More #3 debate...

CaitlinJ22 · July 2011

ok so do you think waaay far ahead when/if you have #3 (or more) or if you have more than 2 kids now, did you consider college in your decision? I told my OB we were thinking of TTC this fall and she said, wow you could have 3 in college at one time....and she is right. I guess I didnt think of it that way. I know they will overlap at least some, but there will be a point where all 3 would be in at one time...for 2 years if I got pg right away. That freaks me out along with a few other things of course.

Why do I feel like its so much harder making the decision on when to have #3 versus when we were trying for #2? I am SO glad we got pg with DD right away, otherwise I would've been terrified and get wishy washy about it. A big part of me wants to stop BC as planned at the end of next month and see what happens....but when we did that last time I got pg RIGHT away. I am ok with them being 2 years apart, but would it be easier to have another 3-6 months under our belts? who knows. And it could take longer this time...so who knows. I know I am over thinking this

My BIGGEST concern is that DH is gone a lot. We know we want #3, but I am trying to figure out when it would make life a little easier for me while he is gone...while not waiting too long.

Thanks for any input...and letting me vent

mrsseguin · July 2011

We have always talked about having 3 kids...I'd space #2 and #3 out more if we do. I don't think about paying for their college...I plan to help them out financially, but I feel they would also need to work for their education as well. It is a big decision to make about having more kids, but I wouldn't let college in the future decide on when you have another one.

We have also had a very hard time adjusting to having 2 kids. At times the thought of 3 makes me think I'm insane and I'd tie my tubes on the spot if I could. Other times I couldn't imagine only having 2...we go back and forth often. I have high risk pregnancies...including pre-e, diabetes and PTL, so it's probably not a good idea to have a 3rd, but we both think about it a lot.

MissSweetestTea · July 2011

all i can say is that i blinked and got pregnant with my first two, and this time is is taking much longer. we started 2 months early, hoping for 2yrs apart again, in case it took longer....and i'm glad we did. this month would put us a few days after my other kids bdays.....and if not, we keep moving on. i am happy to have them close, i am an only child, though.....and we do think in the future. both kids already have private school accounts and college funds started. we don't shop and we save everything......spend when we want to, but save first.....so the thought of 3 in college does not concern me....if you plan for the future NOW, you'll be fine.

Raffes484 · July 2011

Thinking of paying for college is a terrifying thought. If I'm being honest, while I plan on helping my kids with college, I don't think that we'll be paying for it completely. I agree with pp that I want my kids to work for their education. I think that if they're contributing financially they'll take it more seriously.

I also think the selfish part of me wants to be done with the pregnancy portion of my life.

Kdonn15 · July 2011

Dh and I have talked about #3 as well and think we'll wait to space #2 and #3 about 2.5 years apart. The idea of having three in college at once does not concern us too much because we don't intend to finance their entire education....we will pay for some college up front and then they can take out student loans.....for the rest. This is how my parents did it and I feel like I appreciate my education moreso than my friends who didn't have to chip in a dime do. Granted this doesn't mean we haven't started savings accounts for both kids!

HarrietNJMommy · July 2011

Yes, we did think about the financials. I don't think enough people consider them. The whole "it'll work itself out" seems irresponsible to me. Kids get MORE expensive as they get older. The newborn stage is the cheapest (daycare costs/nanny costs not counted). Once you get to 3 kids, the whole ballgame changes - bigger car, more gas, more food, more rooms for travel, etc. College aside, going from 2 to 3 kids is a big difference in terms of cost. Think activities, clothing, etc. You can find great deals on newborn clothes, but not so much on clothes for teens and tweens. And they eat a LOT more! LOL!

And you won't have 3 kids in college together for 2 years. You might have 1 year all together depending on timing, but your spacing will be a little more than mine and I will only have one year in college at once.

I don't buy the argument "if my kid has to pay for college, they'll take it more seriously, appreciate it more, etc." I think that's B.S. It all depends on the child's personality. I can tell you that I APPRECIATED not being saddled with debt after finishing college. My parents paid for my education, but I had a 1/2 tuition scholarship as well. My DH had his ENTIRE college/grad school paid for (he has a PhD) by scholarships, grants, and aid. He APPRECIATES, that after 9 years of school, he isn't saddled with debt either.

I have friends that had to pay their own way in college. Half of them took much longer to graduate since they couldn't pay for it, and the other half dropped out since it was too much of a strain on them (granted, this was engineering school as well and it was pretty difficult).

