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Toddlers: 12 - 24 Months
StrawberryAlarmClock
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***This space reserved for photo of new squish***
Permissive Parents, Curb Your Brats
StrawberryAlarmClock
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WDYT about this article? Sorry it's not clicky:
https://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/05/granderson.bratty.kids/index.html
Editor's note: LZ Granderson writes a weekly column for CNN.com. He has just been named Journalist of the Year by the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association. He is a senior writer and columnist for ESPN The Magazine and ESPN.com, and a a 2010 nominee and the 2009 winner of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation award for online journalism. Follow him on Twitter: @locs_n_laughs Grand Rapids, Michigan (CNN) -- If you're the kind of parent who allows your 5-year-old to run rampant in public places like restaurants, I have what could be some rather disturbing news for you. I do not love your child. The rest of the country does not love your child either. And the reason why we're staring at you every other bite is not because we're acknowledging some sort of mutual understanding that kids will be kids but rather we want to kill you for letting your brat ruin our dinner. Or our plane ride. Or trip to the grocery store. LZ Granderson Or the other adult-oriented establishments you've unilaterally decided will serve as an extension of your toddler's playpen because you lack the fortitude to properly discipline them, in public and at home. And we know you don't discipline them at home because you don't possess "the look." If you had "the look," you wouldn't need to say "sit down" a thousand times. If you had "the look," you wouldn't need to say much of anything at all. But this nonverbal cue needs to be introduced early and reinforced diligently with consequences for transgressions, just like potty training. And whenever a kid throws a temper tantrum in the middle of the shopping mall it's just as bad as his soiling his pants to spite his parents, and it stinks just as much. If you had 'the look,' you wouldn't need to say 'sit down' a thousand times. --LZ Granderson I have seen a small child slap her mother in the face with an open hand, only to be met with "Honey, don't hit Mommy." I have seen kids tell their parents "Shut up" and "Leave me alone" at the top of their lungs -- and they are not put in check. I shake my head knowing it's only going to get worse from here. If I'm sounding a bit judgmental, I assure you I am not alone in my judgment. Remember that couple that was kicked off an AirTran flight for being unable to control their 3-year-old back in 2007? The child threw a tantrum, refused to get in her seat and delayed the flight by 15 minutes. In a subsequent interview with "Good Morning America," the mother talked about how much more understanding the passengers were compared to the crew that removed the family. That may be true -- but I'm also willing to bet plenty of passengers were happy to have a much quieter flight. An AirTran spokesperson estimated 95% of the 9,000 e-mails the airline received were supportive of taking the family off the plane, according to MSNBC. Responding to complaints about crying babies keeping people awake, Malaysia Airlines decided to ban infants from first class in some of its flights. I don't know about you but I would gladly support an airline or restaurant that didn't make someone else's yelling, screaming, kicking offspring my problem. And there are kid-free cruises and resorts for a reason. Children are wonderful but they are not the center of the universe. The sooner their parents make them understand that, the better off we all will be. This is the part of child-rearing people don't like to discuss, because socially, it's not OK to dislike kids. The ugly truth is it's the spineless parents who parade their undisciplined children around like royalty that make people dislike kids. Parents who expect complete strangers to just deal with it are not doing anyone, including their children, any favors. They are actually making things worse. Not only are their children allowed to interrupt social events and settings when they are young, but they often grow into disruptive forces in the classrooms later. And nobody likes them for that. I covered education for years and one of the biggest complaints from teachers was about the amount of time they spent disciplining students. Their threats were empty because parents sided with their kids. And, of course, the use of corporal punishment in the classroom is seriously frowned upon, and even punished. Spanking is not a cure, and should not be the first resort, but I don't think it should automatically be taken off the table when dealing with small kids. We're so preoccupied with protecting children from disappointment and discomfort that we're inadvertently excusing them from growing up. A young child slapping his or her parent's hand away in defiance is not cute, it's disrespectful. In my house, growing up, that would have earned much more than "the look" from my mother. If I sound a bit old-school, I am. If I'm coming across as a bit of an ogre, so be it. As a parent, I can empathize with how difficult raising children can be. There are challenges, especially within the framework of divorce, when parental guilt can sometimes blur what should be the best decision. But I don't believe making a child's wishes top priority is a demonstration of love. Nor do I believe I, or the rest of the world, should act as a surrogate parents for somebody's bad-ass kids. You wanted them, deal with them.
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Re: Permissive Parents, Curb Your Brats
It's soooo easy to judge parents, when kids are having a public meltdown. I know that there are a lot of parents that let their kids run amok(sp??), but those are the selective few.
