|
My dear friends,
My heart is sad, and I need your help. I don't know what to do next.
Long story short, we just found out pregnancy #12 didn't stick. Story of my life.
Although it was a very difficult and guilt-laden decision to "lay low" during this cycle, I needed it for my nerves. And my husband asked me to. I feel bad, because you have all been NOTHING but most supportive in my journey. But after so many failed cycles, I just felt it was best to spare you the rollercoaster ride. I hope you understand. I kinda feel ok about this decision now, b/c it's been one helluva month.
---------------------
We just did a fresh IVF (#3) and I was TERRIFIED that it wouldn't go well. I couldn't have been more wrong, and to our surprise, it could have not GONE any better. Dr Sassy stimmed me HARD and FAST (450 follistim + 150 meno x 10days- freaky!!) and for some reason (rested ovaries?) that worked!
21 retrieved, and 13 mature. ALL 13 fertilized with ICSI, blew us out of the water!!!! We transfered 2 AMAZING hatching blasts on day 5, vitrified 2 that day, and THREE MORE on day 6. So I have FIVE frosties! Just amazing.
So how could this cycle NOT work? Right???
----------------------------
I started steroids right as I finished stimming, and my immunologist even doubled the dose at one point, as I felt my body flaring up. Dr. Sassy gave me the option to freeze and FET them a month later, but at that point, we had a GREAT stim, NO OHSS, and I felt great. It was actually a pretty pleasant stim, lol. (I only did lupron and BCP for a couple weeks, I think that made it a LOT easier) PLUS I was able to get IVIG on board the day prior to transfer. Although that was a bit late, it was the best I could do, due to some insurance crap. (It should have gone in at least a week prior, but I did my best)
But even with IVIG and huge steroids on board, my body still flared up. SOMETHING else is going on in there. I don't know what.
PUZZLE PIECE #1 - whatever response my body has, it's NOT squashed by steroids and IVIG. Um, that's weird.
----------------------
We got another hint with my betas. I got a BFP 5dp5dt. But beta at days 15 & 17 sucked. 37 for both, p4 28. First response to THAT was doom and hysterics. But then I reminded myself how my last FET in Nov started that way, and we got out of the gate with twins. AND I found old records for Ava that showed HER beta 17dpo was only 99. So I spent the weekend hopeful.
Today there's barely a second line on a FRER. (beta coming back this afternoon to confirm, but I'm sure this is over)
PUZZLE PIECE #2 - I don't make hCG very fast. I have NEVER had "good" betas early on. Never. Pituitary issues? Is this a SIDE EFFECT of a crap pregnancy, or the CAUSE of one? KWIM?
I've had hot flashes and cold sweats since BFP. (and severe scalp/body itching) Sure, maybe part of that is just normal pregnancy, but it just doesn't seem right.
------------------
Our choices, as we see them:
1. Be done. Enjoy being "one and done" and love our daughter to bits. I leave this as a choice, but to me, it's not an option. I NEED to mother others. End of story.
2. Quit ART and adopt. While I have no major beef with this option (and we've already put the word out re: private adoption) in order to do it in a time-efficient manner, it will cost a LOT of money. (facilitator) Money we don't really have b/c we bought into the IVF Warranty program.
3. Keep going with the IVF Warranty program we bought into. We have the (5) remaining embryos and then another fresh cycle, + those remaining embryos to FET. The deal is (3) fresh, all frozen, (must do frozen before fresh) = live baby +30 days. If we complete that process with no live baby, we get about $15K back. It's all "free" at this point, the only costs to continue are minor monitoring costs, and a disgusting $5K for stim meds if I stim again.
Here's the BIG ISSUE - We make good embryos. So at some point, I need to admit that we're pretty much tossing them out the window here. Ava stuck. I've had some others stick. (for a while). But we have NO idea why they did so. Or why they don't.
PUZZLE PIECE #3 - I have never stayed pregnant from a "stimmed" cycle. Any pregnancy that made it past those initial few days, was either non-medicated, or a FET. I don't know what it means, but it's beyond a coincidence, at this point, 'me thinks. I THINK THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT CLUE. Just don't know what it means.