We DO plan on paying for college for our kids. It's important to us. We also plan on having our kids work and earn money for the "extras" like books, maybe room/board, their car, etc.

With your DH being gone so much, it would be MUCH easier when your oldest is in K. At least then, you won't have all 3 kids at home with you all the time - that is the hardest part of me having 3 kids in 3years.

GL to you!

Jilybean17 · July 2011

We have been thinking ahead for #3 but really, there is no perfect time, at least for us anyway. We don't have to worry about daycare since DH and I are business owners and alternate days at our office.

We decided to wait a bit longer to TTC #3 because we wanted the age gap to be bigger between #2 and #3. We just started trying last month

Did you have a hard time with your 2 while your DH was gone? You have to remember too that your 2 will be older and that much more self sufficient when #3 arrives! GL with whatever you decide!

Bride2b2004 · July 2011

Raffes484:
Thinking of paying for college is a terrifying thought. If I'm being honest, while I plan on helping my kids with college, I don't think that we'll be paying for it completely. I agree with pp that I want my kids to work for their education. I think that if they're contributing financially they'll take it more seriously.

This. I paid for college and law school myself. I hope we can *help* our children, but education is an endeavor I do not want to fund/pioneer for them, it is a choice I want them to make and be responsible for. My major concern with #3 is really the family dynamic and hoping they each get what they need from us despite the fact that there will only be 2 of us and 3 of them.

Kdonn15 · July 2011

HarrietNJMommy:
Yes, we did think about the financials. I don't think enough people consider them. The whole "it'll work itself out" seems irresponsible to me. Kids get MORE expensive as they get older. The newborn stage is the cheapest (daycare costs/nanny costs not counted). Once you get to 3 kids, the whole ballgame changes - bigger car, more gas, more food, more rooms for travel, etc. College aside, going from 2 to 3 kids is a big difference in terms of cost. Think activities, clothing, etc. You can find great deals on newborn clothes, but not so much on clothes for teens and tweens. And they eat a LOT more! LOL!
And you won't have 3 kids in college together for 2 years. You might have 1 year all together depending on timing, but your spacing will be a little more than mine and I will only have one year in college at once.
I don't buy the argument "if my kid has to pay for college, they'll take it more seriously, appreciate it more, etc." I think that's B.S. It all depends on the child's personality. I can tell you that I APPRECIATED not being saddled with debt after finishing college. My parents paid for my education, but I had a 1/2 tuition scholarship as well. My DH had his ENTIRE college/grad school paid for (he has a PhD) by scholarships, grants, and aid. He APPRECIATES, that after 9 years of school, he isn't saddled with debt either.
I have friends that had to pay their own way in college. Half of them took much longer to graduate since they couldn't pay for it, and the other half dropped out since it was too much of a strain on them (granted, this was engineering school as well and it was pretty difficult).
We DO plan on paying for college for our kids. It's important to us. We also plan on having our kids work and earn money for the "extras" like books, maybe room/board, their car, etc.
With your DH being gone so much, it would be MUCH easier when your oldest is in K. At least then, you won't have all 3 kids at home with you all the time - that is the hardest part of me having 3 kids in 3years.
GL to you!

Sorry you didn't "buy" what I said in my earlier post about people not appreciating their education when they didn't have to contribute to it financially. I think you misunderstood me though, since in fact you and your dh contributed financially to your education through scholarships and grants. I am ALL FOR helping my children get a good education, but I do want them to take some responsibility for it. I went to school with a lot of people who were there on their parents' dime and didn't take it nearly as seriously as those who had a financial hand in their education. I've seen way too many people grow up with a sense of entitlement to whatever, whenever without the slightest idea of something's value because their parents paid for their cars, car insurance, cell phones, college education and weddings. These are the same people that needed financial assistance from their parents after completing their degrees to buy a house and get a car loan because they unfortunately had no established credit (not having had to take out any student loans).

Dh and I are on the same page (thankfully) that yes there is a sense of accomplishment when you achieve these things and had a financial hand in it as well. That being said, I do not plan on not planning for my kids' college educations and weddings......I don't want them to struggle for these things, rather I want them to earn them and feel proud of their contribution.

juliane2004 · July 2011

I don't have plans to pay for college. I paid for my own college through student loans (and I'm still paying! LOL).

We are trying for #3.

CaitlinJ22 · July 2011

Jilybean17:
We have been thinking ahead for #3 but really, there is no perfect time, at least for us anyway. We don't have to worry about daycare since DH and I are business owners and alternate days at our office.
We decided to wait a bit longer to TTC #3 because we wanted the age gap to be bigger between #2 and #3. We just started trying last month
Did you have a hard time with your 2 while your DH was gone? You have to remember too that your 2 will be older and that much more self sufficient when #3 arrives! GL with whatever you decide!

