Post on 1st tri made my blood boil

may2806 · August 2011

Ok, I am usually not the type to complain about other boards, but I don't want to respond and stir the pot there so I'm just going to vent about it here! A girl posted about how she got pregant after doctors told her she couldn't. This is one response, and the OP's response to that response:

"Congrats on the pregnancy! What great news when they told you it wouldn't happen. God's plans are so much bigger and better than ours. Praying for that for my cousin

"

"You are so right...Our God is greater and I will stand in faith with you that your cousin will be healed and have a baby all in God's timing!

"

Um ok... so I guess God's plan for me was to put me through 3 losses and 4 years of hell...that sounds like a GREAT plan, much better than the one I had come up with.

snoangel79 · August 2011

Half of me would want to post what you think. I can be an arsehole at times and can't stand this type of crap. Like maybe come and post what you think on the IF or Loss boards idiot! I'm sure it was God's plan to have me have cancer at 23 also dumbarse!! People suck! I can't really stomach 1st tri! My month board is so much better!

lckcdc3 · August 2011

Ugh I hate that crap. Give me a break! If god had "plans" children wouldn't suffer or be born into abusive homes.

wordslikeswords · August 2011

I'm don't mean to be insensitive, but I don't quite understand why you're so upset? She believes God healed her and is praying for healing for the other person's cousin. Everyone has their own story and set of beliefs. She wasn't telling you that "god has a plan" or anything? Why is it wrong for her to think God healed her?

I've dealt with infertility, failed IVF, progressive kidney disease, a brain tumor for DH, and I still believe that for me, it's part of God's plan. If that's what they believe, and they're not telling you YOU should believe it.. I don't see the issue?

may2806 · August 2011

You are right, everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and if people want to believe that disease and hardship are part of God's plan that's fine. I'm not upset that she thinks God healed her, I'm upset at her stating that God's plans are greater than ours, which is evidenced by the healing. This logic is faulty because if God plans everything, that must include pain and suffering, and that to me does not seem great. I take offense that the implication is that God has such a great plan for this girl, but such a crappy one for so many other suffering people.I don't have to agree with that line or thinking or think that it makes any kind of sense, which is why I complained about it here. Her message wasn't to me so I didn't want to write back to the post and bring it up there.

But again, if you want to believe suffering is part of God's plan, that's your right. I just don't have to agree with it.

wordslikeswords:

I'm don't mean to be insensitive, but I don't quite understand why you're so upset? She believes God healed her and is praying for healing for the other person's cousin. Everyone has their own story and set of beliefs. She wasn't telling you that "god has a plan" or anything? Why is it wrong for her to think God healed her?

I've dealt with infertility, failed IVF, progressive kidney disease, a brain tumor for DH, and I still believe that for me, it's part of God's plan. If that's what they believe, and they're not telling you YOU should believe it.. I don't see the issue?

mclaugh · August 2011

This is something that I have struggled with for a long time. As someone who never believed in God because of the injustice I saw and was a part of (rape, miscarriage, heart problems, infertility, divorce, Alzheimer's), I too struggled to grasp why God would allow/plan such horrible things to happen.

The truth is that God did not want any of this for us. However, we are broken and our sin and brokenness causes these many hardship. I am not in anyway saying that anyone deserves this so please don't misread. I just mean that we encounter these hardships as a result of our (human) sins. There is nothing we can do to prevent this and it doesn't make it fair or easy.

What is part of God's plan is for us to turn to him in these times of difficulty and for him to guide us and help us through allowing us to learn and grow from our experiences.

I still get made at Him for things that happen but I have a much different perspective today.

may2806 · August 2011

mclaugh:

However, we are broken and our sin and brokenness causes these many hardship. I am not in anyway saying that anyone deserves this so please don't misread. I just mean that we encounter these hardships as a result of our (human) sins. There is nothing we can do to prevent this and it doesn't make it fair or easy.

I have a hard time buying into this too...

mclaugh:

What is part of God's plan is for us to turn to him in these times of difficulty and for him to guide us and help us through allowing us to learn and grow from our experiences.

I think this is a good and healthy way to look at it.

Dee1028 · August 2011

I am not religious and I always hated when people say stuff like that.

HawkeyeGirl16 · August 2011

((hugs)) I can understand how you feel. I've had the same kind of reaction to comments like that before. I've been through fertility treatments and have lost four pregnancies already (one of which was a set of triplets) and I still question what the purpose of this was and what part God had in all of this.

Recently, I had a girl that I graduated from high school with claim that they had been through "so much" after less than a year of trying and just three rounds of Clomid. She was already ready to give up and was convinced that she couldn't get pregnant, but miraculously conceived on that third Clomid cycle. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see all of my fellow IFers finally have success, but I was very frustrated by the way she made her situation seem so dire and her pregnancy as such a miracle. After that announcement, I found out that my step-sister is expecting twins (no IF treatsments) after thinking that she couldn't get pregnant. Obviously...she thought wrong and I was even more frustrated.