I'm having this enternal conflict with myself and God, really. My faith is all but gone, but I care what He thinks? What? Does that make sense? I mean, FAITH is a very personal thing, and not what we need to argue about, but at what point do you worry about ETHICS and MORALITY, or can you chuck it all and just plow ahead in attempts to get what you REALLY REALLY want? (i.e. our complete happy family) Davez says "You're Catholic. Just committ the sin (continue the warranty) and ask for forgiveness after." He's only half kidding. And let's be honest, I've been distant from my faith for quite a while. So I'm troubled why it's even a part of dictating my next move now. (Catholic guilt? lol)
God isn't "doing this" to me, nor is He helping. So I'm inclined to leave Him out of this, and just go for what we want. Fear of being "unethical" is really the only thing holding me back from proceeding with our next cycle.
4. Gestational Carrier - (3) amazing beautiful wonderful and spectacular women have offered to carry a baby for us. All have possibilities. We are very honored to have this option right in front of us. Obviously I have the embryos waiting for her, but it will "null and void" the warranty, (i.e. no money back, or future fresh cycle avail) and even without compensated them in some way, this will cost us $10-15K (guess) in prep, ART, legal and insurance fees. While I REALLY want to experience a long healthy pregnancy ONCE MORE, I don't care if we have another bio kid. So we basically have to choose the GC route, or adoption. We won't have money for both. Or we save an embryo or two for them AFTER I actually get a live baby from my own ute and just find the money. At least one of the gals is young enough to consider this 12-18mos down the road.
5. Do more testing. Here's the rope with that... I can run more tests. Sure. BUT there's not really other treatments out there. Perhaps a little thyroid med if we can head the TSH/ATA route (a possibility) but doing IVIG is pretty much the "cure all" for everything I could have. Stay on the steroids, get more IVIG infusions, (I fear I just didn't get my 1st soon enough, booooooo) and maybe go nuts and go gluten-free... that's about all I can do to prep for a FET. And if we stimmed again, I would freeze them and FET them, NO MORE FRESH TRANSFERS. Done. It does not work for me.
6. What am I missing? What else?
-----------------------------
We're tired. I've still got some Tiger Blood left in me (not at the moment, though. whew.) but Davez is kinda "meh" to it all. He says the other morning - "We've turned into a bad version of 'Groundhog's Day' or something." And he's right. We want to be past this, in a very bad way. We want to get back to traveling, and thinking about moving out of the country. We're tired of no answers. Tired of bad luck. Just dog tired.
I'm inclined to add some thyroid meds, stay on the steroids and IVIG, and do another FET asap. If that doesn't work, detox and literally do the most natural FET we can. Maybe my body just hates being messed with? I can handle physically stimming again. Mentally? meh. It's all a roll of the dice at this point. lol.
I'll be talking to Dr. Sassy today or tomorrow, to get his thoughts.
My apologies for being so long. I kinda had to just talk this all out, and C&P seemed easiest. While this decision is ours, I would like to know what you all think. Your thoughts matter b/c you guys GET this. You KNOW how fecking hard this all is. There is NO clear black and white answer to any of it.
If you want to be more personal, you're welcome to email me. (david_and_tracie at y a hoo)
I thank you in advance for your kind (AND HONEST) thoughts.
| 
DavezWife
member
Re: Can I get your 2 cents on what to do next?
TTC in 2008. Stage II/III endo, Hashimotos hypothyroid, low morph (3%).
2 cycles Clomid/Ovidrel/TI/Crinone=BFN.
IUI #1 - 4 Follistim/Ovidrel/IUI/Crinone = BFN.
IVF #1 - Antagonist w/ ICSI 4/10. 17 retrieved, 5DT of 2, BFN
IVF #2 - Long Lupron w/ ICSI 6/10. 15 retrieved, 3DT of 2, BFFN!!
Lap 7/21/10
IVF #3 - Clomid/Antagonist w/ ICSI 10/10. 14 retreived, 3DT of 3, BFP 10/20 but m/c. No HB 11/15/10 - D&C 11/17/10.