I really didnt have too much of a hard time. I adjusted better than when I was left with a newborn and was a new mom. DD was 2 wks old and DH left for 3 wks and it was HARD, but I got the hang of it. I think with the first two we got lucky getting pregnant right away since he is gone a lot, it cuts our odds in half...so I think we'll TTC come sept and then hope to get pg by Jan at least. If I look at a calendar, there are only 2 months out of 6 we "should" get pg if my cycles stay the way they are now. Thats for the input!

kcisthebombdotcom · July 2011

I dont factor college into the equation.

While I do factor future costs like 3 in HS at the same time, food, larger car, etc. college just isnt part of it. Unfortunately I am not wealthy, and I dont foresee us being wealthy in the future since to make the big bucks in DHs field it would require being gone a lot and we are not willing to make that sacrifice. Nothing is worth more to us than time as a family. By the time my kids are college aged, it's estimated to be over $150k for a college education if they go to a in state school. If they go private, you can double that. Although we do save for college, I dont see us having $300-450k+ saved (or well over $900,000 if all 3 wanted to go to a private college). Unfortunately, my kids are going to take out loans and take on some of the burden themselves. While I plan to help out somewhat, it would never be for the total cost. I had the luxury of parents paying for school because I was an only child and chose a state school. In retrospect, I would have rather had siblings than had a free ride to school. While it's nice to not have that debt, I really didnt enjoy growing up the way I did. I would have taken siblings over an education.

thefarmchick · July 2011

I just wanted to say that we are TTC #3 right now and have been for about 5 months. We got pregnant cycle #2 with DS and cycle #1 with DD

We decided to try for #3 because we want a large family, are well (well enough) established on the farm and we're not getting any younger:)

thefarmchick · July 2011

I forgot the other thing I wanted to say, lol!

As far as DH being gone a lot, It can be really hard. There are times around the farm when he doesn't get to see this kids for over a week(and we all sleep in the same house). I am blessed because we have a daycare 4 miles away and it only costs me $3/hr total for both kids. When we are busy they go to daycare full time and I help in the fields. Juggling 2 kids is hard and I'm sure #3 will only make things more of a challenge but I'm sure we will figure it out!

TonyaCody06 · July 2011

Well I didn't get time to debate #3 but we already have 529 college savings funds for both my girls already and will for #3 when she is born (need their SS# to open the account). We plan on having college funds saved up before they actually get to college. Now of course this doesn't include cars, weddings, etc. I don't know that another 3-6mo would make a big difference in college funds as long as you save along the way. So if college is your big set back on a decision, then I'd think waiting longer than 3-6mo would be more beneficial in easing the financial worries. But then again...you may be paying for a wedding.

CaitlinJ22 · July 2011

Tonya&Cody:
Well I didn't get time to debate #3 but we already have 529 college savings funds for both my girls already and will for #3 when she is born (need their SS# to open the account). We plan on having college funds saved up before they actually get to college. Now of course this doesn't include cars, weddings, etc. I don't know that another 3-6mo would make a big difference in college funds as long as you save along the way. So if college is your big set back on a decision, then I'd think waiting longer than 3-6mo would be more beneficial in easing the financial worries. But then again...you may be paying for a wedding.

I dont think the 3-6 months would make a difference with saving...but the idea that waiting til after the school cut off could make DD and #3 3 years apart in school instead of 2, and that would help a bit when they are all older.

Honestly. I was just thinking about college, its not a huge deal since we wouldnt wait years to have more kids. Its a matter of 6 months really, I just was curious what others thought. My main issue is DH being gone, but that ain't changing He makes good money being away and is home 26 wks a year....so its worth it, but its hard when he is gone. I think we are a go for next month TTC thanks for your input, hope you're feeling well!

sweetpea2003 · July 2011

While college is expensive, in my mind it doesn't come into play when spacing kids. We have 18 years to save whether the children are spaced 9 months apart or 9 years apart. My son and daughter both have very healthy college savings accounts already. We put a certain amount of money in savings, and a certain amount in investments, and do so habitually. If we have number 3, we will do the same thing.

If you were planning to pay for college out of pocket at the time they attend college - yea - that is pricey and probably not realistic unless you are making over 500k per year (and honestly, by the time our kids are in college you might need to be making a lot more than that to finance 3 college tuitions at once).

