Loughner not competent to stand trial

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

Your thoughts?

https://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/05/25/arizona.loughner.competency/index.html?hpt=T2

write2nicole · May 2011

Haven't read your link yet. It's a bummer but not surprising.

welcel · May 2011

My prayers go out to everyone involved in this tragedy. Including Loughner and his parents.

SpartanChick88 · May 2011

Ever see Primal Fear? Nuff said

cherry_Blossum · May 2011

I am curious as to what mental illness he has been diagnosed with. I have family members that have various mental illnesses and it would really depend what he has in order for me to make a fair (or as fair as it could be) judgement.

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

I just find it interesting that despite how meticulous he was in planning the attack down to the minute that they could rule he isn't competent.

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

Kredd88:
Ever see Primal Fear? Nuff said

I haven't seen it.

welcel · May 2011

emilydholmes1:
I just find it interesting that despite how meticulous he was in planning the attack down to the minute that they could rule he isn't competent.

Mental illness is a strange beast.

SpartanChick88 · May 2011

emilydholmes1:

Kredd88:
Ever see Primal Fear? Nuff said

I haven't seen it.

You will have to see it - it's Richard Gere and Edward Norton. Ed Norton plays a guy with a seeming mental disorder who murdered a priest

hippotree · May 2011

Kredd88:
Ever see Primal Fear? Nuff said

Dude. This was my exact thought.

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

Kredd88:
emilydholmes1:

Kredd88:
Ever see Primal Fear? Nuff said

I haven't seen it.

You will have to see it - it's Richard Gere and Edward Norton. Ed Norton plays a guy with a seeming mental disorder who murdered a priest

Hmm. I just might. As sad as the whole story is, it fascinates me.

LittleGus · May 2011

welcel:
emilydholmes1:
I just find it interesting that despite how meticulous he was in planning the attack down to the minute that they could rule he isn't competent.

Mental illness is a strange beast.

Absolutely. Prior to SAH I worked with individuals with severe and persistent mental illness (primarily Schizophrenia, Bipolar, and Schizoaffective). Even on meds sometimes the illness rears its ugly head and it can be absolutely terrifying what these individuals are capable of, but its only about, maybe 4% of the time. Unless someone has direct experience with these diagnoses I think its hard to really make a judgment. And that statement is totally not directed at you Emily for the record Just in general.

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

LittleGus:
welcel:
emilydholmes1:
I just find it interesting that despite how meticulous he was in planning the attack down to the minute that they could rule he isn't competent.

Mental illness is a strange beast.

Absolutely. Prior to SAH I worked with individuals with severe and persistent mental illness (primarily Schizophrenia, Bipolar, and Schizoaffective). Even on meds sometimes the illness rears its ugly head and it can be absolutely terrifying what these individuals are capable of, but its only about, maybe 4% of the time. Unless someone has direct experience with these diagnoses I think its hard to really make a judgment. And that statement is totally not directed at you Emily for the record Just in general.

That is why I find it so interesting.

LittleGus · May 2011

emilydholmes1:
LittleGus:
welcel:
emilydholmes1:
I just find it interesting that despite how meticulous he was in planning the attack down to the minute that they could rule he isn't competent.

Mental illness is a strange beast.

Absolutely. Prior to SAH I worked with individuals with severe and persistent mental illness (primarily Schizophrenia, Bipolar, and Schizoaffective). Even on meds sometimes the illness rears its ugly head and it can be absolutely terrifying what these individuals are capable of, but its only about, maybe 4% of the time. Unless someone has direct experience with these diagnoses I think its hard to really make a judgment. And that statement is totally not directed at you Emily for the record Just in general.
That is why I find it so interesting.

Oh it totally is. Completely. Especially since no one really knows what causes a bout of psychosis, kwim? I could tell so many stories from my job that people on here wouldn't even believe. lol. Interesting indeed.

