Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers? I need some help...

littledeeropera · August 2011

My mother, who I have been in NO Contact with for about 2 years, will be visiting to see the baby in a couple of months. I have talked to her a few times on the phone. Just generic, conversations about the baby, plans, etc.

The background of our relationship is a sunken ship. To put it simply, she turned a blind eye to my father's sexual abuse of myself and my sister for about 5 years of our childhood. In addition, she recently took something I inherited from my grandmother upon her death and sold it without telling me.

Basically, I am letting her visit because I don't want the drama of trying to keep her away from seeing her grandchild. But I am afraid of the emotional fallout that comes with having to interact with her. I've tried to send her some emails with boundaries like: can't stay at my house, can't talk badly about my younger sister, etc. But I'm still afraid of how she will act towards friends and my new husband.

How do I interact with my mother when we have so many unresolved conflicts bubbling under the surface? I feel like she is perfectly capable of overstaying her welcome and trying to interfere with the baby at a time when I will be the most vulnerable.

Any advice on dealing with a mom with narcissistic personality disorder when you are pregnant? Your thoughts are welcome...

varkeyr · August 2011

Does your husband know of the past? Enlist his help as much as possible.Work out a signal so that he can get her moving out the door if you need it. Also try and have others around if it keeps her in check.If she prefers the audience then don't have anyone else around.

ChefSarah22 · August 2011

Personally, I my mother had done all that, she would not be seeing me or my LO.

jvlund84 · August 2011

ChefSarah22:
Personally, I my mother had done all that, she would not be seeing me or my LO.

same

Ms.Jade · August 2011

Pretend she's a co-worker who wants to come over. Treat her the same way. I would also have a closed ended visit - either you all are going someplace at a certain time or you're having people over, or something. I would not have her over without a clear end time.

unm00red · August 2011

ChefSarah22:
Personally, I my mother had done all that, she would not be seeing me or my LO.

Agreed. Why would you want this person in your LO's life where she could potentially do more harm?

I don't mean to sound overly harsh, but this woman allowed you to be sexually abused for five years and also stole from you. And you're still willing to allow her into your child's life simply to "avoid drama"?

I have no idea how much counseling you may have done to deal with your childhood abuse but, for what it's worth, this sounds like you may still be dealing with some codependency/boundary issues. It may be worth getting an outside, professional prospective on this one. At the very least, I'd be having some long, hard talks with your husband to get his thoughts.

FWIW, I have a close family member with narcissistic personality disorder. It is very, very rare for people with this condition to ever get better or change.

I wish you all the best in your efforts to handle this in a constructive manner for you and your family.

RadicalDreamer143 · August 2011

My mother is the same way. Fortunately she lives 12 hours away. However, she'll drop in (with her whole freaking family) every few months.

I treat her coolly. She knows I have no love for her, and that I can't just conjure up feelings of love and ignore how I was treated for the 18 years I lived under her roof, and then the drama once I was out. I volunteer no information for her whatsoever. It might sound mean, but my son and daughter will be quite aware of her past - no one should have to be blindsided by her, IMO. The only reason I speak with her at all is because my 14 year old half brother is a decent kid (not so much the 18 yr old that she completely ruined), and he needs the support of someone sane in the family.

daisy91606 · August 2011

This may sound cold, but maybe the best thing is to not deal with her. You know...continue with the no contact life you have had. Haven't you been happier without dealing with her these past two years? You don't want the drama of keeping her from the baby, but do you want the drama of the "emotional fallout" in your life? If your mother is that bad maybe the best thing for you and your family is to just cut the ties.

EveKing79 · August 2011

I have a similar relationship with my mother. She does not necessarily have narcissistic personality disorder but she has had a long history of alcoholism, endangering my younger siblings with drunk driving, neglect, etc.

I think that the best way to handle things is to establish very clear boundaries and ensure that your DH is there to act as a buffer (I hope he knows your whole history with your mom). I think there are ways to allow your mom to have some contact with your LO as long as you control it completely, and put a stop to any encounters where she is crossing boundaries to being/ doing things that are inappropriate, in your view. For me, this means my mom (who is currently in recovery, but who knows how that will go) will not be alone with my son, will not babysit, etc., but DH and I are not going to try to cut off all contact. She lives in the same town that we do with all my siblings, who are pretty messed up as well.

While I respect what PPs have said about cutting off all contact, I think that this is very easy to say but much harder to put into practice. With my own mother, it is a grey area- as long as she is not alone with my son, she can't physically endanger him, so I have to determine how involved I can allow her to be in his life. If I feel that she is impacting him negatively emotionally (i.e., showing up drunk to holidays or something like that) I would limit or cut off contact. but right now that is not the case, and it seems from your post like you are in a similarly complicated situation.