DH and I plan to save as much as we can for college. Hopefully enough to pay for everything. We will tell our kids their financial situation so that they can make an informed decision about what school they go to (based on cost). If they go to a cheaper state school and have money left over or get scholarships or ROTC - the money is theirs to have once they graduate. If they decide to go to an expensive private college out of pocket and the money doesn't cover it - they will have to work or take out loans. It will be their choice. This is how my husband's parents did it. My BIL went to Notre Dame and spent every dime. My husband went to the Naval Academy and had a nice nest egg to cushion his salary when he graduated.

Good luck with your choice!

sweetpea2003 · July 2011

To those who don't believe in paying for college...

Do you really feel like it is smart to strap your kid with that much debt? I mean, you are an adult right now. You know that college is expensive (and only gets more expensive) and that your child will be facing huge education costs. If you can afford to put $100 aside a month to invest, that money will work for you all 18 years. So you are making interest and profits on your money for 18 years instead of having your kid pay interest on loans for 18 years after they graduate.

My toddler and infant don't have a clue that in 18 years they will have to make financial decisions like college tuition. They don't have the opportunity to save or make investment choices to prepare themselves. I DO. So as a responsible parent, I take that responsibility and make sure that every check they get I put somewhere and that every month we are contributing what we can afford.

There are no studies that show college students who pay for college are more appreciative, responsible, or successful. None. It is a fallacy that some parents harness to make themselves feel better IMO.

Raffes484 · July 2011

sweetpea2003:

To those who don't believe in paying for college...

Do you really feel like it is smart to strap your kid with that much debt? I mean, you are an adult right now. You know that college is expensive (and only gets more expensive) and that your child will be facing huge education costs. If you can afford to put $100 aside a month to invest, that money will work for you all 18 years. So you are making interest and profits on your money for 18 years instead of having your kid pay interest on loans for 18 years after they graduate.

My toddler and infant don't have a clue that in 18 years they will have to make financial decisions like college tuition. They don't have the opportunity to save or make investment choices to prepare themselves. I DO. So as a responsible parent, I take that responsibility and make sure that every check they get I put somewhere and that every month we are contributing what we can afford.

There are no studies that show college students who pay for college are more appreciative, responsible, or successful. None. It is a fallacy that some parents harness to make themselves feel better IMO.

Speaking only for myself, but it's not that I don't believe in paying for their education, I don't believe in funding it 100%. From personal experience, my parents paid for my first 3 semeters in college, but after that because I wasn't taking it seriously, it was on my dime. It made me not want to waste my time or money skipping class or not studying. The same could also be said for my brother. My sister doesn't seem to care whose money it is. She has taken out student loans, had money given to her from my grandparents, parents and uncle, but still has yet to finish anything, sometimes she doesn't even finish the semester.

I want to help my kids, but I don't want to hand it to them, nor do I think we'll be able to. Even when it comes to their weddings, I plan to help them a bit financially, but I think that they should have to pay for some of it themselves.

It may or may not give them a greater sense of responsibility, but that is my hope for them.

Bride2b2004 · July 2011

sweetpea2003:
To those who don't believe in paying for college...
Do you really feel like it is smart to strap your kid with that much debt? I mean, you are an adult right now. You know that college is expensive (and only gets more expensive) and that your child will be facing huge education costs. If you can afford to put $100 aside a month to invest, that money will work for you all 18 years. So you are making interest and profits on your money for 18 years instead of having your kid pay interest on loans for 18 years after they graduate.
My toddler and infant don't have a clue that in 18 years they will have to make financial decisions like college tuition. They don't have the opportunity to save or make investment choices to prepare themselves. I DO. So as a responsible parent, I take that responsibility and make sure that every check they get I put somewhere and that every month we are contributing what we can afford.
There are no studies that show college students who pay for college are more appreciative, responsible, or successful. None. It is a fallacy that some parents harness to make themselves feel better IMO.

Why would you word this in such a confrontational manner? Addressing it as you did and then ranting on about your opinions seems strange to me. Everyone else stuck to just expressing their thoughts, not attacking anyone else's. This, like many parenting decisions, leaves plenty of room for reasonable minds to disagree, but the way you worded your post makes me feel compelled to respond. Make your own decisions, I will make mine-- how would you feel if I asked you "Do you really feel like it is smart to strap your kid with a sense of entitlement and not only a lack of appreciation for the cost of education but also for what it takes to earn a dollar and how little you get these days with it?" You might feel a tad defensive.

