- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
Attachment Parenting
Those with high needs/ sensitive babies that don't sleep...
The other day someone on here suggested "Sleepless in America". C has always been a crappy to kind of decent sleeper, so I thought I would give it a look. My library had a free chapter to read online and I was hooked, I downloaded the Ibook version and read almost 250 pages last night it was so good. I haven't finished it, or had a chance (obviously) to try out the techniques, but so far I'm very impressed and wanted to pass along to other mamas in need.
This is the same author of "raising your spirited child", she has such an amazing outlook/perspective on "high needs" infants to teens. I love how she does not berate or blame the child or parent, but offers simple realistic solutions (and understanding for the behavior).
I like No Cry Sleep Solution too, but it only got us so far. I'm hoping and praying that this book will get us the rest of the way there. The book is geared towards infants to teenagers, so not everything is relevant, I just skipped the teenager stuff since it will be awhile before we are there. It is not a CIO approach.
(I'm also going to pick up Ferber's book today and also read the 1st chapter online, the first chapter at least didn't say anything that made me want to cringe or throw it at a wall...so I'm thinking there actually might be some good info in there too. He does hint in the first chapter that CIO isn't for everyone so I'm hoping that means he has some alternatives).
We are having a great week in regards to actually sleeping, but all the sudden C is having a really hard time winding down (ever since his birthday party). Once he's out, he's only waking once or twice....but 2 1/2 hours to fall asleep is wearing on everyone. Hoping I can find some ah-hah advice in these books ; )
ETA: Thanks to the mamas in the previous thread that suggested these two books...I really appreciate it!
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Those with high needs/ sensitive babies that don't sleep...
Ferber's book is excellent reading and will help right up through toddler hood. I have no idea where anyone got the idea it was "cringeworthy." That's strange to me.
I think because of his previous versions that were connected with failure to thrive and babies ending up in hospitals. I also think many people think CIO=Ferber and CIO is typically (unless last resort) not associated with AP. I have meant to pick up his book for a while because I heard it helps to gain understanding of sleep.
I will say the word "ferberize" totally makes me cringe!!!!!
But Ferber is not CIO, and has never, ever been associated with FTT. you are thinking about Babywise. Ferber is a physician and sleep expert. Enzo is an "evangelical christian advisor." Whatever the hell that is. Ferber's book has always had about 3 pages on crying, not "CIO" as you say but crying interrupted and while not for everyone has been given a very bizarre reputation from people who haven't read the book.
I read sleepless in america and liked it, although i would say that it's not a "solution"
I have a crappy sleeper. Well, let me rephrase - A Crappy Get-to-sleeper. Once she's asleep she's good to go for 10+ hours (with waking up to feed every 4 or so hours)
What works for me is trying to figure out what she needs, because it changes every few weeks. Two months ago she wanted to go to bed at 6:30. Now it's 8:30. We started a later bedtime once it was taking her 2 hours to get to sleep, and it saves us 2 hours fighting to get her down.
some days she does 2 naps, but most days she does one and does better on that. And I can't let her sleep past 3pm without knowing it will be a late bedtime.
I don't think there is a cure-all to crappy sleepers. I think it will just happen at some point. Hopefully. Then they will become teenagers and want to stay up until 2am.
I'd agree with reading Ferber. There's a few "cringeworthy" moments IMO but it's mostly because his method of teaching LO to fall asleep is pretty behaviorist in nature and I fall a little more on the humanist side regarding sleep. On the whole its definitely worth the read and you're likely to get a lot out of it even if you ignore his parenting advice.
No, Ferber is CIO. It's periodic check ins, but you still are letting baby CIO.
I'd be inclined to think a baby doesn't really know the difference between Ferber/extinction method CIO since they don't have any concept of time.
ETA: I don't think it's a bad read, but it's just not accurate to say he doesn't endorse CIO sleep training.
And Ferber is not CIO. Ferber is a physician whose expertise is sleep. His book is about sleep with a very minor part about crying with a disclaimer about parental comfort and explanation that you don't actually have to do it to have a sleeping child.
So in Ferber's book, he does not tell parents that about a technique to get their LO to sleep by creating a nighttime ritual, putting the baby to bed, and then leaving the baby even if they're crying but using a progressive waiting approach where the parent goes back to provide comfort (but not picking LO up) at 3/5/10 minute intervals?
Perhaps I was drunk when I read the book, but I pretty clearly remember reading about that.
ETA: I have 2 other sleep books (healthy sleep habits, happy child and the baby whisperer more specifically) and they both address the Ferber method outlining that exact same methodology. I suppose they didnt read the book either.