Have you talked to anyone professionally about all this? I have been in therapy for about a year, and my therapist said that many times people believe, with difficult family relationships, that you should have an "all or nothing" mentality-either you let these people in, and trust and love them completely, like any healthy family (obviously not an option in your case or mine) or you cut off all contact completely. He told me that sometimes the healthiest path is to treat these family members more like aquaintances- be civil and pleasant when you feel you have to spend time with them, keep it as light as possible, but don't invest in the relationship. Don't let them into your life too far, don't depend on them to come through for you, don't expect them to change.

That has been my (and my DH's) policy for the past year plus with my mom, and I think it's a workable one. Sh'e'll be able to get to know her grandson in a limited way, without endangering or upsetting him, and DH and I don't step in or stress ourselves out when she and my siblings are making crappy decisions, when I used to feel very invested in "helping" my mom. We expect very little of her, but at the same time, there isn't the level of drama and animosity that would accompany trying to cut her out of our lives completely.

I will say, it's really helpful if your DH is behind you and has a calm, firm personality. Mine does (I am more likely to get upset and lose my temper) . This way, if your mom is overstepping her boundaries, either you or he can firmly, kindly let her know it's time to go, or that the topic is not up for discussion, etc.

Disneygeek77 · August 2011

I wouldn't care what kind of drama I had to go through, I wouldn't let her in my home.

I also want to say that you don't have to be involved in the drama if you don't want to. This is very much in your control. You can block phone numbers, block emails, call the police if she shows up to your home and refuse to talk about her to other family members.

Just because she has a genetic link to your child, that doesn't mean she has the honor and priviledge of being in your and your child's life. Save that for people who truly do care about you guys.

Trust me, if you don't cut her out now you will regret it. I know of what I speak.

jonnygurl76 · August 2011

ChefSarah22:
Personally, I my mother had done all that, she would not be seeing me or my LO.

sorry but this 100%.

Lissa832 · August 2011

You are setting yourself up for drama. Change your number and email. Problem solved. I think you are asking for drama by allowing this woman to visit. It doesn't make sense to me, and I just wouldn't do it. You don't owe her anything. If it were me, I'd call her and tell her I changed my mind and then never speak to her again.

sunandsurfmama · August 2011

ChefSarah22:
Personally, I my mother had done all that, she would not be seeing me or my LO.

This. I feel my job first and foremost is to be a parent. Not pacify others. Not every family is set up a way that can have all members involved. In an ideal world it might happen but then there is reality.

Just because they are "family" does not mean they have to be involved in LO's life. I have a few family members (drugs, abuse, etc.) that will under no circumstances be around my child. Family or not.

mrsmikeyray · August 2011

First of all, if my mother did what yours did, not acknowledging the abuse from when you were a child, that would be it. I would never speak to the woman again. Not even to have her involved with my child. I wouldn't even want her to know I'd had a child.

ces25c · August 2011

ChefSarah22:
Personally, I my mother had done all that, she would not be seeing me or my LO.

It sounds like your LO losing out on a grandmother would be less harmful than letting her be part of your lives. At the most, I would let her occasionally meet your LO in public settings with other people with you, but I don't think you have any obligation to do that.

OP, I have no experience like yours, but we do have an aunt who speaks badly about the rest of the family-not just gossiping, she exaggerates or even flat-out lies. She holds grudges over things that are none of her business (affairs and divorce of her distant relative that happened when she was only a child), speaks against anyone who is not Christian enough (only she is, not even relatives who are ministers) and demeaned her mother for having spent "her" inheritance on medical bills. When we ask her not to spread lies or discuss others' private issues, she personally attacks us.

We are not dealing with anything like your situation, but she is a poisonous person and I don't think children need to be around that. We will still see her at a few family functions she is still invited to, but our LO will not have any relationship with her.

RadicalDreamer143 · August 2011

For those that think it is that easy to cut out someone with this sort of personality... it's not. My mother drove 12 hours to camp outside my door once when I didn't speak to her for a month. I suppose I could just tell my child when he is old enough - "Yes, son, this is how I treat your grandmother." It's hell on my brothers, whom she drags along with her. Prior to this, she called my house every hour on the hour for a week. I didn't give her my phone number... my favorite aunt did, who is a pushover. I can't control what she does.

It reflects better on me to let her "express herself" while completely supervised (I'd never let my kids around her alone, ever) and then explain to them that she is a sick individual. There is a lesson to be learned in dealing with this sort of person - hell, I grew up with her, and as a result just did everything opposite what she did. As a result, I became an engineer, first in my family to graduate college, and have a loving husband and kids, and aside from her.. a life without drama.

