WWYD? Woman physically and emotionally abusing her kids at Ikea

Sinafey · July 2011

We just got back from a loooong shopping trip in which DD and I basically followed this horrible mom through the store. She had 2 kids, a girl around 7 and a boy around 4. Any time either of them would ask her a question (what's that? pointing at some strangely shaped lamp) she'd call them stupid and tell them to shut up or get beaten. She hit the girl several times, but no harder than a spanking parent probably would.

What should I have done? I don't think that the hitting I saw would necessarily be considered abuse, but the way she talked to them definitely was. Obviously I don't know her info to call CPS and I didn't think it really warranted a 911 call, so I didn't do anything other than give her some looks and pity her poor children but now I feel awful. Ugh Sad

anna7602 · July 2011

Aggressive people like that scare me. I've mentioned this on the board before, but my father had his nose broken once while trying to help a woman whose boyfriend was hitting her on the street. I think my father absolutely did the right thing, but still, in your situation, I'd be afraid the woman would start yelling at me if I tried to interfere at all or worse, take more anger out on her children.

I really don't know what the answer is here. It's hard when you only see someone once like that, without any idea of what else is going on, versus knowing that your neighbor or a child you know is actually being abused.

anna7602 · July 2011

fredalina:

i would have been required to call the CPS hotline. (i'm a mandatory reporter.) The CPS workers can determine if there's a reason to send the police.

And before lurkers freak, just because you call CPS doesn't mean they'll throw the kids in foster care! They have to determine if there's any basis of abuse from what you said, then do an investigation that finds concerns, then get a judge to order custody to CPS. If there's no abuse, the kids won't be removed.

I actually didn't know that. It's helpful information. Thanks, Fred!

SteelCityBride · July 2011

fredalina:

i would have been required to call the CPS hotline. (i'm a mandatory reporter.) The CPS workers can determine if there's a reason to send the police.

And before lurkers freak, just because you call CPS doesn't mean they'll throw the kids in foster care! They have to determine if there's any basis of abuse from what you said, then do an investigation that finds concerns, then get a judge to order custody to CPS. If there's no abuse, the kids won't be removed.

Curious... in a situation like this, how would you know any personal identifying information about the family to give to the CPS hotline? I mean, you can tell them all you want about what's going on right then, but what happens next? I'm just thinking that approaching the woman could cause her to lash out at you or worse, like pp said, lash out more at her kids. And what is a mandatory reporter? How do you become one & why? Sorry for so many questions, just curious.

And to OP... Ugh. That situation sucks. It's so hard to see that happen. I would have wanted to call someone, but wouldn't have known who to call. And at the same time, if you do, does that make it worse for those kiddos or put you & your LO in danger? It's a sucky situation for sure.

Sinafey · July 2011

SteelCityBride:
fredalina:

i would have been required to call the CPS hotline. (i'm a mandatory reporter.) The CPS workers can determine if there's a reason to send the police.

And before lurkers freak, just because you call CPS doesn't mean they'll throw the kids in foster care! They have to determine if there's any basis of abuse from what you said, then do an investigation that finds concerns, then get a judge to order custody to CPS. If there's no abuse, the kids won't be removed.

..how would you know any personal identifying information about the family to give to the CPS hotline?

That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't imagine CPS dispatching someone to respond quickly to situations like that, especially since the worst abuse was emotional. Maybe I'm wrong? Surely there's something that could have been done though?

I agree with PP's about being scared to confront her. She was obviously taking out anger in some other part of her life on her kids, and I wouldn't want to contribute to that. At the same time, I wish that the kids knew that what she was doing isn't okay and the world's not so bad, ya know?

SteelCityBride · July 2011

fredalina:
I wouldn't know of course, but i would follow CPS instructions, and if that included following her to her car or getting store security involved, i would. i'm a foster parent which makes me a mandatory reporter (if i suspect abuse i must report it). Teachers and doctors are also mandatory reporters, and probably others who work with children.

Oh, I gotcha. It would be nice if CPS made the hotline more public so that people who wittnessed things like what the OP saw could report it. I guess that would lead to a lot of false claims considering there are so many variables - i.e. an isolated incident (not that that makes it OK) or different people's perception of what would warrant a phone call, but still, if it could help one child...

cstyles · July 2011

SteelCityBride:

fredalina:
I wouldn't know of course, but i would follow CPS instructions, and if that included following her to her car or getting store security involved, i would. i'm a foster parent which makes me a mandatory reporter (if i suspect abuse i must report it). Teachers and doctors are also mandatory reporters, and probably others who work with children.