Sorry to butt in, but I think what lanie was saying is that Ferber is not literally CIO. Some people say "Ferberize" when they literally mean "CIO". Essentially implying that Ferber *is* CIO. Yes, Dr. Ferber suggests progressive waiting as an approach to sleep training. But there are many sleep experts (Dr. Weissbluth, for example) that endorse letting your baby for certain periods of time. So Ferber /= CIO.
Married 6/28/03
Kate ~ 7/3/09 *** Connor ~ 11/11/10
4 miscarriages: 2007, 2009, 2013, 2014
*~*~*~*~*
No more TTC for us. We are done, and at peace, as a family of 4.
"Suffering has been stronger than all other teaching, and has taught me to understand what your heart used to be. I have been bent and broken, but – I hope – into a better shape.” — Charles Dickens
Um, Ferber was never associated with failure to thrive. You are getting it confused with Gary Ezzo and One Becoming Babywise. Completely different approach. They aren't similar at all. The failure to thrive was caused by the scheduled feedings (not feeding infants on demand or watching their feeding cues), not on anything related to sleep or self soothing or CIO (or whatever you want to call it).
If you are going to be judgemental of moms who use some to of these books, you might want to get your criticisms straight. Ferber and Ezzo are not similar at all.
Married 6/28/03
Kate ~ 7/3/09 *** Connor ~ 11/11/10
4 miscarriages: 2007, 2009, 2013, 2014
*~*~*~*~*
No more TTC for us. We are done, and at peace, as a family of 4.
"Suffering has been stronger than all other teaching, and has taught me to understand what your heart used to be. I have been bent and broken, but – I hope – into a better shape.” — Charles Dickens
you might want to read all the posts before you respond. i never judged anyone...im reading ferber, so obviously i think it has something to offer. also i said i recently just realized that babywise was not ferber. i was simply speculating on how others like myself view the book before reading it. if you reed my op i said i read the first chapter of ferber and was impressed and suggested others read it to, despite their perception of it....so please explain how that is judging mothers.......
sorry for format on phone
r.
Exactly. His book is about sleep, period. And his book covers SEVERAL techniques. His book is not about CIO. His book is about sleep and techniques which help your child with sleep in general, including nightmares which I'm grateful for.
The part about CIO is 1/100th of his book. So whenever I hear that Ferber = CIO, i immediately understand that the person has not read it.
Both books were very helpful to me. Sleepless in America isn't really a method to help with sleep, but reading it helped me understand different factors that were affecting Ari's sleep and his ability to wind down at night. It helped me understand things that affected my sleep too! I actually liked that it wasn't a method, so I could take the info & tailor it to Ari's needs. Her Spirited Child book is wonderful too.
I didn't use Ferber's progressive check approach (Ari is also an tension increaser & I'm just not a fan this method), but his night weaning method was magic for us & actually involved the least amount of crying. Ari is also prone to night terrors & had reflux induced apnea, & his info was very helpful.
you just described all of coops barriers to sleep. we are trying to night wean too and having mixed success. im very excited to finish both books. i read her spirited child book years ago when i first started doing therapy with kids, but need to re read it since i dont remember much about it in terms of babies and toddlers
No, Ferber *IS* CIO.
There is extinction method CIO (mentioned in the weissbluth HSHHC book) where you leave the baby to cry with no checks. Ferber is progressive waiting CIO, where the baby left to cry (ie crying it out) but you do check in periodically.
Both are ultimately leaving the baby to cry. Sure, in Ferber's method you can check in on baby every so often, but it's still the same general principal. Both are CIO, just 2 different methods of CIO.
I get that actual section of the book on CIO is short, but no matter what what way you look at it, he IS endorsing CIO in his book.
The ocean IS sharks.
It is. Any way you slice it there are SHARKS in the ocean and the ocean IS sharks.
IT IS. I SAW A SHARK IN THE OCEAN! ITS SHARKS!
This is what you sound like to me right now. It's sort of hilarious that you just do not get it.
The book is about sleep. One of his MANY MANY MANY suggestions in his book is about crying. Its one of the MANY MANY (<--- MANY) suggestions. Your laughable suggestion that the entire book, man's education, understanding of sleep scheduling and sleep awareness IS CIO is utterly bizarre to me and perpetuating nonsense.
The only one not getting it is you.
Please show me where I said the entire book, man's education, understanding of sleep schedules and sleep awareness is all about CIO.
The fact of the matter is when people want to do CIO sleep training, they are told to read this book so they can properly utilize CIO. The book endorses CIO.
This is your reasoning: You can't say there's sharks in the ocean because there are a million other animals in the ocean other than sharks.