I know so many people will be upset that he isn't competent to stand trial, but as someone who has done the job I've done, I can tell you it is completely necessary.

wife1014 · May 2011

While I would like to call bs on it, mental illness is a scary beast and I am not a proessional so I have no solid opinion on the situation. I am sure he was evaluated to the highest extent before they made this decision.

bstrangely · May 2011

i think this is why we need health care reform. EVERYONE knew this guy was dangerous.

https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/052011_loughner_emails/pccs-loughner-emails-show-early-concerns-accused-shooter/

it kind of bothers me that all the comments in this thread are about punishment rather than prevention. esp this:

"On Oct. 1, a campus police officer contacted the ATF to learn if Loughner had a gun. No record of his owning a firearm was found, they were told in an email.

Loughner purchased the 9mm Glock Model 19 semi-automatic handgun allegedly used in the attack on Nov. 30."

well folks? why aren't we mad at the guy who gave him a gun?

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

bstrangely:
i think this is why we need health care reform. EVERYONE knew this guy was dangerous.
https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/052011_loughner_emails/pccs-loughner-emails-show-early-concerns-accused-shooter/
it kind of bothers me that all the comments in this thread are about punishment rather than prevention. esp this:
"On Oct. 1, a campus police officer contacted the ATF to learn if Loughner had a gun. No record of his owning a firearm was found, they were told in an email.
Loughner purchased the 9mm Glock Model 19 semi-automatic handgun allegedly used in the attack on Nov. 30."
well folks? why aren't we mad at the guy who gave him a gun?

You can't really point the finger at one person. The whole system failed to catch this kid. Or help him for that matter. Sad.

wife1014 · May 2011

emilydholmes1:
bstrangely:

i think this is why we need health care reform. EVERYONE knew this guy was dangerous.

https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/052011_loughner_emails/pccs-loughner-emails-show-early-concerns-accused-shooter/

it kind of bothers me that all the comments in this thread are about punishment rather than prevention. esp this:

"On Oct. 1, a campus police officer contacted the ATF to learn if Loughner had a gun. No record of his owning a firearm was found, they were told in an email.

Loughner purchased the 9mm Glock Model 19 semi-automatic handgun allegedly used in the attack on Nov. 30."

well folks? why aren't we mad at the guy who gave him a gun?

You can't really point the finger at one person. The whole system failed to catch this kid. Or help him for that matter. Sad.

I think this happens a lot more than we'd like to think. The help is just not there unless you are asking for it!

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

wife1014:
emilydholmes1:
bstrangely:

i think this is why we need health care reform. EVERYONE knew this guy was dangerous.

https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/052011_loughner_emails/pccs-loughner-emails-show-early-concerns-accused-shooter/

it kind of bothers me that all the comments in this thread are about punishment rather than prevention. esp this:

"On Oct. 1, a campus police officer contacted the ATF to learn if Loughner had a gun. No record of his owning a firearm was found, they were told in an email.

Loughner purchased the 9mm Glock Model 19 semi-automatic handgun allegedly used in the attack on Nov. 30."

well folks? why aren't we mad at the guy who gave him a gun?

You can't really point the finger at one person. The whole system failed to catch this kid. Or help him for that matter. Sad.

I think this happens a lot more than we'd like to think. The help is just not there unless you are asking for it!

Definitely agree.

bstrangely · May 2011

emilydholmes1:
bstrangely:
i think this is why we need health care reform. EVERYONE knew this guy was dangerous.
https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/052011_loughner_emails/pccs-loughner-emails-show-early-concerns-accused-shooter/
it kind of bothers me that all the comments in this thread are about punishment rather than prevention. esp this:
"On Oct. 1, a campus police officer contacted the ATF to learn if Loughner had a gun. No record of his owning a firearm was found, they were told in an email.
Loughner purchased the 9mm Glock Model 19 semi-automatic handgun allegedly used in the attack on Nov. 30."
well folks? why aren't we mad at the guy who gave him a gun?