Your "strap" them with debt comment is completely ridiculous (allowing them to be responsible for their own choices at the price, or partial price, of those choices is not strapping them with anything). I think the decision to SAH with my children (and forgo a 6 figure salary that we *could* turn over to a college savings account-- *how irresponsible of us*) offers greater benefit to them than the possibility of being loan-free at 23. Maybe your toddler and infant can't understand saving for college, but my 5 year old is starting to... yes, we put his checks/cash in savings (IMO, that is only fair and has nothing to do with the topic at hand) and he participates in helping us make deposits into his savings account, but extra money we have is our decision to make for the best interest of our family. Especially because of our SAHM decision, money isn't unlimited and sometimes we need to make tough choices... and when we choose to use that extra $100 you mentioned to go to retirement (which we could borrow against if we choose to) is a choice made in large part in consideration of our children, to prevent them from feeling responsible for supporting their aging parents when they are trying to start their own families (at least they have LONG term loans for school with favorable interest rates, no such luck when you need to take care of mom or help pay for hospital bills). And, no, there aren't "studies" for every topic under the sun, but there's plenty of anecdotal in my life that shows that being required to take responsibility for at least part of college costs is a valuable life experience...so I have no problem with any or all of my kids participating in that.

kcisthebombdotcom · July 2011

sweetpea2003:

To those who don't believe in paying for college...

Do you really feel like it is smart to strap your kid with that much debt? I mean, you are an adult right now. You know that college is expensive (and only gets more expensive) and that your child will be facing huge education costs. If you can afford to put $100 aside a month to invest, that money will work for you all 18 years. So you are making interest and profits on your money for 18 years instead of having your kid pay interest on loans for 18 years after they graduate.

My toddler and infant don't have a clue that in 18 years they will have to make financial decisions like college tuition. They don't have the opportunity to save or make investment choices to prepare themselves. I DO. So as a responsible parent, I take that responsibility and make sure that every check they get I put somewhere and that every month we are contributing what we can afford.

There are no studies that show college students who pay for college are more appreciative, responsible, or successful. None. It is a fallacy that some parents harness to make themselves feel better IMO.

While I contribute to college accounts, I certantly dont agree that I will be paying for college for all of my children (we may have 1 more child). While saving $100 a month is great and what we do for the kids, that's certainly not going to be able to finance a college education in 18 years especially if all 3 wanted to go to private colleges. That would cost close to a million dollars. Even if all 3 went to state schools, it would still be in the range of $600k taking into consideration what college will cost in the future.

Student loans=good debt.

I also agree with the PP that said that saving for retirement should trump saving for college. It will be a much greater burden on the children if they have to take care of their parents vs paying for school which may be a moot point if they get a scholorship, go into a trade and dont need school, etc.

CaitlinJ22 · July 2011

WOW this really turned into a debate

we plan on saving as much as we can, and putting monetary gifts from family their accounts, but I highly doubt we'll be able to save up enough for all our kids. We want at least one more, maybe two more. My parents paid what they could and I had to do financial aid for most. Yes its not fun having debt, but even with DH making a nice salary and having the possibilty of making captain one day and making and even NICER one...we doubt their colleges will all be paid for.

KRISTA555 · July 2011

in regard to college:

In our priorities, our savings and retirement come first. If we can provide college for our children, we will, but it is not top on our list. They will survive just fine if they have to work their way through college and/or get scholarships & grants. It will also be a gift to them if they don't have to (or feel obligated to) help support my husband and I in our golden years.

CaitlinJ22 · July 2011

KRISTA555:
in regard to college:
In our priorities, our savings and retirement come first. If we can provide college for our children, we will, but it is not top on our list. They will survive just fine if they have to work their way through college and/or get scholarships & grants. It will also be a gift to them if they don't have to (or feel obligated to) help support my husband and I in our golden years.

I totally agree.

HarrietNJMommy · July 2011

KRISTA555:
in regard to college:

In our priorities, our savings and retirement come first. If we can provide college for our children, we will, but it is not top on our list. They will survive just fine if they have to work their way through college and/or get scholarships & grants. It will also be a gift to them if they don't have to (or feel obligated to) help support my husband and I in our golden years.

Very well said. We're in a good financial situation where I started saving for retirement at age 23, and my DH started as soon as he finished his PhD (he was 27). We are (I was, since I no longer work) at the absolute maximum for retirement savings each year. So, we save for retirement FIRST, then for college and everything else.

My issue was not the paying for college (we plan on it for all of our kids), but the attitude that if you pay for it yourself you'll appreciate it more. I still disagree with that statement.

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