Just because he doesn't spend all 256 pages talking about CIO doesnt mean the book doesn't endorse CIO sleep training. While the book gives great non-CIO sleep advice and is a good read otherwise, in his book, he specifically states signs of readiness of CIO sleep training and how to do it. He endorses CIO as a solution to infant sleep issues. Good lord. Call a spade a spade.
I don't know why I feel the need to get involved, but whatever.
I've read Ferber. Twice. Even though you go in periodically to check on your child you still leave said child in the crib until they fall asleep, whether they're crying or not. That's CIO to me. I guess it depends on your definition, but leaving your child upset in order to "teach" them to fall asleep on their own is CIO to me.
That said, we finally went that route a couple of weeks ago. We've NCSS-ed ourselves to death over the past 16 months and could only ever get as far as sitting in her rocker (while leaving her in her crib) as she fell asleep. (Not to mention the frequent nighttime wakings where she wouldn't go back to sleep.) The minute we made a move for the door she was up and screaming. Luckily, the tears lasted for all of 3 minutes that first night and life has been so much easier ever since. I think it was just the right time for all of us and I don't regret waiting as long as we did.
DD2 8.22.13
MMC 1.4.17 at 16w
Expecting #3, EDD 1.29.18
::looks up:: "Ferber IS CIO." Ooooh look! Right there! he's a dr. Not CIO. I know you're having a hard time grasping this.
Yeah, I just read your "paycheck to paycheck" post and am super glad that I'm not the only one who knows you are as dumb as bait.
I'm not dumb-I'm actually college educated and can back my statements with statistics. People just get their panties in a bunch because they're irresponsible. Considering that more than half of the people who responded to that poll lived paycheck to paycheck all or part of the time, of course I'm going to get blasted for criticizing that lifestyle.
I love your post-"he's a doctor-not CIO!" WTF does that have to do with anything? You know, the person who wrote the book about extinction method CIO (HSHHC)-he's a doctor too! ROFL. That has to be, by far, the least intelligent thing I've ever read on here, and that's really not saying much. After making that statement, I would probably avoid going around and calling other people dumb.
Ok ok, I'll tell you that you didnt let your kid CIO because you read a book written by a doctor. Do you feel better now? LMAO.
Oh no! My pedi supports CIO and actually recommends Ferber's book to learn about it. I better check her credentials-clearly she CANT be a doctor and likely has fake credentials because doctors cant be CIO. HAHAHAHA.
Seriously, thanks for the good laugh this morning.
It's amazing that you continue to think you're oh-so-smart. You clearly missed the third grade lesson of reading comprehension.
I graduated summa *** laude from a well ranked college. My teachers did think I was oh-so-smart.
I do know what she's trying to get at, but since she's trying to pick apart my choice of words, I'm doing the same back.
Her point is just dumb. And "crying interrupted" and CIO are the same thing-hate to tell her. I'll never understand why people think it's different.
Honey, when your kids are a little older, you'll most likely pull your stick out of your ass. All the good ones do. I just noticed your oldest is not even 2, so you're still in THAT stage.
Also, book smart=/=smart. Just so you know. You clearly lack common sense. And that degree didn't buy you any good qualities in a person--you know, sympathy, empathy, understanding. You're an ignorant jackass.
I really don't know what the ages of my kids have anything to do with the topics discussed on here, but ok.
I'm glad you know me SO well from an internet conversation that you can tell I lack sympathy/empathy/understanding.
Since we can make assumptions based on an internet convo, since you resort to personal attacks when you disagree with someone clearly you are unintelligent. Hope your kids don't inherit that trait. You also lack a social life since you are so invested with a stranger on this site you follow her from post to post across different boards. Perhaps you should step away from the computer now.
I posted in this thread far before you ever did.
Also, the ages of your kids has everything to do with the conversation about sleep training. Your kids are young. Inexperienced moms often have the martyr complex. I should know; I had one, too.
A-My kids are young, but past the ages that one would sleep train. Especially my oldest, and he was my worst sleeper. People usually do CIO sleep training at 6 months, not at 4 years old.
B-I never criticized sleep training in this thread. I'm just saying the Ferber method=CIO. I never even commented whether it was right or not. Reading comprehension fail.
C-People can think CIO is not right for them for reasons besides wanting to be a "martyr".
Do you have a purpose here? Sometimes you have great things to add to the conversation. You seem to be an intelligent women. I just don't understand why you spend so much time here when (as far as I've seen) you aren't AP at all. I'm not saying that someone has to be to comment here but your comments are less than productive.
I didn't know there was a checklist of criteria to meet before you can post on this board.
I think she specifically said that anyone can post. She was asking WHY Lanie posts here. I think it's a pretty legitimate question.