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Cincinnati Babies
NBR: Neighbor Trouble (kinda long)
K I don't know what to do and DH is really hurt over this. Let me preface this by saying that we are very friendly with the neighbors. We get together and have bonfires in our circle, we have Christmas parties, the guys all share tools (although mostly they're borrowing DH's as he has more than most), alot of us are/were pg together so we shared that bond as well.
Anyways on Saturday Dh was in the guest room putting some stuff away when we saw the 3 neighbor guys talking in the driveway next door. Our windows were open and he was about to yell out to them when he overheard this conversation.
Guy 1: We should go to Guy 3's backyard and sit around his fire pit later.
Guy 2: Sounds good. What about (and he points to our house)
Guy 3: I'll leave it up to you to invite him. But you could just "forget to invite him"
And then they all laugh.
Obviously, Dh is really upset about it. He doesn't have any friends, his close HS friend still lives at home and pretty much acts like he's still in HS and they've really lost touch. DH really thought he was making friends with the neighbors and now he comes to find out that they don't like him. What's worse is that everyone is so nice to our faces, but I guess behind our back they're talking negatively about us. I tried to help Dh and tell him not to worry about it and just get over it, but he's hurt. Plus now I don't know how to act around the neighbors. We always wave and have little conversations when we see eachother and now I just want to give them a peice of my mind! Dh has written them off, he's not saying talking to them and needless to say the whole sharing of tools is gone through the window.
So I guess my questions are this, how would you help your DH in a situation like this? Would you talk with the neighbors? Cut them off completely? Still be "nice" but cut back. On Sunday we saw Guy 2 and Guy 3 and they both waved and said hi and talked to us like usual so I'm confused, do they like DH or not? I feel like this is so high school and catty.
Thanks and sorry this is so long. I needed to get this off my chest and see what others thought.
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Re: NBR: Neighbor Trouble (kinda long)
wow. I have to say this kind of hits close to home. DH is a nice guy but can come across as slightly aggressive and talkative, which I think hurts him in the friend department. DH doesnt have very many friends either. At our old house we werent close to many people on our street. At our new house I see our street being the same as yours and this potentially happening. My heart twinged as I read your story.
My first question is--hold old are these neighbors? I tend to be passive aggressive (a weakness) and I would definitely not say anything to these neighbors and I think I would back off on being friendly. Then each time I would see everyone gathering it would break my heart not being involved. Sorry, I am no help. I see myself and DH in this situation. I guess friendships can tend to go through these statges. It sounds like the neighbors are being catty and childish. Maybe just be aware?
again, sorry i am no help.
Wow. How hurtful for your DH. I am the type that wouldn't be able to NOT say anything. I would feel like they needed to know that their hurtful comments were overheard. Call them out for being the douches that they are. And I would want an explanation for what was said.
I don't think there is any way I could continue being friendly towards them without having a discussion about what was said. Maybe see what their explanation is and make a decision from there as to how you are going to handle your relationships with them in the future.
And as far as what you could say to your DH to help him feel better about this situation, I'm not really sure what will help. I just keep thinking back to grade/high school (sounds like that is about the maturity level of your neighbors) and what my parents used to tell me: have faith in myself and my abilities, I know who my real friends are, I will ALWAYS have my family and "this too shall pass." Ha, that just took me back a few years!!
Wow that is really ****y! I feel bad for your DH just reading it :-( That is a tough situation. As his wife I would definitely NOT say anything-- I just feel like that would make things more awkward and not give you the long term resolution that I know you want. I would maybe just back off a little bit-- still be friendly when you see them but a little less chatty, hold off on inviting them over or trying to hang out, etc. Have DH conveniently not be around when they want to borrow something-- essentially let them see what they are missing out on! I am a firm believer that continuing on with life and being happy is the best revenge to negative people.
I would still be social just invite over some new couples-- dont let them see that you guys are all of a sudden not being social at all. Kill them with kindness-- be friendly but nonchalant. I dunno-- I am NOT good at the whole high school cattiness (which this TOTALLY is). Are there any other places that you and DH could meet other couples?
