysterious_wife:

Wow. I guess I can't have sympathy for the children in my child's life. I guess I should go around and start busting ass when they hit my kid.

BTW no one said the kid would be medicated in a daze. THere are other forms of help out there. It could be a parenting class to teach how to properly discipline a child. It could be occupation therapy for the child. It could be family therapy. There are millions of forms of help.

Don't even try MW. Clearly you are not, and will never be, as perfect as she is. I mean really, have you ever had little girls refusing to cut their hair because of you? No? I didn't think so. Not perfect enough to argue with Saint Momma up there.

greenclown · September 2011

I will admit that I didn't read 75% of MaybeMore's novellas, but holy hell.

I did see the part about how the norm here is for us to have badly behaving children. Seeing how most of the kids here are babies, I'm not sure how that is possible. And as for the older kids, I can think of one that sounds like a handful, but other than that, I don't think I've ever noticed that anyone has a bad kid.

DrBeepersWife · September 2011

greenclown:

I will admit that I didn't read 75% of MaybeMore's novellas, but holy hell.

I did see the part about how the norm here is for us to have badly behaving children. Seeing how most of the kids here are babies, I'm not sure how that is possible. And as for the older kids, I can think of one that sounds like a handful, but other than that, I don't think I've ever noticed that anyone has a bad kid.

Maybe we should bust out the "baby spanker" aka back scratcher.

Whatever happened to that blog?

ValentineBB · September 2011

greenclown:
I will admit that I didn't read 75% of MaybeMore's novellas, but holy hell.
I did see the part about how the norm here is for us to have badly behaving children. Seeing how most of the kids here are babies, I'm not sure how that is possible. And as for the older kids, I can think of one that sounds like a handful, but other than that, I don't think I've ever noticed that anyone has a bad kid.

Just yesterday, Sadie roughed up a 6 month old for his lunch money. True story. And I thought BOTB stood for Badass Ornery Terrible Babies. Sh*t. Looks like I'm on the wrong board.

greenclown · September 2011

ValentineBB:
Just yesterday, Sadie roughed up a 6 month old for his lunch money. True story. And I thought BOTB stood for Badass Ornery Terrible Babies. Sh*t. Looks like I'm on the wrong board.

Well, if you're going to dress her like a gangster, what do you expect?

Excitedtostart · September 2011

ValentineBB:
greenclown:
I will admit that I didn't read 75% of MaybeMore's novellas, but holy hell.
I did see the part about how the norm here is for us to have badly behaving children. Seeing how most of the kids here are babies, I'm not sure how that is possible. And as for the older kids, I can think of one that sounds like a handful, but other than that, I don't think I've ever noticed that anyone has a bad kid.
Just yesterday, Sadie roughed up a 6 month old for his lunch money. True story.And I thought BOTB stood for Badass Ornery Terrible Babies. Sh*t. Looks like I'm on the wrong board.

I heart you.

ValentineBB · September 2011

greenclown:
ValentineBB:
Just yesterday, Sadie roughed up a 6 month old for his lunch money. True story. And I thought BOTB stood for Badass Ornery Terrible Babies. Sh*t. Looks like I'm on the wrong board.

Well, if you're going to dress her like a gangster, what do you expect?

Thug lyfe. You betta reconize.

jenna3016 · September 2011

ValentineBB:
greenclown:
I will admit that I didn't read 75% of MaybeMore's novellas, but holy hell.
I did see the part about how the norm here is for us to have badly behaving children. Seeing how most of the kids here are babies, I'm not sure how that is possible. And as for the older kids, I can think of one that sounds like a handful, but other than that, I don't think I've ever noticed that anyone has a bad kid.
Just yesterday, Sadie roughed up a 6 month old for his lunch money. True story. And I thought BOTB stood for Badass Ornery Terrible Babies. Sh*t. Looks like I'm on the wrong board.

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