I subscribe to the Stepping Stones newsletter for couples that are dealing with infertility and pregnancy loss. They actually just addressed this topic in their current issue and it brought me a bit of peace. They used the example of Jesus healing the blind man. Jesus had said "neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life" (John 9:3).

We are not being punished for anything and I truly believe that God will not give us any more than we can handle. As a result of everything that we have been through, my husband and I have strengthened our relationship, our families are closer, and it has reminded everyone about how precious and fragile life is and how important it to make God a part of our lives. I still find myself asking "why us?", but reading that article and taking a step back to look at some of the good that has come to us in the past couple of years instead of focusing on all of the negatives has helped.

MyHusbandMyHero · August 2011

HawkeyeGirl16:
((hugs)) . They used the example of Jesus healing the blind man. Jesus had said "neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life" (John 9:3).
We are not being punished for anything and I truly believe that God will not give us any more than we can handle. As a result of everything that we have been through, my husband and I have strengthened our relationship, our families are closer, and it has reminded everyone about how precious and fragile life is and how important it to make God a part of our lives. I still find myself asking "why us?", but reading that article and taking a step back to look at some of the good that has come to us in the past couple of years instead of focusing on all of the negatives has helped.

This

-- in our life, I had to stop asking "why us?".. And know that the work of God will be displayed in our lives. My favorite scripture displayed in our home to help me everyday is "For I know the plans i have for you', declares the Lord. 'Plans to prosper you, not harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future." (Jer. 29:11)

Imanurse03 · August 2011

I can see where maybe others would be offended by the post, but it doesn't upset me. I'm a Christian and have a deep faith in God. While I didn't like or even enjoy the trials and tribulations that I went through with IF and multiple m/c, I do know that God was there with me to carry through those very dark times. Sure, I questioned God and even got angry with Him at times, but I still knew that He was with me. I don't believe that He just randomly chose me or any of us to go through the trial of IF. I do believe that there is suffering in this world and we each have our cross to bear (some more than others it seems at times).

God doesn't like to see us suffer but unfortunately there is sin and suffering in the world, but God sees us through those times of suffering. I think that because of going through IF and multiple miscarriages, those experiences have changed me and shaped who I am today. I think I'm a more sensitive and understanding person. It's also taught me patience. Don't mean to get spiritual on anyone but those are just my beliefs.

WhiteGarden · August 2011

mclaugh:

This is something that I have struggled with for a long time. As someone who never believed in God because of the injustice I saw and was a part of (rape, miscarriage, heart problems, infertility, divorce, Alzheimer's), I too struggled to grasp why God would allow/plan such horrible things to happen.

The truth is that God did not want any of this for us. However, we are broken and our sin and brokenness causes these many hardship. I am not in anyway saying that anyone deserves this so please don't misread. I just mean that we encounter these hardships as a result of our (human) sins. There is nothing we can do to prevent this and it doesn't make it fair or easy.

What is part of God's plan is for us to turn to him in these times of difficulty and for him to guide us and help us through allowing us to learn and grow from our experiences.

I still get made at Him for things that happen but I have a much different perspective today.

Very well said. I feel the same way, and it took going through a year and a half of IF treatments, parental health scares, and other issues for me to really figure it out. It's now such a relief to stop questioning "why" about everything and feel a greater sense of peace.

Also -- I see you live in Raleigh. I'm NE of Raleigh -- hope you are getting through this windy, rainy day safely.

SunMoon&Stars · August 2011

mclaugh:
I just mean that we encounter these hardships as a result of our (human) sins.

That is a disgustingly offensive statement. You're telling me little kids get raped " as a result of their human sins"? Ugh. The OP is right and people like you are the reason I'm an atheist.

WhiteGarden · August 2011

SunMoon&Stars:
mclaugh:
I just mean that we encounter these hardships as a result of our (human) sins.
That is a disgustingly offensive statement. You're telling me little kids get raped " as a result of their human sins"? Ugh. The OP is right and people like you are the reason I'm an atheist.

Whoa. I think you're ripping her statement out of context a bit. She didn't say kids get raped because of their sins. If I'm reading her statement correctly, I think the implication is that because there IS sin in the world, in general, bad things happen. Actually, in context of her statement, an innocent little kid might be raped because the person who is raping them is clearly majorly messed up. Not because it's the little kid's fault. Most people with faith don't believe such crazy things (I'm sure there are a few wackos who do, but I really don't think this poster meant it that way).

I used to wonder why bad things didn't just happen to "bad people" exclusively. But I get now that we don't get to choose who has what bad things happen to whom. Some of us deal with IF, cancer, and other heartaches just because there is badness in the world, period. We don't get to live in a perfect world, and we can't make it perfect, much as we might want to.

