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Adoption
Our Adoption Conundrum
It's a few years down the road I think but, hey, you ladies said you liked conversation. Your feedback if you don't mind.
H and I are pretty sure we are going to adopt a child at some point, after having had a few biological children, but it's becoming clear we weren't on the same page when we discussed doing so (back when we were dating).
Before I met DH, I always took my sub-fertility (I do not ovulate without minor pharmaceutical assistance) to be a sign that I should adopt.
I envisioned a child who was a little older (maybe 4-6; young enough to undo psychologicsl damage but old enough that their chances of being adopted were less) from a developing country (such as the one where H grew up, which has an adoption program. Specific country doesn't necessarily matter, H and I are different races, so a child of ours can be a third ethnicity). The US just has safety nets for unadopted kids that developing countries don't, so adopting an older kid internationally could be life or death for that child.
H apparently, assumes that there are tons of cute little bi-racial infants being born right and left in the US that just get sent straight to foster care. It seems he was envisioning adopting one of those, who wouldn't necessarily obviously be adopted. (Meaning, we'd tell him/her that he/she was adopted, but that it wouldn't be immediately obvious to random passerby).
I don't necessarily object to adopting a domestically born biracial infant, but it looks like for every such child, there are dozens of infertile couples competing to adopt him/her. It doesn't really seem like we'd be helping that child out at all; without us they'd just grow up with different doting, and likely financially comfortable, parents. We've raised a newborn, how about a kid who lts us sleep longer than 2 hours? lol
H seems concerned that a child who isnt a black/white mix would feel out of place and/or like hizzer family is too unusual looking. Reading between the lines, I suspect he's also concerned that maybe an older child wouldnt necessarily get along with the kids born to us (something similar seems to have happened to a close friend of his whose parents adopted preteens out of birth order).
Thoughts? Which of us is "right"?
DS Feb 2011
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Our Adoption Conundrum
Neither of you is completely right or completely wrong. I used to work in foster care. I disagree with your statement that psychological damage can be "undone". It can be overcome, the child can learn to function despite it but it isn't erased. And it takes a lot of work. Maybe that's not what you meant but that's how I interpreted it. As for your husband's idea of tons of bi-racial babies (or any babies) being sent straight to foster care from birth I've seen very few infants enter foster care straight from birth. In my experience those that do are either drug addicts or were abandoned at birth. With the ones who were abandoned there is still a chance that another relative can be identified to take the child.
The foster care agency I worked for also had an adoption department. That department did parental placement domestic adoptions and did homestudies and post placement visits for international adoption. There were dozens of parents waiting to take in white babies through domestic adoption. They had a very difficult time placing other races.
Basically you have to decide what works for your family and agree. An adoption agency will not work with parents who are not on the same page regarding adoption.
Thanks! A few things:
1. I did word it badly about the psychological damage. I meant it's easier to teach a younger older kid (ie a 6 year old vs a 13 year old) stuff like, there will always be 3 meals a day, Mommy and Daddy don't use drugs/beat you, etc. You have, say 12 years to keep them in therapy vs only 5. Make sense?
2. We're not officially beginning adoption till we get on the same page - the earliest we'd start is 2 years out. Likely longer if we are able to conceive additional biokids.
3. Are you saying that these difficult to place nonwhite babies are in FC, or referred to adoption agencies? And by nonwhite, you mean fully black, or just not fully white? H isn't necessarily set on adopting from FC, just seems to think there is a surplus of biracial infants up for adoption in the US, with a deficit of would-be a-parents.
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**
I agree that neither of you is right and neither is wrong. I think you should both educate yourselves instead of relying on whatever ideas you have in mind about the status of children in other countries and in the US. I don't necessarily agree that there are safety nets for kids who are not adopted. I don't agree that there is this giant demand for biracial children being sought out by infertile couples. In fact, some domestic agencies offer lower fees and/or fast-tracking for biracial adoptions because they don't have enough families willing to take on the challenges of raising a biracial/multiracial child.
I fail to see how a concern over a child who doesn't look like his/her parents/family translates to a concern over not getting along with the other children in the house.
So again, I'd say educate yourselves and see what your options are. You have time.