I am starting to think that this board needs to have a GTG where spouses are invited because I've noticed that MANY women on this board have said that their husbands have had a difficult time making friends and if nothing else all the DH's have us and our dorky internet friendships in common :-) ((hugs)) I hope things improve for you all!
This exactly! I know my DH would totally be in!
Griffin 10/2007
Not to put the blame on the victim, but can you think of any reason why the neighbors might not like him? Is he a sore loser at golf? Is he a one-upper or the opposite even, a poor-me? Does he drink too much at group gatherings or not know when to leave?
If your H has made it to this point in his life (married, kids, career) and doesn't have any friends (other than loser HS friend), I would raise an eyebrow about a possible social fail going on that your H may not be aware of. This might be an opportunity to open a dialogue with him about it so that he can nip it in the bud. Then I think I would ignore what the neighbors said while your H had time to work on it.
I say this from a 'no one is perfect' place rather than a 'your H might be a jerk' place. We have friends we have dearly - but they never know when to leave and I end up kicking them out of my house. It makes us reluctant to invite them at all. In the same spirit, my H can sometimes be a loud talker & overly boisterous when he's gone one beer too far (the rest of the time, people love him) - so we've developed a system where I clue him in when he's starting to raise the volume.
I agree totally! DH has very few guy friends. And I have no suggestions for you. I'm no good in the cattiness department!
I do think DH has trouble in a social environment and he really is a homebody wich doesn't help. He's not good at going out and meeting new people. Obviously I don't think he's a jerk or anything but sometimes his stories can get to be long and drawn out. He has a point to them, but it takes him a while to get there. What I don't get, or I guess what hurts the most, is that we always end up having a great time with the group. Everyone is always laughing, enjoying themselves and sharing jokes/stories. It seems like they were all being fake about it now and that feels like a slap in the face. Maybe I should bring this up to him somehow. He's really hurt, and I hate to bash his self-esteem any more.
Hell this has got to be prep for when Brynn get's to high school!
Your H sounds a lot like my H. I wish my neighbors got together like you all do. Maybe we do need to do a GTG w/ spouses included also.
I agree with pp that maybe it was just this one thing, maybe it would have been hard to fit in another person for what they were doing or something they didn't think your H would be interested in (or think badly of) so they'd "forget" to invite him to keep him from an uncomfortable situation?
My H has friends from HS and work, but I have very few friends anymore, most have moved away from the area for jobs and we have lost touch. I would try not to jump to conclusions from such a brief conversation since you say you all have fun at neighborhood gtg's. It could be something fairly innocent.
It must be very hurtful to your H to find out that people he liked and thought were friends don't like him.
To the bolded part: I have a very different take on their behavior. I don't find it high school or catty at all. They don't like your H, but what are they supposed to do, give him the finger and tell him to go F himself every time they see him? Of course not! They are kind and polite because that is the right thing to do and they're grown ups. And grown ups realize that you don't have to like everyone but you still treat people kindly and you're courteous to your neighbors because that's the reasonable way to act in the world. They're not obligated to hang out with him if they don't want to. But they apparently understand that the world revolves a little more smoothly when we all treat each other with kindness.
Honestly, what I find catty is the whole idea of "giving them a piece of my mind" and not sharing tools with them anymore. What in the world would you say to them? "Why don't you like my H?" I understand you're hurt and embarrassed for your H and that he is hurt and embarrassed as well. And I don't blame you at all. I think those feelings are very legitimate in this situation. But to "take your toys and go home" is not the adult way to handle these disappointments, imo. You all have to (presumably) continue to live next door to each other and in order to do that without a lot of awkwardness and drama is to go on as you always have - pleasantly, courteously, and kindly towards each other. And you and your H now know that you need to look for friends elsewhere.