Oh, I gotcha. It would be nice if CPS made the hotline more public so that people who wittnessed things like what the OP saw could report it. I guess that would lead to a lot of false claims considering there are so many variables - i.e. an isolated incident (not that that makes it OK) or different people's perception of what would warrant a phone call, but still, if it could help one child...

Anyone can contact the CPS hotline. If you contact your local Department of Social Services (or look on your counties website), you can get their number.

I "think" I might have said something to security. it's hard to say what I'd really do though. I am also a mandated reported (child mental health therapist), but what you described is borderline of what I have to report. Really crappy parenting? YES!!! Abuse? Maybe (most likely), but CPS's definition of physical abuse is that hitting has to result in marks being left (which is hard to tell by just walking by in the store).

My thoughts in situation like this is always...if this is how someone treats their kids in public, can you imagine how bad it is for them behind closed doors at home! Poor kids! Sending a prayer their way that someone protects those kids and helps their mother find patience and help.

SandiaPinaMama · July 2011

fredalina:

i would have been required to call the CPS hotline. (i'm a mandatory reporter.) The CPS workers can determine if there's a reason to send the police.

And before lurkers freak, just because you call CPS doesn't mean they'll throw the kids in foster care! They have to determine if there's any basis of abuse from what you said, then do an investigation that finds concerns, then get a judge to order custody to CPS. If there's no abuse, the kids won't be removed.

This. I've actually had a hard time getting CPS to get involved (I'm a teacher). I once had a student whose father punched her in the face (yes, he left bruises), and CPS did nothing. Even after they abandoned her at a homeless shelter, CPS did nothing. Fortunately, CCS (Catholic Community Services) came to the rescue, but there were other children in that home, you know? I wanted them to be safe.

As to OP, I think I may have followed her to her car to get a plate, and then reported to CPS. I've done this before. Problem is that IKEA is simply so large....

lisa5201 · July 2011

Are you sure she was their mom? Not that the situation is any better if she was a relative or caretaker, but it's possible this was someone who just didn't know how to handle children

Also, I possibly have a misconception of how an abused child might behave, but if they know their mom (or relative or caretaker) has a very short fuse, would they have continued to "bother" her knowing the consequences?

What I'm saying is that it might have been an isolated incident (and I pray it was) in which an overwrought mother/relative/caretaker behaved very, very badly

Whatever the situation, it sucks and I'm sorry you had to witness it. I don't know what I would have done either

Spenjamins · July 2011

fredalina:

i would have been required to call the CPS hotline. (i'm a mandatory reporter.) The CPS workers can determine if there's a reason to send the police.

And before lurkers freak, just because you call CPS doesn't mean they'll throw the kids in foster care! They have to determine if there's any basis of abuse from what you said, then do an investigation that finds concerns, then get a judge to order custody to CPS. If there's no abuse, the kids won't be removed.

Where does the law say you are required to report something not in the scope of your employment? I can't find the specific law.

Sinafey · July 2011

fredalina:
There is a national child abuse hotline: 1-800-4-A-CHILD. In a borderline situation like that, they can probably provide guidance about whether it would be considered abuse or not, and whether to get the local authorities involved (and they can contact the local authorities while you stay on the line).

I just programmed that number into my phone, thank you.

Spenjamins · July 2011

fredalina:
Spenjamins:
fredalina:

i would have been required to call the CPS hotline. (i'm a mandatory reporter.) The CPS workers can determine if there's a reason to send the police.

And before lurkers freak, just because you call CPS doesn't mean they'll throw the kids in foster care! They have to determine if there's any basis of abuse from what you said, then do an investigation that finds concerns, then get a judge to order custody to CPS. If there's no abuse, the kids won't be removed.

Where does the law say you are required to report something not in the scope of your employment? I can't find the specific law.

It was very clearly covered in the 36 hours of pre-licensing training we had to do. The instruction is that if we suspect abuse (not just of our foster kids) and we do NOT report, we can lose our license and potentially face charges ourselves. The instruction was to call the CPS office and let them determine what is abuse and what is not. i also don't think it's any of your particular business.

Here's a state-by-state listing: https://www.hannahsfaith.com/MRbS.html

I do not think you are correct that you are mandated by law to report outside of a professional capacity. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

lanie30 · July 2011

Spenjamins:
fredalina:
Spenjamins:
fredalina:

i would have been required to call the CPS hotline. (i'm a mandatory reporter.) The CPS workers can determine if there's a reason to send the police.

