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Hawaii Babies
redshoegirl
member
night weaning - need help/opinions
redshoegirl
member
The boys had their 12 month checkup a couple of days ago. One of the things the doc asked was if we let them go to sleep with a bottle. I replied no, but that they still often wake up once a night wanting milk (probably 5 out of 7 nights?), so they do still get fed at night, which is essentially the same thing.
She recommended that because they have so many teeth, we stop doing this out of fear of cavities, or that we simply offer them a bottle of water instead. I've suspected lately that they're waking out of habit and not hunger, so we agreed to try this...but I'm not sure it's working, and am wondering if I'm wrong about the habit/hunger thing.
Night #1 wasn't a problem. They woke at about 11pm, wanted bottles and were offered water instead. There was some crying, but I could tell they weren't really hungry (different kind of crying) so we persisted and eventually they fell asleep and were fine until morning.
Night #2 was different though. Dash woke up at about 3am, and wouldn't go back to sleep. He continually woke up, fussed a minute, tried to go back to sleep for about 5 min, then woke up again, and the whole thing repeated. This is what he does when he's genuinely hungry - he doesn't scream or cry hysterically, he just cannot sleep. He tries, but his tummy keeps waking him up. (Will is the same way.) After an hour, I gave him a bottle and he went back to sleep right after he finished.
I don't know if Night #2 was because he's sick and not eating quite as much as he usually does during the day, or if he just still needs that night bottle most of the time.
I guess I'm explaining all of this because I want to know how (or even why?) you should night wean if your baby is still legitimately hungry? I know cavities are a risk, but it seems cruel to deny them milk if they're waking up out of real hunger and not just habit. We're going to keep trying the water thing for a while (I figure some nights it will work and others it won't), but I just don't know if they're 100% ready to give up that bottle, even if they "should" be at this age...I don't think I'd be comfortable trying to force the issue with them.
Thoughts? Opinions? Experiences?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: night weaning - need help/opinions
What time do they go down for the night? Do you try to fill them up at bedtime?
We started to night wean at 3 months or so, but she was nursed at bedtime (at 9 or 10) and then when she would wake at 2 or so we'd just rock her back to sleep. We even let her CIO after a month or so of going in to rock her back to sleep. My goal was just to get her to sleep 5-6 hours. If she woke at 4 or later I'd get up to nurse her. By 6 months she was STTN from about 9 or 10 till 6. Then I'd nurse her and put her back down and she'd sleep another 2-3 hours.
If they are really hungry I would give them a bottle and then brush their teeth before putting them back to bed, I guess.
I'm nervous about the bottle b/c my twin nieces both ended up needing a bunch of silver caps after their teeth rotted (supposedly) due to lingering milk deposits. That said, A wakes up around 5 am most days hungry for a bottle, and I still give it to him. I brush his teeth before bed, but I don't brush them after the morning milk because I'm asleep and he knocks out right after he puts the bottle down. Lately, he sometimes goes till sunrise before waking, so for now, I'm crossing my fingers that he'll naturally start to wake later and won't need the bottle until he's up for the day. That might not work for you, though, since their feeding is so much earlier.
I've heard others try the water thing successfully -- maybe the child learns to eat more before bed in preparation? Or perhaps you could gradually give less milk during the nighttime feedings until you're down to no bottle at all?
Bedtime is 7pm - dinner is at 6pm, so bedtime isn't too long after that. We don't give them a bottle at bedtime anymore (several months ago they stopped wanting it that soon after dinner), so they're as full as we can get them.
I wonder if this would work? We could try it.
I should add that I do want to get them off the night time bottles - I just don't know if I can let them cry when they're genuinely hungry at like 3am. (The more frequent times which are earlier - like 9/10/11pm - are just habit, but the occasional 3/4am times are actual hunger.) They eat like horses during the day - their carers at daycare constantly exclaim over how much food they can put away lol - so it's not like they're not getting enough calories during the day, but they may still need a little extra something overnight.