I usually like Granderson's opinions, but in this one he's very wrong.
In my house, growing up, that would have earned much more than "the look" from my mother.
This comment is very true because back in the day - parents weren't afraid to apply corporal punishment. I don't agree with corporal punishment because when I was a kid my parents "beat" me on a normal basis. You didn't turn off the light when you left the room? slap. You didn't wash your plate after you ate? slap. You didn't go to bed when your parents told you to the first time? Super slap. If I looked at my mother in a way she thought rude - slap. You get the general idea.
It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Meanwhile a lot of us parents, are trying the best we can and picking our battles.
I hate it when parents don't even attempt to control their children! Babies however, I don't mind babies crying... that's okay. But children who understand the meaning of 'No' and 'sit your ass down'.... need to be controlled. Nowadays there are so many parents letting the children be the parent and the parents just sit back and take it because they feel there is nothing left to do. Those types of parents are just simply lazy!
My confusion is when to draw the line.
Babies crying is fine, because they're babies......
5 year olds running crazy in a restaurant is not fine, because they're 5 and should have manners.......
But, what about those of us in between. When I give DD "the look", she either laughs at me or breaks down crying and screaming. All the books say to ignore her tantrums and not give in to whatever she wants or she'll think it's a means to an end. I try to distract her or calm her, but that often makes it worse. I try to make sure she's not tired or hungry when we're in public, but it's really hard to prevent all melt downs. what's a toddler Mom to do?
"Nor do I believe I, or the rest of the world, should act as a surrogate parents for somebody's bad-ass kids. " Who's asking him to be a "surrogate parent"? Nobody. Mind your own business, raise your own kids, and I sure hope YOUR kids are perfect little muffins who never act out in public, or you're going to look like a major DB, Mr. Granderson. Kids are kids. Sometimes they act like a-holes. Sometimes that happens in public. And while usually I believe in removing my kid from the scene of the crime immediately to deal with the bad behavior, sometimes that's not possible. We're on a plane or we're at the grocery check out or whatever - I'm not going to overreact and make the problem worse. Sometimes riding out the tantrum is the best way to handle it, and I couldn't care one bit less that someone slumming it with me at Super Walmart is disturbed by my "brat" having a shitfit because he wants a candy bar and isn't getting one. Send the butler out for groceries and take a private jet if you're so perturbed by kids in public places.
He just comes off as very Judgy McJudgerson and it rubs me the wrong way.
(read it. you know you want to.)
anderson . september 2008
vivian . february 2010
mabel . august 2012
Mind your own business, raise your own kids, and I sure hope YOUR kids are perfect little muffins who never act out in public, or you're going to look like a major DB, Mr. Granderson. Kids are kids. Sometimes they act like a-holes. Sometimes that happens in public. And while usually I believe in removing my kid from the scene of the crime immediately to deal with the bad behavior, sometimes that's not possible. We're on a plane or we're at the grocery check out or whatever - I'm not going to overreact and make the problem worse. Sometimes riding out the tantrum is the best way to handle it, and I couldn't care one bit less that someone slumming it with me at Super Walmart is disturbed by my "brat" having a shitfit because he wants a candy bar and isn't getting one. Send the butler out for groceries and take a private jet if you're so perturbed by kids in public places.
I love you!!! You said it way better than I could.
Would you guys spank your kid in public? That is, if you believe in it... i was spanked and i feel i came out fine. Then again... I never threw tantrums or cried in public.
I don't even know if spanking is even accepted anymore!
Sorry I have to disagree with you this isn't a selective few that let their kids get out of control and do nothing about it is way too common. I completely understand that kids will have temper tantrums now and then and that babies will cry but that doesnt excuse people from being considerate of those around them. Too often I see parents just sit there in a restaruant while their child is screaming their heads off or running around like a crazy person rather than escorting them outside until they can regain control of the situation. Why is it so hard to say "Excuse me, DD and I have to step outside for a second and calm down" and then step outside to get things under control rather than letting your child fall apart in public?
I have seen couples out well past any reasonable bedtime with their poor child who is clearly exausted, begging to be taken home and put to bed as they cry and scream. Instead the parents sit there trying to hand their kid a Cheerio so that they can spend another 45 minutes out with their friends when they finished their meals long ago. Take your kid home and let them sleep everyone will appreciate it more believe me.
Do I think beating your kid is the answer no. But spanking and beating are two different things in my book (when used appropriately) and regardless correcting your child's behavior is something we as parents should always be working on.