2) I'm very glad to hear that
3) The adoption department at my agency did not deal with foster children at all. The domestic infants they placed were being given up by their birth mothers, a decision that was often made by her prior to giving birth. They found that most of the potential adoptive parents who came to the agency for domestic adoption were only interested in a white baby. Those who requested a non-white child tended to be more interested in international adoption and had a specific country in mind. Please keep in mind this was the experience of one agency. I'm sure it varies from agency to agency and from community to community. On the foster care side of things we actually had more luck placing non-white children as the majority of our foster parents were not white. Not that the non-white FP's were opposed to taking on white children but sometimes the agency that held legal custody would prefer to place white children with white parents (this often had more to do with the bio parents than the child). However, on the foster care side there are very few infants. Those that are placed in FC at birth are usually either drug addicts or the birth mother walked out of the hospital under the Safe Haven Act and didn't make an adoption plan. There is an attempt made to find other bio family so those kids may only stay in FC for a few days.
By non-white I mean a person who does not have 2 fully white parents. This could be a child of any other race or a mixed race child (again any race not just a mix of black and white).
Thanks ladies! I'm glad I asked, I'm finding your responses really educational/valuable. Sorry, I seem to have really worded my first two posts badly!
@ Dr.Loretta - the two concerns (kid not looking like the rest of his/her siblings and not getting along with his/her siblings) were actually separate ones; H wasn't thinking one would cause the other. He knows someone pretty well whose parents adopted 2 older children, out of birth order with their 2 bio children... the kids didn't get along at all, and decades later still resent the crap out of each other. I think he was thinking if we adopted an infant, s/he would know only life with our biokids and thus possibly be less likely to reject them as siblings the way an older child might.
@Mystic and Fred - The debate is actually (a) adopt a biracial infant domestically vs (b) adopt an older child internationally, we hadn't discussed adopting from FC. Not that there is anything wrong with that of course. My comment about FC came from H's perception that there are way more biracial infants placed for adoption than there are people willing to adopt them, causing those children to be placed in FC.
Ugh, how disgusting about some agencies charging lower fees to adopt AA or biracial babies!!!
Sorry to sound like a dunce in asking for clarification of "nonwhite" - all the "how to raise a well adjusted multiracial kid" literature I've read says that you teach them they're both races. So depending on what the definition of is is, a white-and-black child like my son would therefore be both white and nonwhite if that makes sense.
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**
Some may consider it disgusting, some may consider it being pragmatic, and some agencies may feel this is the best way to place children who needs homes. It depends on how you look at it.
Well, there's two separate issues there -- first, the general adjustment of an older adopted child to a new adoptive family including siblings, and second, adopting out of birth order.
Adopting out of birth order is often discouraged by adoption professionals. You'll hear lots of talk from them about adjustment, maintaining children's "place" in the family (i.e., keeping the oldest as oldest), etc. But I think that the most important reason to be wary about adopting out of birth order is the risk that a child who has been abused might act out some of that abuse on younger children in the household. Especially with older children adopted internationally, there are so many unknowns. That's not to say that adopting out of birth order doesn't ever work, but it's something to be cautious about.
In regards to the first bolded area if a women places her child up for adoption and a match is not found that child is not automatically placed in foster care. If no match is found she can decide to keep and raise her child. She might have family step forward to take the child. For the child to end up in foster care she would have to abandon it under the Safe Haven Act (and efforts would be made to place the child with family), she could go to her state/city's version of the Dept. of Social Services and turn the child over (she still has the option of regaining custody) or not take proper care of the child and DSS will step in and take custody (she still has the ability to regain custody).
As for the second you are completely right in dealing with a specific child. In a general discussion like the is I use "non-white" because many people I have come across consider the term "bi-racial" to mean one white parent and one black parent. "Bi-racial" actually means two races, so for example a bi-racial child could be half Hispanic and Half Asian.
Out of curiosity why hasn't adopting from FC been considered?
Not that I don't see your point, but as the biological mom of a biracial child, I really am not the best candidate for looking at this objectively.
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**
A different thought/perspective--
I think it's quite normal for men to be more conservative w/adoption choices. I know my husband needed to see families in action to see other perspectives. Do you have any networks or opportunities to introduce him to families made w/older children?