And before lurkers freak, just because you call CPS doesn't mean they'll throw the kids in foster care! They have to determine if there's any basis of abuse from what you said, then do an investigation that finds concerns, then get a judge to order custody to CPS. If there's no abuse, the kids won't be removed.

Where does the law say you are required to report something not in the scope of your employment? I can't find the specific law.

It was very clearly covered in the 36 hours of pre-licensing training we had to do. The instruction is that if we suspect abuse (not just of our foster kids) and we do NOT report, we can lose our license and potentially face charges ourselves. The instruction was to call the CPS office and let them determine what is abuse and what is not. i also don't think it's any of your particular business.

Here's a state-by-state listing: https://www.hannahsfaith.com/MRbS.html

I do not think you are correct that you are mandated by law to report outside of a professional capacity. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

Foster parents are mandatory reporters in most states. https://www.ifapa.org/training/mandatory_reporter_training.asp

That being said, I'm not sure what I'd have done.

amatistajoy · July 2011

Sinafey,

I am glad you posted about this. In response to PPs, abuse is NOT just physical. Abuse is mental, emotional, physical, or sexual injury. It also includes NEGLECT. I have been trained on this. So many people fail to report out of fear. NOTHING will happen if nothing is done. I recommend if you have any reason to suspect something isn't right, call and report it! YOU don't have to sort it out - CPS sorts it out. YOU don't have to prove it, CPS has to prove it before anything will be done. Sometimes it takes years and many reports before anything happens. Home situations change, worsen or improve... and CPS keeps a record of report history.

Here is a flyer put out by the Texas Department of Family Protective Services. It is useful to read even for those that live outside of Texas. I encourage everyone to find the website for reporting where they live!!

https://www.dfps.state.tx.us/documents/Contact_Us/documents/swiflyer.pdf

ETA: Sinafey, I probably would have followed the lady and gotten the license plate number if possible.

Birdies08 · July 2011

lanie30:
Spenjamins:
I do not think you are correct that you are mandated by law to report outside of a professional capacity. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary.
Foster parents are mandatory reporters in most states. https://www.ifapa.org/training/mandatory_reporter_training.asp
That being said, I'm not sure what I'd have done.

I'm a mandatory reported because of my profession and am not obligated to report anything outside of work (although I am certainly able to). It sounds like the rules are different for foster parents.

CDMay2006 · July 2011

Birdies08:
lanie30:
Spenjamins:
I do not think you are correct that you are mandated by law to report outside of a professional capacity. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary.
Foster parents are mandatory reporters in most states. https://www.ifapa.org/training/mandatory_reporter_training.asp
That being said, I'm not sure what I'd have done.
I'm a mandatory reported because of my profession and am not obligated to report anything outside of work (although I am certainly able to). It sounds like the rules are different for foster parents.

Lurker, here... I wonder if it varies by state; as an educator I am a mandatory reporter, whether the incident involves students or not.

JoannaJes · July 2011

Social worker chiming in here:

Laws vary from state to state regarding who is a mandatory reporter. I currently live in Iowa, and only in the scope of your professional practice are you mandated to report suspicions of abuse/neglect.

I used to live in Texas, where it is deemed that everyone is considered a mandatory reporter, and any cases of abuse/neglect must be reported regardless of your relationship with that child.

OP, in that particular situation, I would have probably alerted store security, but I can see how it was a tough call to make.

JoannaJes · July 2011

OP, i saw that you live in Austin. Thankfully, Texas law makes it pretty easy to report abuse/neglect. Here's more info for you:

https://www.rainn.org/pdf-files-and-other-documents/Public-Policy/Legal-resources/2009-Mandatory-Report/Texas09C.pdf

BelhurstBride · July 2011

OP, my mother witnessed something similar in Wal Mart a couple months ago. She alerted store management, who actually was already on the phone with CPS. Store management would have access to video footage as well as the make, model and license plate number on her car.

luvbeingmom · July 2011

In a retail environment, and if you're afraid to confront the parent yourself, I would say getting store management or security involved would be the best thing to do.

Most of us regular joe's don't have any kind of reporting mandate and so calling CPS might be out of our range for someone who we're just in contact with in passing. If it were a neighbor or someone you have regular contact with, I'm sure it's a lot easier to call CPS in those cases.

But I would let store management know, and ask that they pull her aside for the "disruption" she's causing. If this person is the type to escalate and get confrontational, let her do it with them.

Want a personalized experience?

WWYD? Woman physically and emotionally abusing her kids at Ikea

Re: WWYD? Woman physically and emotionally abusing her kids at Ikea

Choose Another Board

Search Boards