Sorry I have to disagree with you this isn't a selective few that let their kids get out of control and do nothing about it is way too common. I completely understand that kids will have temper tantrums now and then and that babies will cry but that doesnt excuse people from being considerate of those around them.
You're entitled to your opinion. I have seen parents at the checkout line with the kid, trying to get their groceries, with the kid throwing a fit, etc... You have to get food you know? What do you want them to do? Maybe that's the only window they have to buy it. What's next????? - not lettting the kids out of the house ever because they're going to upset the people around them. Please.
It's easy to assume they shouldn't take their kids to the store to prevent people around them from getting upset. Please! We don't know every parents situation and to assume that their kids are brats or that they're permissive is really rude.
I think he's an idiot. Honestly, I find that I am annoyed, offended or inconvenienced by adults far more than by children. We can't make zones for "no loud, rude, self-absorbed adults," so why expect kid-free zones at the freaking supermarket? Adult-only resorts are a different matter.
Also, keep in mind, there are lots of disorders that aren't visually obvious. 1% of kids have autism. I have no idea what percentage have other disorders or illnesses that affect behavior. You don't know anything about a stranger or their child.
I'll post what I said on the Special Needs board: I kind of hope we get to ruin his flight someday.
SN aside, he has unrealistic expectations. What he's forgetting is that when he hears (typical) kids pitching a fit, perhaps it's because the parents indeed have a spine and just said NO. The quiet little angels he doesn't even notice might possibly be getting every toy or candy they point to. Point being, tantrums are in no way symptomatic of poor parenting. They are an age-appropriate challenge we all must deal with...some more than others.
::starts the slow clap::
This!
I have another thought about this, since I keep seeing this article everywhere. What bugs me about this guy is how ironic his article is. I think he is the exact kind of bratty child he is writing about. Annoying people, adults or children, are a fact of life. And no amount of passive-aggressive ranting passed off as "journalism" will ever impact that. Yet I think he is just self-absorbed enough to believe that he really is entitled to a kid-free zone, a.k.a. an annoyance-free zone.
I'm not sure his mom did give him "the look" so much as the message that the world revolves around him and that stomping his foot and whining (which I feel is the essence of this article) will always get him his way.
This article really rubs me the wrong way. My younger daughter frequently throws a fit when we are shopping. She hates shopping and hates that she has to stay with me. While I try to get shopping done when I can go alone, DH works long hours so it's not always possible. I actually refuse to leave the grocery store or target because she's freaking out. All that would teach her is that if she cries she doesn't have to shop anymore. I also refuse to bribe her through the store with treats. Grocery shopping is something she has to learn to behave through and I figure inconveniencing people with it in the short-term is worth the long-term lesson that shopping is part of life.
And I have a three year old that many people would assume is 5 (she's taller than her 5.5 year old cousin and equally verbal with a larger vocabulary than said cousin). Sometimes I do get stares from people thinking I'm letting a 5 year old get away with 3 year old behavior. When possible I make an out loud comment about her age and usually that changes the looks I'm getting from judgment to understanding. For a 3 year old she's very well behaved, if she were 5 I would say she was immature. He probably would not take time to acknowledge that difference and would judge based on how old she appears on the surface and say that I'm not parenting.
I do avoid taking the girls out during nap time or in the evening or to events that are mostly meant for adults, but you can't always avoid everything. How will a child learn how to behave in a certain setting if they aren't taken there? I'm hoping my methods are working so by the time my kids are elementary school aged they will behave well no matter where I take them, and my 3 year old is getting much better every day so I hold out hope, but I can't just keep them home all the time while waiting for them to learn how to behave.
And let's face it, I don't spank but if I did I wouldn't in public because someone would assume it was indicative of abuse at home and call child services on you.
Hahahahahahaha what a tool. This guy must not have kids or uses duct tape when out in public.
I see a toddler throwing a tantrum and the parent ignoring them then I'd think they were doing the right thing.
My daughter screamed at the grocery store the other day because she wanted cheese and I wasn't buying any...I kept shopping and ignored her. The only thing that would have made her happy was to buy cheese and I'm not going to do that or she'll think that if she screams she'll get every single thing she wants.
And by 'the look' does he mean a look that says - stop it or I'll beat the cr@p out of you? because that would really raise a great kid...
As pp said, there are many more rude adults in this world that annoy me, and they should know better.
This idiot needs to stop writing.