Are you saying you live in an area where there is only one foster care agency and that you or your husband work for that agency? I have known people who were foster parents for the agency their parent or adult child worked at and there was never any issue. They just weren't assigned to the same case. Also, you mentioned that you won't be ready to adopt for a couple of years. In the foster care world that can be a long time to stay in a job. If the agency has an issue with your relationship to this person then they won't accept you as parents but might be able to give you some alternate suggestions. Obviously you have to make the decision for yourselves but since you are still in the exploration phase look at domestic adoption, international adoption, and foster to adopt. Just don't rule out any of those options based on your assumptions about the way the system works.
You've received a lot of great, educated responses. I think you have a bit more research to do though in personal education.
Some points that sound out:
1) There are far more full AA newborns and children who need homes than bi-racial - not that there are not plenty of biracial children as well but from your post it sounded like you thought that biracial children were flooding into FC. There is a picking order. I know that sounds offensive and brash but one of things that I think one learns on this road and as you get deep into the trenches of adoption and particular adoption of children of color is that it is a dirty dirty blunt world. The picking order: White - Hispanic - Biracial - Full African American.
2) Adoption agencies frequently have to turn away expecting mothers who will give birth to a full AA baby. Or, they are unable to match her with adoptive parents. The choice left to this mother is: turn over to the state or parent. Most often they choose to parent. The result may or may not be positive for the child or other children in the home. For example: Our son's biological mother chose adoption because a third child in the home would mean that she couldn't provide properly for all three. That was the reality. Parent the two bordering on able, or three and be completely unable. Back to your situation/comments: it isn't like healthy bi-racial babies (AA babies) are going to FC with frequency from birth. It does happen but most in cases it isn't voluntary - it occurs as a result of the parent being found (the definition of this is questionable and many times racist) unfit to parent.
3) I think it is a bit dramatic to state that because of a position that a family member or yourself holds makes it inappropriate for you to become a foster family or adopt from the FC system. There is a system in place. If you don't follow that system the judge will know and your adoption will not be approved. Anything outside of that - there is not likely to be a possibility for you to by-pass required criteria to become foster parents or adopt from FC. The rules are the rules. It is unlikely that you would walk into a room with kids and just pick one up (cherry pick the youngest/cutest) - I know images from movies of parents walking into orphanages doing just that are burned into our minds of how 'things work' but they don't.
Social workers, adoption lawyers, and people from every other spectrum of the process of protecting children and helping them find forever homes have adopted. You would not be exceptional in this regard.
Good luck!
I highly doubt that would happen. They have to make you go through the same thing anyone else would otherwise they could be cited by the state for not having the proper documentations.
I know that it would not happen either - that we wouldn't in reality be given special treatment - but my concern is that others might perceive that we were given special treatment. Many people don't let facts get in the way of good gossip. And often, regardless of the reality, perception can bite you in the buns.
The relative has a fairly senior and visible position - since we live in an extremely closeknit community, I'm not really that comfortable elaborating publicly, since I've already put out a few potentially identifying details and I like some degree of online anonymity. If I explained fully though, it would make more sense.
Again, the responses are definitely thought provoking, and extremely helpful/appreciated! :-)
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**
I do understand your concern about people's perception. Just some things to keep in mind: Certain parts of the certification process for FC and adoption are federally mandated as part of the Adam Walsh Act, others are state mandated. That is something that is usually explained to perspective parents so there is a level of understanding that preferential treatment cannot get you around an FBI background check. I also understand close knit communities. I grew up in one. Depending on the area fostering for another community might be an option for you to look into. Like I said before, look at all the options and do some research on them before you make your final decision. Good Luck.
You know that and I know that, but how many people really are educated on adoption, whether DA, IA, or FTA? The population of this particular close knit community in particular, tends to be, ahem, not the most educated/intellectual/etc.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm getting the impression that people are strongly encouraging us to consider FC adoption over other types? I'm just curious as to why (besides the obvious, kids in foster care need forever families too)? From lurking, I thought this board was a fairly even mix of "types" of adoptions (ie, domestic infant, vs foster care, vs international)?
Again, my impression could be wrong, and I'm certainly not bashing foster parents or FTA parents at all. DH and I are just 99.9% sure it's not right for our family.
...no thanks to my PCOS (Dx 2006,though should've been dx during maybe the Clinton years).
P/SAIF always welcome, especially if you share your sticky baby dust! **Looking to buy some gently used, one size Fuzzibunz. PM/Page me if you're selling. Thanks!**