Yeah, if they're waking at 3 or 4 they probably are hungry since that's already 9-10 hours since dinner. I only let her cry because I was sure it was out of habit that she was waking at 2 and she should have been able to go more than 4 hours at that point. I would feed and brush their teeth I guess. Or feed them dinner and put them to bed later, if that's an option.
Wow you did this at 3 months old? I think their tummies are still so tiny that they want/need to eat. I guess it was also different for me because Bella was SUCH a peanut and needed as many calories as she could get. Besides that, when I was working 12 hours, she would reverse cycle and hardly eat all day (maybe 6 oz in 12 hours at times) and then nurse off and on all night... that's also why we co-slept.
Libby still is not nightweaned. She wakes at least once between 11 p.m. and 3 a.m. and I nurse her. When I am out of town, she gets milk in a cup and then rocked. We brush her teeth twice a day and we feel okay about this decision for now.
Like you, I am not okay with denying my daughter when she's hungry/thirsty. And I am so SO over "should..." I figure when she's ready, she'll do it herself. Seriously. Same with STTN (she's never slept more than 7-8 hours without waking, but if STTN is 5 hours, she's been doing that for a very long time), weaning, or being able to consistently put herslef to sleep (she's does this several times a week for sleep or nap without any tears/fussing, but most times we still rock her until she's drowsy.)
Many nights I can hear her tummy growling when I am nursing her. And she's eating WAY more during the day, but dinner is at 5 p.m. or so and she goes down around 7:30-8:00 p.m. I nurse her before bed, but I can see that 4-5 hours later she's going to need a little something. We've tried offering a snack before bed (and brushing teeth) but she's not really interested. For now, I take getting up in the night with my 16 month old as part of the deal. Nighttime parenting is to be expected and I think too many parents think that when the sun goes down that kids should just "take care of themselves." I am going to say trust your gut and go with your instincts. And just take more care to brush their teeth a few times daily.
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Thanks for all the advice!
For now, we've decided that since they're sick, we're not going to push the point...last night they woke up twice (11pm and 6am) thirsty and wanting water, so they got that, but were fine without milk. So we'll see what they're like once they're better. We do brush their teeth twice a day - morning and night - and will keep doing that.
And there's this:
I guess this pretty much sums up how I feel. Yes, most 12 month olds don't need a 3am snack, but maybe some still do - maybe my guys simply aren't the average and they're just not quite ready yet.
We've never had to force or manipulate them to drop feedings - they're very clear when they're ready to stop (e.g., when they were ready to stop having their bedtime bottles, they just persistently refused to eat at that time). So I kinda figure they'll be the same way with the 3am bottles? Especially since in recent weeks they've been skipping them a couple times a week anyway, so I think it won't be too long before they drop them on their own.
And as I said before, they eat a ton during the day - daycare often tells us that they had to give them two serves of lunch! - so maybe they just have higher caloric needs than average? And their weight is only at the 55th percentile, so it's not even like they're fat for their size even with all that they eat...although now that I think about it, their height suddenly jumped from about the 50th percentile to the 75-80th, so maybe all this extra eating is because they've been growing so rapidly lately?
Smart mama! You are right on Lisa...keep doing what you feel is right and that is the best for your boys. Who wants "average" kids anyway?!
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I agree. I feel that way about A's constant stirring and neediness during the night. Maybe he's not ready to go solo for the whole night, or maybe I just haven't figured out how to help him get to that point. Either way, I'm trying to be OK with it. And I probably wouldn't have such issues with it if I just blocked out the "shoulds" from my mind. We just do our best!
heh, i don't even think our pedi asked us that at her check ups...she did ask "is she sleeping well?" but that was about it
i definitely don't think you should push it while they are sick
but i agree that w/such an early bedtime, they're bound to have at least one "night" waking if you consider anything before 6am to be "night" (though i know some ppl do get up for the day before this!)
even when A wakes up at night to nurse, i always brush her teeth after she nurses b/c i also worry about the cavities... she is able to fall asleep on her own so i don't worry about waking her when i brush her teeth...she's used to it. so i would just keep giving them a bottle at night and just brush afterwards like Christine suggested...and i also like the idea of gradually giving them less to find out what the smallest amt of milk is needed to satiate them at night.
and this is totally an aside but .....how has everyone gotten their LO used to a toothbrush? i've always used a wash cloth and when i tried an actual toothbrush (no paste) it totally freaked her out! i will obviously just keep trying but wasn't sure if anyone had any tips?