FET - 2 blasts, 1 survived the thaw. Transfer 2/19. Beta #1 3/1 375, Beta #2 3/3 885, Beta #3 3/8 4261, Beta #4 3/11 9005. U/S 3/8 1 sac 1 yolk, U/S 3/16 1 heartbeat 114bpm!
James born Oct. 24th 2011 via c-section at 38 weeks!
Surprise BFP - Jack born April 28, 2013 via VBAC after PTL at 33 1/2 weeks!
OM gosh girlie! That is a lot of info. I wish I could offer you some advice, but it seems like you are covering your bases. I just can't believe that you have gone through that many failed pregnancies!
It has to be something not happy with the ute/immune system, I definitely agree with that.
I am not sure if this has anything to do with pregnancies sticking or just initial implantation, but have you done Beta-3 Integrin test?
Dx PCOS 2003/high fasting insulin/clotting issues DH Dx with low sperm count, motility and morphology. Varicocele repair (11/1/2010)
2/2011 - Confirmed no improvement - On to Donor Sperm
4 failed IUIs in 2010
IUI#5 and 6- with DS, BFN
Final IUI - Lucky #7! IUI with DS - 20.Jun.2011 - 21.5 mil motile! Not so lucky - BFFN and the end of our IF journey....
Waiting for our family to be complete through Adoption - May 2012 - Hoping our baby finds us soon!
I'm so sorry, hon. Everything about IF is so hard and these decisions are almost unbearable to make. If I were you, I would like try the two FETs as you outline in your post. One doing all of the things that have been recommended and giving them the appropriate time to work and one as natural as possible. I think if I did that, it would be clear to me that I tried everything I could. However, I know how hard a failed IVF cycle is and I would imagine having a successful cycle turn into a failed cycle is even harder. So, I could see where this might not work for you.
If the two FETs failed, I would probably try to do another fresh cycle, freeze the embies and try a GC. But, part of that is because MH isn't open to adoption at this point. Another reason is because I have a hard time spending money and then just giving it up. I understand that using a GC would void your warranty. However, it sounds like you should find success with a GC and success would make you not need a warranty.
((HUGE HUGS)) Definitely take time to think about what you can live with. I can say this is what I would do, but I am not on the same path as you at this moment. I don't make a lot of eggs and we don't get a lot of good embies. Nor would I have qualified for a warranty program. I have had two failed IVF cycle and am gearing up for IVF #3. I have a telephone consult with a reproductive immunologist because I believe that is the one piece that may be missing. I have an autoimmune disease and I have a lot of b/w that has come back showing immune issues. I have had some treatment for my immune issues, but I don't think my RE is as versed in this area as some of the reproductive immunologists.
Good luck, with whatever you choose!
~SAIF/PAIF/Everyone Welcome~
Me= 37 and DH = 41
Dx: DOR, Endo, APA+ (really high beta 2 glycoprotein antibody and high everything else tested), heterozygous MTHFR mutation, positive for lupus anticoagulant, high FSH, low AMH and both tubes blocked (per HSG on 3/8/11)
IVF #1 - long lupron (with HGH, intralipids, lovenox and BA); 4 retrieved, 3 fertilized; ET 2 blasts and 1 frozen = BFN
IVF #2 - a version of antagonist with EPP (with HGH, intralipids, lovenox and BA); 6 retrieved, 4 mature, 3 fertilized, 2 blasts and 1 frozen blast transferred on day 5 = BFN.
IVF #3 April was postponed to May, May was canceled. June/July was canceled. Had a cyst aspiration and then began IVF #3 in August. ER on 8/22; ET on 8/24 with AH. +HPT on 9/5. Beta #1 (11dpo) = 3; Beta #2 (15dpo) = 29; Beta #3 (17dpo) = 60; Beta #4 (19 dpo) = 118. Heartbeat at 6 weeks 6 days =132. Lil is here!
TTC#2: Trigger + TI = BFN; Clomid + Trigger + IUI = BFN.
