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Attachment Parenting
catdwg83
member
Any non-vaxers travel with non-vax kiddos?
catdwg83
member
Just wondering because our pedi is very opposed to our choice & basically said LO would die of measles if we go to Europe this August. Did anyone run into this issue? Did you revise travel plans? Take any precautions you'd like to share?
DS1- Jan 2011
DS2- Sept 2012
M/C- Sept 2011
2u2!
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Any non-vaxers travel with non-vax kiddos?
Several areas of Europe have much higher rates of vaccine-preventable disease, because, well, people aren't vaxed as well there as we are here.
Your risk really depends on where you're going, but you need to keep in mind that Europeans travel more than Americans and it's much more likely that you'll be exposed to diseases than you would be just out and about here.
Either way, you'll probably be better off asking your anti-vax questions somewhere else. Most of us are pro-vax here.
GL.
I believe it's possible to get the MMR early if you plan to travel internationally.
No, but someone in my town did and the next thing you know we had our very own mumps outbreak. Lovely. So glad my too-young-for-the-mmr baby gets to potentially be exposed to preventable illnesses because of irresponsible parents. Honestly, your kid is more likely to get autism/adhd/endocrine disorders, etc ad nauseum from the flame retardants in his jammies or from plastic tupperware, heavy metals in the dust tracked into your house, etc than from vaccines.
My grandmother had polio and my mom is deaf in one ear because of illnesses that we HAD all but eradicated until conspiracy theorists freaked out and brought them back.
I think if your pediatrician recommended not travelling to Europe right now that you should heed his advice. We cancelled a trip to SF when there was an outbreak of Pertussis and LO was too little to vaccinate because his health was more important to us than anything else.
I suppose it is your choice whether or not to vaccinate but then the responsibility lies on you to not to expose anyone else to any disease your child may end up passing on . Frankly I don't think that someone who chooses not to vaccinate their child (barring medical circumstances) is responsible enough to trust with that responsibility. LO will be vaccinated, on schedule.
JMO
Honey, I LIVE here in Europe. And I know just how deeply rooted this issue is.
First, and FOREMOST, the natural (for no better term) Europeans are less likely to vaccinate, not because they are scared about the vaccines themselves, but because they think vacins is bougois or count on the heard mentality or just plain lazy.
Which MIGHT have been ok, if there wasnt a massive influx of immigration (you do know that the US is NOT the only place with immigration issues and bigotry right?) from the Middle East, Sub Continent and Aftica. These peoples DO NOT HAVE THE FING ACCESS to the vaccinations, ***** so they arrive carrying the deadly, but easily controlled diseases with them.
The natural Europeans (ie the Germans, French, English, etc) are now becoming affected in RECORD numbers. France had 4,937 reported cases of measles between January and March ? compared with 5,090 cases during all of 2010. Do you see the exponential increase here?
Second and more importantly, EUORPEANS TRAVEL - even to the UNITED STATES. There are actual, documented cases of Europeans traveling and infecting Americans HERE. That means, your precious little baby is open to infection at ANY STAGE OF HIS/HER life...and not just from the South American Immigrants you MAY be wary of.
***** One of the many reasons why there is a huge immigration to Europe IS FOR THEIR VACCINATIONS.
Ditto this. Check the CDC-Center for Disease Control- web site, as well. I've traveled to or considered traveling to places with DD before she was vaccinated for certain things or where certain diseases are more prevalent, like dengue fever and yellow fever, and I checked both the CDC site and consulted with our pedi to evaluate the risks. I took the dengue fever risk based on a very informed decision and my pedi (who is from a tropical area originally) giving me her medical opinion that the risk was very minimal and offering her advice about how to further minimize that risk while traveling.
I'm amazed at all the rude and downright mean women on this thread. Why do you feel it is ok to swear at another mom's decision? She has obviously researched this issue and is trying to gain even more information.
And as a side...if you're child is vaccinated and "safe" from getting measles, how is my child putting your's at risk if he isn't vaccinated. Yours is "protected" remember????!!! Do some research before you assume all of us non-vaxers are idiots...we've done a lot of research before making this decision, knowing how controversial it is.
To the original poster: Research it more--you'll do what's best! (you already have!)
There are also natural ways of treating disease, including measles. Maybe check out a homeopath/naturopath before your trip and see what they recommend.
Because it's just that simple. Protected or not protected. Please.
Actually because I vaccinated my child on schedule that meant that she was exposed very young to those children who hadn't vaccinated. Jo was exposed to chicken pox at 5 months old because a woman had lied on her public health forms at daycare and sent her child in sick. Kid was 5. My child could NOT have the vaccine yet.
Keeping your child vaccinated means that those children who reallyd o have allergies or conditions which prevent them from being vaccinated are safer. Not safe. Safer.