You can't really point the finger at one person. The whole system failed to catch this kid. Or help him for that matter. Sad.

i wasn't pointing the finger at one person. this thread makes me sad because it is pointing the finger at one person, and the community failed. you guys all sound sad we can't punish him enough, when the dude really seems to be nuts.

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

bstrangely:
emilydholmes1:
bstrangely:
i think this is why we need health care reform. EVERYONE knew this guy was dangerous.
https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/052011_loughner_emails/pccs-loughner-emails-show-early-concerns-accused-shooter/
it kind of bothers me that all the comments in this thread are about punishment rather than prevention. esp this:
"On Oct. 1, a campus police officer contacted the ATF to learn if Loughner had a gun. No record of his owning a firearm was found, they were told in an email.
Loughner purchased the 9mm Glock Model 19 semi-automatic handgun allegedly used in the attack on Nov. 30."
well folks? why aren't we mad at the guy who gave him a gun?

You can't really point the finger at one person. The whole system failed to catch this kid. Or help him for that matter. Sad.
i wasn't pointing the finger at one person. this thread makes me sad because it is pointing the finger at one person, and the community failed. you guys all sound sad we can't punish him enough, when the dude really seems to be nuts.

I didn't say anything about his punishment. I said it's sad no one helped him too.

Other posters, maybe but not me.

write2nicole · May 2011

cherry_Blossum:
I am curious as to what mental illness he has been diagnosed with. I have family members that have various mental illnesses and it would really depend what he has in order for me to make a fair (or as fair as it could be) judgement.

He was diagnosed with schizophrenia, according to the report on NPR this afternoon.

He is not fit to stand trial because he does not understand the charges against him and he cannot assist in his own defense. That is the standard. I understand that he believes his lawyers are conspiring against him, so that obviously means he can't assist them.

They are taking him to a federal facility with the intention of treating him; once he is medicated they expect him to be competent to stand trial. He can initially refuse treatment, but then they will seek a court order (which they will probably get) requiring treatment.

To the OP who suggested he's faking: The determination is based on 2 years of his history, interviews with people who knew him, and 5 weeks of evaluations with him. The reports were made by both a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

Primal Fear was a fabulous movie -- one of my very favorites -- but I truly don't believe that's the case here.

bstrangely · May 2011

emilydholmes1:
I didn't say anything about his punishment. I said it's sad no one helped him too.
Other posters, maybe but not me.

yes, eventually you did. i'm not trying to be nasty, but i was actually offended when someone brought up primal fear. i've seen that movie, and i don't think this kid spent a year freaking out his college as some sort of master plot to get away with shooting a senator.

for 's sake. what kind of country are we?

emilydholmes1 · May 2011

bstrangely:
emilydholmes1:
I didn't say anything about his punishment. I said it's sad no one helped him too.
Other posters, maybe but not me.
yes, eventually you did. i'm not trying to be nasty, but i was actually offended when someone brought up primal fear. i've seen that movie, and i don't think this kid spent a year freaking out his college as some sort of master plot to get away with shooting a senator.
for 's sake. what kind of country are we?

I don't think you're being nasty, I just disagree that I did. I've never even seen that movie.

But I'm too tired to care anymore about this for tonight.

write2nicole · May 2011

bstrangely:
emilydholmes1:
I didn't say anything about his punishment. I said it's sad no one helped him too.
Other posters, maybe but not me.
yes, eventually you did. i'm not trying to be nasty, but i was actually offended when someone brought up primal fear. i've seen that movie, and i don't think this kid spent a year freaking out his college as some sort of master plot to get away with shooting a senator.
for 's sake. what kind of country are we?

I totally agree.

I think people have a really hard time accepting mental illness under normal circumstances. You can't see that they are sick, so they are probably trying to get away with something. Mental illness is real, people.

ETA: EmilyD, I'm not blaming you. My agreement is with respect to the Primal Fear posts being offensive.

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