RadicalDreamer143 · August 2011

Oh, and to the OP - don't let her come as soon as the baby is born. Or, let her, and go about your business and ignore her in order to make you and your child comfortable. Both my mother and MIL came at weeks 3 and 4 to stay for a week, and they maybe got to see me and my child for 2 hours a day - meaning, when he wasn't sleeping, or BFing, which I refused to do in front of them. They learned their lesson - that I won't be accommodating them while inconveniencing my family. They're waiting a few months this time, and only staying 2-3 days. Sounds good to me.

mrsredmoose · August 2011

I can empathize; my mother is a bipolar addict. I understand how conflicted you may feel. Like pps suggested, I'd discuss this with a counselor and YH. Ironically, I married a narcotics detective, so I have an extra advantage now. We are still trying to decide when she will be invited over to see her grandson and how long. It's not easy.

I'm sorry for the abuse you suffered. I really think a pro can help you come to a decision about your mother's prospective visit and help prepare you for any triggers that may come up during childbirth.

Good luck.

katchowski · August 2011

I have cut my parents out of most of my life, but I still have to interact with them because of siblings. I avoid emotional conflicts by treating her like a stranger. If I were to meet someone of her age socially, how would I treat them? I may let them meet my child, but not be alone with the child. Things like this.

If she steps out of line, ignore her, and ask her to leave. She is entering your house, and she should know that she is not there as a grandmother, or a mother, but as a guest.

Kitty Holland · August 2011

I agree with PP, don't allow your mother into your child's life. Even though you may have thrived, I think it was probably despite and not because of your mother's abuse. Exposure to your mother cannot be good for your children - protect them at whatever cost and no matter what drama it may cause.

Broadway1 · August 2011

EveryWednesday:

He told me that sometimes the healthiest path is to treat these family members more like aquaintances- be civil and pleasant when you feel you have to spend time with them, keep it as light as possible, but don't invest in the relationship. Don't let them into your life too far, don't depend on them to come through for you, don't expect them to change.

That has been my (and my DH's) policy for the past year plus with my mom, and I think it's a workable one. Sh'e'll be able to get to know her grandson in a limited way, without endangering or upsetting him, and DH and I don't step in or stress ourselves out when she and my siblings are making crappy decisions, when I used to feel very invested in "helping" my mom. We expect very little of her, but at the same time, there isn't the level of drama and animosity that would accompany trying to cut her out of our lives completely.

That is great advice. I'm fortunate to have wonderful parents, but my cousins have pretty terrible ones (alcoholics, their father abandoned them to foster care and my aunt took them in). It is a lot more difficult than people realize to cut ties with a parent. I never would have believed how difficult had I not watched my cousins go through managing their relationships. My middle cousin is getting married in a week (paid for by my aunt and uncle) and her deadbeat father is invited, though he has done nothing for them in about ten years. It should be interesting.

In any event, maybe you can balance the relationship by meeting in a neutral place, like a playground or a restaurant. That way you will be away from your home and can remove yourself from the situation if it starts to get uncomfortable. I would set the ground rules so that you always meet away from your home for a set period of time, and that her attention should be on your child, not on you. If she starts to stray from that, you can always leave.

littledeeropera · August 2011

Thank you everyone for you thoughtful advice and helpful insights.

As far as the DH, he is a saint and totally supports me no matter what I decide when it comes to dealing with my family.

The hardest part has been to decide whether to keep her away or allow her a visit and then never deal with her again. The reason I am letting her visit, but not staying at my house of course, is because she is the kind of person that likes to play the victim. That's what NPD parents do, every time. So I don't want to give her this ammunition that she uses against me for the rest of her life saying "Oh, you never let me see my grandchild. How could you be so heartless? I have a right to blah blah blah." I usually tune out after that. So, that's what I mean by avoiding future issues/drama. As long as I let her visit, then she will not have that ammunition to play the sad violin of her life every time she sees a relative or my poor sister who unfortunately lives within 30 minutes of the monster/mother.

And yes, going no contact for a few years has made a world of difference. I stopped getting migraine headaches, I'm happier than I've ever been and I'm married and having a baby. All major events that I don't think would've happened if I kept talking to her. And you're right, I should go back to no contact. I will just as soon as I get through this last event. She lives thousands of miles away and it is easy to keep her out of my life when I choose to.

I just don't want her on her deathbed saying I didn't let her see her grandchild. It would really bother me for years.

littledeeropera · August 2011

P.S. I just got married earlier this year and she was not invited. Actually she found out like 6 months later. Ha.

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