I know I've already said a lot but I just wanted to clarify. It's not as if the guys were talking badly or gossiping about your H. Now if they were making comments like, "Yeah, that guy is such a douche and blah blah blah" then that is catty and high school. They basically said the host could invite him if he wanted but that they'd be perfectly happy if he didn't invite your H. But it sounds as if they would have still hung out if the host DID invite your H. So they're willing to hang out with your H but they clearly prefer each other's company more. I guess my point is that no one is obligated to like anyone else and how could you "confront" them about not liking your H? What would you say? They've not done anything wrong.
If your H has trouble making and keeping friends now is the time for him to learn some new skills. There are books, DVDs, seminars about communication and social skills. Does he have any outlets for meeting others? Does he play WOW? Volunteer at church? Have a fraternity alumni group? Play softball? Play D&D? It sounds like he needs to branch out a bit and maybe practice some social niceties, kwim? Good luck to both of you guys and I am sorry his feelings have been hurt.
I have to disagree with this a bit. I believe being two-faced qualifies as being childish and catty. And it really isn't kind or polite to act like one way to a person's face but another way behind their back.
I realize I am in the minority but I also think that acting like nothing happened and not bringing it up for discussion, is the immature approach to this situation. If they are all adults, why can't an honest discussion about what was overheard take place and be beneficial for all involved? It doesn't have to be angry or accusatory in nature but rather, could be presented in a way that gets the message across that the comments were heard, feelings were hurt, reasons for the comment and what to do from here. Although, maybe I am being overly hopeful in people's ability to communicate and work through issues.
I don't think it's being two-faced. There are plenty of people with whom I worked who I could not stand on a personal level but I certainly always treated them with respect and kindness when I interacted with them. Should I have treated them with disdain or been rude because I didn't like them? That would have been in keeping with my feelings for them but it isn't the adult way to handle things.
The reason I see no point in having a conversation with the neighbors is because it's a ridiculous conversation, imo. They don't like him. Why in the world should they be made to explain why they don't like him? My experience in the world is that when people don't like someone else they tend just to limit contact with that person and go on with their lives. They don't get together and explain to the person why they don't like him or her. How do you picture that conversation going down? And how does it not put them on the defensive or come across as accusatory? I just can't picture it in my mind being anything other than bizarre.
OP's H overheard a private conversation that wasn't meant for him to hear. There really isn't anything to discuss in my mind. I had a VERY good friend of mine's DD accidentally call me when she was playing with her mom's cell phone. I ended up overhearing a conversation between my very good friend and her H about me. I had tried to return a call to my friend and I had called her a few times not realizing she was in the pedi's office and that she had left me a message telling me that when she first called. So I heard her bitching to her husband about me calling and calling and why didn't I just check my g*ddamn voicemail! I never said anything to her about this event because it was a private conversation between her and her husband that wasn't intended for my ears. But you can bet your butt I check my messages before I call her back from now on.
But I don't confront her for being "two-faced" because she was bitching to her husband because I annoyed her. To do so would be ridiculous in my opinion.
I got the impression that their relationship was more than neighborly or even casual friends based on the description in the OP about how much time they spent together, the activities they shared in, etc. I agree with you that being kind and respectful to someone's face without really liking them on a personal level is OK...especially in a work environment like the example you gave. But this situation is not comparable, these were their *supposed* friends (not just neighbors) and they acted so to their face. But behind their backs, it seemed to be a different story. If indeed the comment meant they would rather not include the DH because they didn't like him for some reason. But I guess there is no real way of knowing the basis of the comment or how they truly feel about OP's DH if no conversation is had.
I guess I am the type that would rather tackle an issue vs. being left wondering why and letting it fester. Like the example with your friend, I probably would have said something along the lines of ?Hey, I overheard your conversation with XX and I wanted to apologize for interrupting your appointment with my calls. I hope you know it was a mistake and I didn?t know you were in with the Dr. It would be great if you just let me know if I?m doing something to annoy you in the future. OK?? It?s just my style?to each, his (or her) own.
I can get behind some of what Moesten's saying, but the thing is, they're limiting contact when they want to have fun, but they're more than happy to act like friends when they want to borrow the guy's tools. If I don't like somebody, I don't ask them for favors and then refuse to include them in social activities. That's a bit rude.
