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Washington Babies
To Redshirt or Not?
This article in the NY Times got me thinking again about something I've been pondering since I found out Sarah would be a June baby. Whether or not to hold her back a year when she starts kindergarten.
A little back story: I'm a June baby and my parents didn't hold me back in school so I was one of the youngest kids in my class. I really struggled in school and they thought I had a learning disability. In middle school I was diagnosed with ADD and put on Ritalin - mind you this is that they time that ADD/ADHD was really hitting the headlines. Looking back my mom and I have talked a lot about this and she and I both wonder if it wasn't just that I was younger than everyone else and not ready for the material, she's questioned whether or not she should have held me back. By the time I reached high school I caught up with my peers, they took me off Ritalin, and I didn't have a problem after that.
I've read about studies that back up the idea that holding me back may have prevented many of my struggles in school as I would then have been one of the oldest kids in class (Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell is a good read about the subject if you're interested). There are also studies that suggest that the age gap evens out by high school (as was the case with me).
I know I have a LONG time (well I guess not that long) before I have to decide but I'm curious what others think. Especially those who have or were summer babies. Would you hold your child back?
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Re: To Redshirt or Not?
The article has to do with children to enter Kindergarten "well before their 5th birthday", and she will be 3 months past 5 when she enters. And won't likely be the youngest.
I think you'll know more what to do when she is 4 and you can tell how well she is adapting socially and emotionally. Like, Megan is 4 and would LOVE to go to school now. She makes me "teach" her, she is starting to write and sound out words, etc. If she were 5, I would have no issues with sending her to Kindergarten now.
Then, Katie is very shy and behind her siblings socially and emotionally. So I'm working with her on that and getting her out and doing more one-on-one with her in hopes that I hopefully won't have to decide to hold her back, or hold all three back. They were technically July babies, born in May.
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This is something I've been thinking about since before N was born. His birthday is Aug. 12, but my due date was Sept. 9.
Cut off dates are so arbitrary. My birthday is 11/20 and my school district's cut-off was 12/2 so I started at 4.5 and excelled. That leveled off by high school as well. My sister was born 12/1 and she struggled until about 3rd grade (another leveling out period research seems to indicate). I was 13 when she started kindergarten and it was obvious to me she was not ready so I'm hoping it'll be clear as day to me in N is ready or not.
Our plan for now is he starts when he turns 5, unless there are some major issues. If everyone holds their child back, when does it end? There will still be a possible 18mo age range in the classroom the following year.
The other idea is to do private, more play based, Kindergarten at 5 and then enter public school from there, either in K or 1st.
Tillman's birthday is July 27th. His Kindergarten cutoff was Aug 31st. He is the youngest in his class (of only 6 students). There is a girl whose birthday is in May, but the rest of the class turned 6 before new year's day. Tillman is reasonably smart and VERY social. He was ready in so many ways.
However, it has been obvious that he has trouble with his behavior at school. I don't mean that he's rotten, just that the structure is difficult for him at his age (sitting still, keeping quiet, etc.). Now, his school (private, Christian) is VERY structured and has very high expectations for the kids. So, on one hand, a public K program, he might not have such a hard time with, but on the other hand, he's in a small class, so he gets more personalized attention to help him.
That's been my experience with Tillman so far. I guess my feeling is that it's not a decision you can make until you get there, and it varies so much by child. From my limited experience, girls tend to do better, though, than boys.
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This is something we are still debating. H has an early August birthday. She's totally ready academically. Socially is a different matter. She's a really sweet girl, but very shy when interacting with other adults and kids. (She's been going to a coop preschool since she turned 1, so she's been with kids on a regular basis.) I want to make sure I give her the best start possible. Everyone I've talked to that waited a year for kindegarten has said it was the best decision they ever made. My mom also teaches all-day kindegarten and also agrees to wait. Another mom said to me, "I'd rather have a bored kindegartner than an immature 17 yr old graduating from high school!" And I've heard it's hard for the younger student around 4th grade and then when puberty hits. One thing my mom suggested was starting at a private kindegarten and then moving to a public kindegarten the next year.
So much to think about and consider!!
I think it is best to decide on a case by case. I have 2 June babies and one August baby. I am a former elementary school teacher so if I see they are ready I am sending them.
As an end of May child, I was one of the younger but I was always in the top (reading group, math class...just had my weakness, spelling & grammer.) Most likely all of my children will enter K when they are 5, but if I see signs that they aren't ready I will work with them as needed until they are ready (I may even home school if I feel it would be more beneficial to the individual child.)
what is retaining? Does that mean repeating a grade?
I should add that my brother (march birthday) skipped a grade (2nd?) and my mom regretted it. He did well in school, he played varsity soccer and tennis, went to a good college and all... but he drove later than his friends, got skipped over for varsity soccer Junior year because his coach (who he had had in age group soccer) thought he was a sophomore, and he didn't even turn 21 til midway through senior year in college. And I think when he was 17 and graduating my mom wished he could have another year of being a "kid" and that she had pushed him too hard to grow up.
My sis and I are both September birthdays and we were in a Dec 1 cut off area so we were on the young end. We both did well. I was valedictorian of my high school, we both went to top colleges, etc...
Even with the fact that we all did well being young in our years, I would still hold a kid back who was close. I don't think there are any cons. I actually love that Ben gets another year to be a little kid!
I have nothing to add to this conversation but wanted to echo this. I remember kindergarten as learning the alphabet and playing. It seems a lot more rigorous now!