IVF #4: BCP + MDLF + Lovenox = 7R, 1F = Transferred 1 6-cell embryo on day 3 = BFN
IVF #5: MDLF + Lovenox = 4R, 1F = Transferred 1 10-cell compacting embryo on day 3 = BFN
IVF #6: (New RE): Long Antagonist November 2014 (transferred two 8 cell grade 1 embryos and froze one blast) = BFN
FET#1: BFN
thanks everyone for your thoughts.
I did do the B3-I test, it was normal. But good thought.
I've met with SIRM, and do have a great RE and immunologist. We bought into the warranty instead of heading to CCRM, or the like. Le sigh.
i'm so sorry for your losses. ((HUGS))
ok, here's my 2 cents
do what you need to do to become a mom again. you will know when you are done and ready to move onto other options. since you are in guarantee program i would use the frosties (and hopefully get your BFsP) and then if you are done, you are done.
in terms of auto-immune issues, my RE and RPL dr. rec starting steriod 30 days prior to transfer (usually dexamethasone or prednisone) and first infusion 7-10 prior to transfer, another infusion after BFP and then 2-4 weeks until 24 weeks.
this is my RPL dr.'s website and he is amazing. he does phone consults if your are interested. he cycles with OOS ladies all the time and you can ask questions on his boards.
https://www.reproductiveimmunology.com/
some ladies do better with fresh cycles and some with frozen. i've gotten pregnant on my fresh cycles and not on frozen - but they both can work. i think if your body responds to less meds then go with it.
how much PIO are you on? my clinic is all about lots of progesterone. for fresh cycles 1cc PIO and E2V2 supps. with frozen cycles 2cc PIO and supps (i don't do supps b/c i cannot handle seeing any blood so I do PIO and IM delestrogen injections every 3 days). maybe up the amount
if you did another fresh cycle would you consider CGH?
have you and DH done any karyotyping?
Worrying does not empty tomorrow of its troubles, It empties today of its strength. ~Corrie ten Boom
Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the little voice at the end of the day that says I'll try again tomorrow. ~Mary Anne Radmacher (thank you beadinglady)
It's been a long journey. TTC since 9/06. multiple IUI's and IVF's and 4 m/c's. IVF#3 = BFP, twins, induced at 34w6d due to baby b passing away (no explanation). Delivered on 35w1d, Baby A - baby girl, and Baby B - baby boy, our little angel.
MTHFR A1298C & C677T, Immune Issues and Factor II
Oh Davez, this news makes me so so sad. You've been so helpful with advice for me in the past (I have 7 early losses). It is not fair that this keeps happening to you.
It sounds like you have done almost every test possible. I did not see it in your history, but would you consider PGD? Even though the embryos look great, there may be chromosome issues that aren't easily identifiable. While PGD isn't an exact science and it costs additional $$, it may be worth it. If there is an underlying issue, then all the tests, IVIG, etc you put into a cycle may never be able to help, KWIM?
I don't know what I would do. And, even telling you what I would do, I think would be tainted by my own personal experiences, so not very helpful to your situation, which is different.
What I can say is I am so sorry that you even have to be asking these questions. I know how much you want this and I have complete faith that you will mother others.
(((hugs)))
We've thought about PGD/CGH of course, but it's the expense that stops us. We kinda chose the warranty over that. That, and all these docs that assure me that the way my eggs mature, plus the fert rate (100%!!!! this time!!!) and the fact a huge chunk of embies make it to day 5-6...
well, they all say they're good embies. Or mostly. If it was bunk eggs here and there, the pattern would be different, they say. My pattern is same same. (except this last FET.)
I think having prednisone and IVIG in my system LONGER and much more prior to xfer will work. It's about all I've got left! lol.
We've done kyrotype, and tons of other testing. We suspected I was allergic to the titanium rods in my back, (scoliosis) but they ran the wrong tests and now I'm on steroids to mask the results. I did, however, have elevated mercury, lead and thimerosol levels, of all things. (not really high, just elevated) ::: rolls eyes:::: Don't know WHY to THAT one.
any more thoughts welcome. I do appreciate your time reading all this crap, lol.
What about hcg booster shots after the transfer in addition to being on the steroids longer and having the IVIG sooner?