Whether he was supposed to hear the conversation, and whether they realized he was within earshot, it wasn't exactly private if they were saying it within hearing distance of his house. It was rude and hurtful. And I can't really blame him if his gut reaction is to say, "Fine, don't include me, but don't ask to borrow my tools either."
I understand having to make nice with your neighbors. I genuinely like my neighbors, but we sometimes have complaints, and no, we don't approach every little annoying thing with them, just like they don't confront us every time we annoy them. But if I'm complaining to my husband about my neighbors, you can bet I'm going to have the sense to do it in my house with the windows closed where there's no risk of them overhearing. And I just have a casual neighborly relationship with my neighbors. I don't think there's anything immature about feeling wounded when you realize you're being left out by people you thought were your friends. And I don't think there's anything immature about choosing to distance yourself a bit in that situation.
Photo by Melissa Nicole Photography
That is not necessarily accurate. They aren't inviting him to one (known) occasion. The OP mentioned that the group routinely gets together and has fun. The H is routinely included in the usual reindeer games.
I'm Team Moesten in that he overheard an out of context comment that was not intended for his ears - he has no idea what the true intention or meaning of it was, but is also being very quick to assume the worst about people he thought were friends. To me, that assumption is as questionable as the comment. If these are his friends, why not attempt to give them some benefit of the doubt? No one likes each other 100% of the time - not even married people - and maybe Guy 1 was just irritated with OP's H for a moment. A snapshot conversation out of context is not a good basis for what could turn into a very ugly conversation with long-lasting ramifications. If such a confrontation doesn't go well, how will it feel to not be invited to any of the neighborhood gatherings ever again? Will that make it all better?
I'm not saying that Guy 1 wasn't being tacky, but this as much an opportunity for self-reflection on the part of the OP's H as it is a reason for him to get defensive. It's all in perspective. To be perfectly honest, I've had similar 'should I/we invite so-and-so' conversations with my BFF about various events - and the so-and-so's could've been hurt had they heard the conversation out of context. But the discussion didn't take place b/c I didn't like so-and-so, it took place because there was another reason to consider whether the invitation would be appropriate. For all OP's H knows, maybe the 3 had spoken earlier about meeting up later with a person OP's H didn't care for and the part of the conversation H heard was just finishing up the location part of the gathering. Benefit of the doubt is as powerful a thing in a friendship as honest conversation. No way I would go after one of my friends on a half-understood comment I eavesdropped by accident. Unless it was outrightly derrogatory (which this wasn't), I'd leave it be.
Wow! Thanks for all the opinions. I really do appreicate it. To DH and I we feel like the neighbors are being two-faced. They seem to be all buddy buddy and everything but then behind our backs they are talking about us. DH was especially close to Guy 3, who made the comment, so that stings even more. I do see the other side of the story that he overheard a private conversation, and this may be a one time thing. He just can't get over that maybe this isn't a one time thing, how many other times have they all gotten together and not invited DH? I've told him he can't do that to himself and for all he knows, this was just a one time thing. I too have a friend who I love to hang out with but sometimes I just can't handle her. We went to high school together and sometimes I just don't want to talk with her. I still love her, but I don't want to talk with her all day every day. That seemed to help him understand a little.
DH also feels used when it comes to the borrowing of his tools. His take is "why go out of my way to help you, when you could care less about me?". While that might not be the most adult thing to think, I don't blame him. We've all be in that situation where we were getting taken advantage of.
To clarify my "giving them a piece of my mind". I'd simply like to tell Guy 3 that his comments were overheard and that we don't appreciate it. DH had worked hard on becoming friends with these neighbors and to him it was all a waste now.
I think we've decided to still be pleasent to the neighbors, but keep to ourselves a bit more. I'm not writting them off completely and I'm trying to get DH not to as well.
This sounds like a good plan. I am glad you guys came up with something you're comfortable with.
I was thinking about this situation again this morning. It occurred to me that the only person who said anything was Guy #3. Maybe Guy #1 and Guy #2 like your H just fine but don't have the nads to go against Guy #3. Just a thought.