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
We used the brush that goes on your finger for a while, but then all of a sudden he hated it, so we switched to a wash cloth. Last week, though, when we were on vacation, he saw us BOTH brushing our teeth in the mornings (he doesn't usually see that) and all of a sudden he loved the idea of the toothbrush. Maybe try modeling how *fun* it is to use a toothbrush and even let her try yours... then give her her own?
I think I read that by 3 months they should be able to go 5-6 hours without a feeding. And because she was waking at the same time, we decided it was out of habit and not hunger. Plus, I was home all day and she nursed all the time during the day. She definitely wasn't a peanut...she was in the 50-75th percentile for weight.
I was also at a point that I HAD TO get some sleep. I was absolutely going out of my mind...I'm sure you guys all recall my FB posts. There were times when she wouldn't go back to sleep and then I'd get up to nurse her because I figured she really was hungry, but most of the time B was able to rock her back to sleep and then she'd sleep until 4 or 5.
I don't think it's unreasonable for babies to go 5-6 hours at 3 months. My cousin had 5 kids and all of them STTN by then, somehow.
ETA: We did co-sleep until 2 months, too, so I could just nurse her whenever she woke at night but then she started to squirm too much and was keeping me up all night so we transitioned her to her crib. And I think for her, STTN was just a matter of maturing, not filling her tummy. And the few times she woke after 6 months and needed to be nursed were more for comfort than hunger, I'm pretty sure, because she would just nurse a little and fall back asleep.
We still use the one that goes on your finger sometimes but I also got Kaya her own brush. When she sees us brush our teeth she points to her teeth and makes a brushing motion with her finger. She's never disliked brushing her teeth, though.
We used washcloths until they were a year old, then just went straight for the big guns (a baby toothbrush, not the one that goes on your finger). We'd always kind of made a game out of brushing their teeth - we'd always say a cheerful, "Brush your teeth!" and smile, laugh, etc. while we did it, so when we transitioned to the brush we did the same thing and they had an initial WTF moment followed by big grins because they liked the sensation of the brush.
Our biggest problem now is that they think it's TOO fun! They want to grab it, chew on the bristles, and it tickles their tongue so they don't want their molars brushed. Ugh!
Oh, and as a random side note, I often sing the Raffi "Brush Your Teeth" song to them.
Lisa, I was typing one handed earlier so I couldn't fully respond. Like I've said, Bella has always been a peanut, even still and she eats like a champ. That said, she wasn't night weaned until 12-13 months. I honestly didn't push it either though. Of course I was tired and wanted sleep but she also went to bed at 7am and would wake between midnight-2 to eat. I figured that's a LONG time and she probably was hungry so I would feed her. Once she stopped eating milk in the middle of the night, we put a sippy cup with water in her crib. It's a sippy and she isn't a kid that sucks on it, she takes a drink and is done. Our pedi said as long as we weren't putting juice/milk in her crib it was fine and not to worry about cavities. I wake up in the middle of the night thirsty and so does Ryan so we figured if she was in her crib from 7pm-6am, she would likely get thirsty.
About the teeth brushing, we do morning and night. We ask her to do it and then we "help" her. She has her first dentist appt in 2 weeks! Where did the time go?!
This is what we do too. I sit Libby on the bathroom sink and she brushes her teeth with a toddler tooth brush. I use a tiny amount of Earth's Best flouride-free banana-strawberry tooth gel. She says, "brush teeth!" and toothpaste, so she knows what we're going to do. We do in the mornings after breakfast and washing her hands and face. And a night after dinner and bath. She brushes her teeth while I comb her hair.
I tell her to make circles on her teeth and she does. Then I get in there with the one that goes on your finger. She won't let me use hers, but she'll let me do the finger one. We've not taken her to the dentist, yet. My dentist said 2 years is best. But I guess it cannot hurt to do an initial exam now.
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