My mother once kept making comments that she was annoyed by a young girl at Target who kept screaming. Looking at her I see that she might have some kind of disorder that caused her to act out like she was. She was a larger kid in a shopping cart. She either was bigger than her age or she was older & had a disorder. Either way my mother was out of line for being so annoyed.
I also find that sometimes I've just had it. If I do react than I might over react & where does that get me? Nowhere & it just escalates the situation.
I think I could take his article more seriously if he actually offered solutions other than "the look". Other than that he only vented about being annoyed. Most likely after traveling and encountering bothersome children. He also suggested corporal punishment which in my opinion is nothing more than the parent having a tantrum of their own.
I wonder what age range he is talking about. I mean if I saw a 10 yr old act like that yeah I might give the parents a side eye. A toddler under 5 yrs, not so much. They are kids & they have impulses & don't know how to handle them. I can get down to DD's level & talk calmly to her if she is throwing a fit in a store but if she is dead set on wanting that baby doll she isn't gonna stand there & listen to me. She's 3 friggen yrs old.
Now if she was 7 & acted like that her & I would be having us a good old sit down.
This article bothers me. I don't think I am a permissive or bad parent, but my kid acts up in public (like all kids). DD1 has sensory issues so she is very hyperactive and finds it very difficult to sit or stand still. This is something I have little control over.
It's kind of a damned if you do/damned if you don't scenario. You'll be judged if your kid gets away with something and judged by people if you discipline in public. I don't believe in spanking which I won't get into, but let me just say, try doing that in public and you will be getting the side eye. I myself give the side eye if I witness it. To me, spanking is lazy parenting and unproductive. I was spanked. I behaved because I lived in fear of my parents-not how I want to raise my kids.
Ok that wasn't what I was saying. I get that kids are going to melt down in stores. Yeah there isnt really much you can do about it 9 times out of 10 but people who take their kids to places that it is clearly NOT ok to behave in this manner and then do nothing to take their kid out of that situation deserve a side eye. I fully get that you need to take your kid out to shop for groceries, run errands etc. I do it at least twice a week with a tired grumpy toddler on my own after picking her up from daycare and yeah there have been times when she has thrown a fit in a store. Am I going to up and leave no. But if I got out to dinner with her and she clearly can't handle the situation then yeah I am going to get up and walk away from the table to get her to calm down.
I really don't understand why people get all up in arms when you say "be considerate of others and do something about your screaming or out of control child." We have a family friendly bar and grill by our house that everyone in our neighborhood takes their kids to. Most parents are really respectful and if their kid is throwing a tantrum or running around they will step outside with them but there are more than a few who will let their 3 or 4 year olds run up and down the restaurant, under peoples feet, around the tables etc, or let them sit there and just scream rather than dealing with their child.
I was on board with this in the first few sentences--- thinking, ohhh I WANT the look too!!!!! how do I get it & perfect it? Which I really do, seriously. We're really struggling w/ discipline right now & I don't want to be the parent who sits there & tries to rationalize w/ my toddler and says sit down nicely 8000 times and who gets kicked off a plane b/c my kid can't control herself and sit in the seat when I ask her to.
That doesn't mean I don't understand what ppl are going through when their kids tantrum or act out in public, but I think his (initial) point was that although kids will act out, its the parents who don't seem to react, seem upset by it, coddle the kids that bug him (and me, honestly). When a parent is ignoring a tantrum intentionally to get it to stop, you can tell by body language that they're pissed & trying to stop it by ignoring & sending a message to the kid, vs someone who is just letting their kid act out, IMO. And there are a LOT of parents out there who let their kids get away with a lot, whether it is just b/c they aren't comfortable disciplining in public or because they don't really know how or care to.
That being said, about 1/3 into the article, he turned it from something a little humorous that I could relate to & understand to a total rant & got really nasty and cutting and I was totally turned off. I think pp has a great point about him being the same tantruming bratty adult as the kids he's referring to- he starts getting out of control 1/2 way through and I couldn't even finish it, even though I was agreeing in the beginning!
As for why we discipline, I agree part of discipline is to make my kids well adjusted confident kids but part of that confidence & that good self esteem is rooted in being able to control your emotions & actions, I don't want to raise a kid who flies off the handle at the smallest thing & can't control him/herself or who can't respect any authority figures and wants/expects to do his/her own thing all.the.time, because that will lead to a lot of problems in school, socially, in the workplace, etc. It is not just about behaving well in public & becoming a 'doormat', but learning to control actions & emotions & understanding that there is a time & place for that- as toddlers, teenagers and adults. Just my .02.