I don't have any other insight for you! Like you they assumed towards the end that I had something immunological going on that they can't test for. My body always did better on its own than with drugs. I always had reactions to the medications even through the steroids and they thought that in itself was stopping me from staying pregnant. I am wondering how you would do with a natural FET doing the steroids and IVIG before transfer but nothing else and then adding the booster and progesterone after.
Daycare is SO exhausting!
Blog
that's pretty much my next move, to a T, if he let's me call it, and/or agrees.
what "reactions" do you have, if you don't mind me asking? I have a raging itching scalp, some skin patches that itch (same ones each time, like invisible eczema or something) and this round esp, BAD hot flashes and cold sweats. It was always one or the other. No normal temps.
Anything wonky with your thyroid, Peachy?
No, but they test it all of the time. I mean all of the time, they just tested it again last month but it always comes back within normal levels.
Full body rashes, hives around the injection sites, I was always one big hot flash. I also have endo, fibro(although I think it shingles related but who knows) and interstital cystitis which all point there being something autoimmune related but I always test negative.
I hope this is your secret recipe and that you get your sticky bfp!
Daycare is SO exhausting!
Blog
I am sorry if I missed it - I am sure you have done extensive RPL testing, are you on any blood thinners during your cycle? What about Humira?
I would def. at least use my frosties...the meds for those are not as much and you have already bought into the program.
I agree with STL and that I would do another fresh cycle if the FETs do not work and then consider using a GC for those, especially is there are women in your life willing to do that for you and that you trust.
I am SO sorry for all your losses. Sometimes I just think there is no rhyme or reason but I understand wanting to have as much knowledge as possible about preventing any further loss. Big ((hugs))
Me: PCOS, Blood/Immune Issues DH: Low all 3
Jun.- Sep. 2010 IUI#1-#3 = BFN
Oct. 2010 = IVF #1 = B/G Twins (passed away Feb. 2011)
May 2011 = Myomectomy and trans-abdominal cerclage (TAC)
Sep. 2011 = Surprise BFP = C/P
Feb. 2012 = sFET #1 = BFN
Feb.2012 = Hail Mary IUI #4 = BFN
April/May 2012 = FET #2 w/our last two embies = BFP (Please let this be it!)
Beta #1 8dp5/6dt = 234 Beta #2 10dp5/6dt = 695 Beta #3 12dp5/6dt = 1796 Beta #4 17dp5/6dt = 17,888 U/S #1 May 17, 2012 = Twins
Baby B's heart stop beating at 9 weeks 5 days
Our little miracle baby is a boy.
Baby Boy Owen and Baby Girl Avery were born too early on Feb. 13, 2011 due to a pedunculated fibroid, incompetent cervix and suspected placental abruption.
"What the heart has once owned and had, it shall never lose." - Henry Ward Beecher
SAIF/PAIF Welcome
Lots of love and luck to my PAIF/3T/IF Veteran ladies, especially my dear friend Zookie. Congrats to Papps, Teach84 and Starbuck on their little ones.
After 5.5 years of loss, heartbreak, and empty arms, our dreams were fulfilled through the beautiful, selfless gift of adoption. We are amazingly blessed!
Blog About Us | Blog About RPL/IF/Adoption
again, huge thanks for all your thoughts. more welcome.
(and to the poster to asked, I've had a TON of testing, some answers, some not, and I take sooooo many meds "empirically" - lovenox, steroids, anti-b's, etc. so much so, I'm starting to think I just need to knock it all off and just go "au naturel." I meet with my doc in the morning to see what we do next.)
Oh T. I'm so sorry this road is so tough for you. IF is a biotch.
If I were you, with the frosties and the warranty I would try the FETs. If those don't work try another fresh under that warranty and do a freeze all to cycle with a GC.
That's a pretty risky path emotionally though so it all depends on what both of you are willing to do. Of course adoption is also risky emotionally.
God these decisions are so hard.
Callan George and Bennett Charles born and died 11/7/10
FET #1 April 2011= BFN
FET #2 July 2011= no transfer because my lining sucked
FET #3 February 2012= BFP! 1st beta 9dp5dt=314 2nd beta 11dp5dt=977 1st U/S 3/20 Twins- Heart rates of 111 and 138
Living After Losing