And I guarantee her "research" involved "autismisintheingredients.com" or some such nonsense. Because there are not good reasons not to vaccinate.
wow - i'm shocked as well by the reactions as well. not very nice.
i don't know enough about the measles outbreak to comment on what i would do, but we've traveled internationally with a mostly non-vaxed baby, and have had friends who have traveled with 100% non-vaxed babies, and they have all felt comfortable, had pedi support, etc.
we went to new zealand on vacation (no measles outbreak, so diff than your trip) when our daughter was 4mo old, and we're doing a super delayed schedule, so she had only had 1 dtap and 1 hib shot. our pediatrician was 100% on board, but he is super supportive of no or delayed vax.
we're due with #2 in about a month, and we're planning another international trip (probably central america) for the winter. our 18mo will not have had any of her mmr (we are delaying until at least age 3 or 4) and our new one will probably only have one or two.
if you can get comfortable with it, i'd go for it. also check out the vax boards on mothering.com for more support/information.
good luck!
Uh, IDK if you realize where you are, but a lot of us have babies who are too young for the MMR vaccine. If everyone who's old enough has been vaccinated, then the babies who are too young are protected because there's no disease to be exposed to. If your kid gets measles and my infant is exposed to it, now they're both going to have a disease that was nearly eradicated before the stupid, uninformed anti-vax movement got started. Try Googling "vaccines: how do they work?" before you babble on about how a mom has obviously done her research because anyone who's anti-vax really hasn't.
Here is additional information if the OP is still in the process of gathering it:
Vaccine Refusal, Mandatory Immunization, and the Risks of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases, New England Journal of Medicine, August 2009
From the abstract: "There is evidence of an increase in vaccine refusal in the United States and of geographic clustering of refusals that results in outbreaks. Children with exemptions from school immunization requirements (a measure of vaccine refusal) are at increased risk for measles and pertussis and can infect others who are too young to be vaccinated, cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, or were vaccinated but did not have a sufficient immunologic response.
I don't agree with not vaccinating children, but I am not about to tear someone apart who felt safe posting here to begin with. She obviously did not plan on being attacked. This is a discussion forum, where many different opinions will be expressed, and should also be embraced. If you don't agree, you're not required to respond. She asked for advice, not a debate. There are other settings more appropriate for those things. But this is not a bashing site. It's for women seeking advice & that's what she was doing, nothing wrong with that. If none of you had actual substantial advice for her, you should not have wasted your times responding. As far as her endangering your kids, well, how do you know every single kid your kid meets is vaccinated? You don't, but you send your kids out to play with whoever anyway. When they're at the park playing with others, you have no idea what those kids are or are not immune to. And another thing is, I'm sure she thinks it's what's best for HER child, and as selfish as it may seem to you or I - you have to consider this: do we think of everyone else's child when we're making a decision for our own? No, we put our kids first, and what WE consider best for them. I know that I don't worry about other kids when I make decisions for my own, I don't have time to worry about other people's kids.
This attitude is the epitome of everything that's wrong with America today.
Yep.
Really you use chicken pox as your argument. I was vaccinated and had chicken pox three times! They were not mild cases either. Obviously vaccines do not always protect. But a unvaccinated child is not going to get your child sick if they are healthy. That mom was stupid for seniding her child if she new her child was sick. How do you know she lied on a public health form? Did you see the form? Did you talk to the mother?
We traveled to south east Asia last year on for a very special (and non-movable) family trip with DS who turned 2 on the trip. He was not on schedule for vaccs due to his own reactions to previous vaccinations. We had to work to get the very crucial ones in in time, and DH and I had to have special vaccs for ourselves. DS missed getting the vacc for chicken pox prior to the trip due to other illness and it was a big concern but the area we were traveling to didn't have an active outbreak.
Anyway, people travel with young children who haven't completed their full vaccinations schedules yet, and many of us live in areas of currect outbreaks (I'm in CA and whooping cough has killed dozens of kids in the last 12 months). I wouldn't travel to Europe with the current outbreak with an unvaxxes kid though I traveled the other direction with a kid whose vaccinations were not 100% up to date. The issues he faced were less life threatening than the illness outbreaks you are talking about. And our doc never once suggested we avoid going.
"Actually because I vaccinated my child on schedule that meant that she was exposed very young to those children who hadn't vaccinated. Jo was exposed to chicken pox at 5 months old because a woman had lied on her public health forms at daycare and sent her child in sick. Kid was 5. My child could NOT have the vaccine yet."
Why exactly is a 5 month old who has barely had ANY vaccinations in daycare with a bunch of kids who probably get sick all the time? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Unless you decided the money was worth the risk. None of you people have any idea why this mother decided not to vaccinate. It's possible she had really bad reactions to the vaccines and is worried her kid might too. Babies do actually die from getting vaccinations. Do I agree with not vaxing? No, but it's not your place to condemn her. If you want your child perfectly safe, then you can never let them go out, or do anything. As a previous post said, even people who have been vaccinated can still get sick.
She must take her baby to one of those fancy new daycares where they keep all the kids in plastic bubbles, lest anything spread throughout the building.
And nevermind anything a kid might pick up from a sibling in another room at the same daycare. Better just to keep them permanently separated until it's "worth the risk". Plastic bubbles for all!
There's been a lot of dumb in this post, but this might take the cake.
This.
WTF? Does ahill1889 live in a universe where moms get a year's worth of maternity leave before returning to work?
I just want to give you a world as beautiful as you are to me.
Um, the chicken pox vaccine didn't start in the US until 1995. And it is highly, highly unusual to get the chicken pox more than once. How old were you when you got the vaccine and then subsequently got the pox three times?