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Yes, retaining is the teacher-speak word for being held back, and from an education standpoint, waiting to start Kindergarten is a lot better on a child's psyche than holding them back after they have already finished K. They don't understand why they can't move on with their peer group, and it really upsets them at that age. I totally agree with mrs_smith's comment here, and most teachers would.
ETA: I was a late May baby. I was one of the youngest and the tiniest kid in my class by far. I was socially a little immature, but too smart to hold back. I did well in school during the early years, but was derailed by bad teachers in upper elementary (possibly a maturity issue), but there was no reason that my mom should of held me back (and I wasn't late enough in the year to really make that an option).
Each child needs to be assessed on an individual basis and no one should let their personal experience be the mitigating factor for waiting to enroll their child. Yes, your experiences in school are valid, but your child isn't a carbon copy of you. Wait until they are closer to entering Kindergarten, and then make the decision. You can also follow the advice of their preschool teacher, should they go. Preschool teachers deal with so many children each year, and they would be able to tell you if they thought your child needed an extra year before entering K. That's just my 2 cents.
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I agree with Katie, my DH and my Big brother were both held back in K. Both of them graduated HS at 19 years old, and I do think it held them both back mostly socially. I know my mother regrets holding my brother back a year, and I think my IL's are too selfish to see what it did to DH. He told me he was held back because he had a speech impediment (turns out it was a normal thing most young kids go through). I won't start T early, he's an early October baby so he will go in when he is 5 going on 6.
Liam's bday is 8/28. He started K this year and we went back and forth but he got into a "choice" school in the district and he has done fantastically academically but socially he is doing just ok. We love the school, love the progress he has made, and his teacher thinks he is doing well. She did not hid her hesitation when we first put him in K. I had written her an email saying I was concerned about his age and she responded that we needed to stick with our decision because studies have show that children do much better when starting later vs. retaining them. There is NO WAY Liam could repeat K now. He would be so bored and would hate doing that stuff over again. I think had he not gotten into the school he did we may have waited but the program is top notch and it was his chance. The teachers make a huge difference.
Logan is a June baby and we never questioned with him. He was beyond ready for K.
I have a September bday and in my day, the cut off was Dec 31. I started when I was 4 and excelled. I was in the gifted classes in elementary and AP everything and running start college classes in high school. I graduated at 17 and even had my first year of college done when graduating. My mom thinks I was bullied a bit when I was in early elementary because how much younger I was, I don't remember it that way though.
I enjoyed being younger in school. My mom did hold my brother back. He started K 2 months after he turned 6 and he always resented it. Even now, it still bothers him.
We are not sure what we are going to do yet. We will evaluate the situation when it gets closer. I can say that the learning goals in WA state for K is pretty high. I just pulled this off my districts site...
1. Read with comprehension, write with skill and communicate effectively and responsibly in a variety of ways and settings.
2. Know and apply core concepts and principles of math, science, the arts, social studies, health and fitness.
3. Think analytically, logically and creatively, and integrate experience and knowledge to form reasoned judgment and solve problems.
4. Understand the importance of work and how performance, effort and decisions directly affect future career and educational opportunities.
It sounds like Kindergarten is no longer about show and tell, and the ABCs!
Having a kiddo in K now, I will tell you that wording sounds a lot more rigid than it is. Liam's science project that he just presented (by standing on a stool during lunchtime) was about a fish. Three facts were they live in water, they eat, and they are gold and green. K is still about ABCs and socialization. They have a music class and PE where they are expected to be involved and listen. Math is learning numbers and addition and subtraction, the basics.
Both of these were me. My birthday is 2/22. Because I started in private school the cutoffs didn't apply and by the time I transferred to public school (4th grade), I'd gone too far for the school to hold me back (though they wanted to, simply because of age). So I didn't turn 17 until a couple months before graduation. Personally, I was perfectly fine both academically and socially, but didn't always like being so much younger than all my friends. (Many of them had more than a year on me.) I think it was mostly that I felt like my parents wouldn't let me do the things they were doing, and they used the fact that I was younger as the reason. I still call BS on that one.
I do think it can be really different for boys. DH had kind of the opposite experience from me. His birthday is 4/30, and because he skipped 4th grade, he was always WAY younger and smaller than everyone else and had a really hard time socially. He's really intelligent but hated school so much because of social issues (and moving around) that he dropped out and got his GED early. He would have JUST turned 17 when he graduated.
All that said, for Lila, we can't imagine holding her back. She's a mid-July baby, so she's bound to be one of the youngest in her class, but she's already a really smart and social kid. So, barring some major changes, I think she'll definitely be ready when she's 5.
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we think and talk about this alot with the twins.
Tony and i are both july birthdays (as are the twins) I went to K at 5, tony flunked preschool and went at 6.
Audrey I have no doubt will be ready by 5, Gabe, meh, he's a little socially younger, though just as bright, but doesnt have the concentration Audrey does. we might send them to the full day kindie at our daycare... and then see what happens. If they need another year, send them to full day kindie with kent public (full day kindie was just approved across the board for the district) or if they are soaring, send them to 1st grade. 2 boys, and I likely would hold off if needed. im sure not splitting twins, and i think holding audrey back would be detrimental. The smaller (18-20 kids) kindie our daycare has may be a good middle ground...
That sounds like a great option to have!
It's funny you talk about splitting/not splitting. Clearly I can't imagine splitting twins up. But I knew two kids in grade school who weren't twins, but were born 10 months apart! And they were in the same class. They totally SHOULD have been split! That was really strange.