SunMoon&Stars · August 2011

WhiteGarden:
SunMoon&Stars:
mclaugh:
I just mean that we encounter these hardships as a result of our (human) sins.
That is a disgustingly offensive statement. You're telling me little kids get raped " as a result of their human sins"? Ugh. The OP is right and people like you are the reason I'm an atheist.

Whoa. I think you're ripping her statement out of context a bit. She didn't say kids get raped because of their sins. If I'm reading her statement correctly, I think the implication is that because there IS sin in the world, in general, bad things happen. Actually, in context of her statement, an innocent little kid might be raped because the person who is raping them is clearly majorly messed up. Not because it's the little kid's fault. Most people with faith don't believe such crazy things (I'm sure there are a few wackos who do, but I really don't think this poster meant it that way).

I used to wonder why bad things didn't just happen to "bad people" exclusively. But I get now that we don't get to choose who has what bad things happen to whom. Some of us deal with IF, cancer, and other heartaches just because there is badness in the world, period. We don't get to live in a perfect world, and we can't make it perfect, much as we might want to.

She said WE encounter hardships as a result of OUR sins, so yes, that's how I read it.

And HTF is having cancer or IF a result of "badness in the world"?

WhiteGarden · August 2011

SunMoon&Stars:
She said WE encounter hardships as a result of OUR sins, so yes, that's how I read it.
And HTF is having cancer or IF a result of "badness in the world"?

Look, I'm not trying to engage you in a big theological discussion. I respect your opinion. I was just trying to point out that you seemed to post an angry response to a statement that was slightly taken out of context.

And yes -- "badness in the world" is not the most eloquent phrase. But clearly the world is far from a perfect place. Children go hungry, are abused, and sometimes it seems as though they are born to just exactly the most uncaring, stupid, irresponsible parents -- while others, who deal with IF, obviously long to provide a loving stable home to children they can't have or struggle for years to have. Another example: our DNA doesn't replicate flawlessly -- thus, we age, and some of us get cancer. It's messed up and it certainly doesn't seem fair -- said rapists and child abusers never seem to be the ones who end up with the worst diseases. How did it happen that I have one grandmother who is literally an alcoholic living into her late 80s, whereas my other completely tee-totalling grandmother died in her 50s from liver cancer? It makes no sense! It's just all part of an imperfect world. And, like other Christians, I believe there is such a thing as sin (i.e., doing the wrong thing in whatever capacity that may be) in the world, including our own sin, and there has been for a very, very long time, and that's what has caused a world that might have worked well at one time to become so terribly and randomly flawed.

And, for what it's worth, I personally sort of agree with the OP that I don't like other people throwing around "God's plan" in the way that the 1st Tri poster did. It's a personal thing that grates on me -- I hear that phrase being misused all the time.

I understand your point of view, and that you disagree with me. I am sincerely not trying to force my opinion on you, but am just trying to explain my viewpoint here, since you asked about it. And I definitely want to communicate that I, for one, (and I think most others who have expressed a "religious" viewpoint here) don't think in a way that somehow justifies little children --or anyone, for that matter-- being raped.

SunMoon&Stars · August 2011

WhiteGarden:
SunMoon&Stars:
She said WE encounter hardships as a result of OUR sins, so yes, that's how I read it.
And HTF is having cancer or IF a result of "badness in the world"?

Look, I'm not trying to engage you in a big theological discussion. I respect your opinion. I was just trying to point out that you seemed to post an angry response to a statement that was slightly taken out of context.

And yes -- "badness in the world" is not the most eloquent phrase. But clearly the world is far from a perfect place. Children go hungry, are abused, and sometimes it seems as though they are born to just exactly the most uncaring, stupid, irresponsible parents -- while others, who deal with IF, obviously long to provide a loving stable home to children they can't have or struggle for years to have. Another example: our DNA doesn't replicate flawlessly -- thus, we age, and some of us get cancer. It's messed up and it certainly doesn't seem fair -- said rapists and child abusers never seem to be the ones who end up with the worst diseases. How did it happen that I have one grandmother who is literally an alcoholic living into her late 80s, whereas my other completely tee-totalling grandmother died in her 50s from liver cancer? It makes no sense! It's just all part of an imperfect world. And, like other Christians, I believe there is such a thing as sin (i.e., doing the wrong thing in whatever capacity that may be) in the world, including our own sin, and there has been for a very, very long time, and that's what has caused a world that might have worked well at one time to become so terribly and randomly flawed.

And, for what it's worth, I personally sort of agree with the OP that I don't like other people throwing around "God's plan" in the way that the 1st Tri poster did. It's a personal thing that grates on me -- I hear that phrase being misused all the time.

I understand your point of view, and that you disagree with me. I am sincerely not trying to force my opinion on you, but am just trying to explain my viewpoint here, since you asked about it. And I definitely want to communicate that I, for one, (and I think most others who have expressed a "religious" viewpoint here) don't think in a way that somehow justifies little children --or anyone, for that matter-- being raped.

None of that answers my question.

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