Formal Intro and a Question

kimikins79 · April 2011

I've posted a few times on this board, but I've been on TTGP. I wanted to intro myself. I've been TTC with charting for about 7-8 months, cycle 6. I have irregular cycles (18 to 25 days till I O).

Based upon one long cycle and my annual, my OBGYN wanted to send me for some 7DPO bloodwork. It came back normal, but my p4 was 7.8, which is in the normal range, but low. She said that was reason enough for her to prescribe clomid. It wouldn't be monitored, so I asked to see an RE. DH's SA was normal, I am having an hsg on friday. I have a cyst that was discovered on an ultrasound a few days ago, so while the RE was going to put me on monitored clomid with an ovidrel injection, he said we had to wait and see what happened with the cyst.

I don't have a diagnosis, but the RE said that I certainly have some kind of ovulation "issue" and my right ovary has a polycystic appearance.

I guess my question is I have heard some say (on here and on Dr. Google) that a progesterone supplement may be preferable to clomid for someone like me who ovulates on my own, just "weakly." Does anyone know anything about that? I am seeing the RE for my hsg at the end of the week and I will of course ask him, but I was just curious for anyone with an experience of a progesterone supplement instead of clomid.

Thanks! Wishing everyone the best!

99luftballoons · April 2011

I don't have this issue, but I will say that I ovulate on my own and was prescribed Clomid on my 3rd IUI. I was told that it may help strengthen my ovulation and improve egg quality, so it makes sense to me that you would be prescribed clomid.

And I just wanted to say good for you for seeing an RE for monitoring! Good luck

kimikins79 · April 2011

LGLDVM:

If you ovulate on your own and your P4 is greater than 5 on an unmedicated cycle, you don't have ovulatory dysfunciton or weak ovulation. It seems like it is too early to make a diagnosis because you have no obvious reason to be getting testing done.

Maybe I'm missing something, but ovulation between CD19 and 25 isn't a huge deal.

This all stemmed from one 41 day cycle. I had an annual on the heels of that and asked about it. They told me to get the 7DPO B/W. I did and that is where the 7.8 p4 level comes from. That caused my OB to say that there was an issue and suggested unmonitored clomid. When I wouldnt do that, I went the RE, and he very clearly told me I had some ovulation issue. I am just going off of what he said. He is the specialist.

He then saw my right ovary on the ultrasound as polycystic in appearance. So while it may not appear to be a big deal (and other than my 41 days cycle I wouldn't have had B/W or anything). I have 2 docs that are telling me there is something going on...I don't know more than that right now.

KdgTeacher · April 2011

kimikins79:
LGLDVM:

If you ovulate on your own and your P4 is greater than 5 on an unmedicated cycle, you don't have ovulatory dysfunciton or weak ovulation. It seems like it is too early to make a diagnosis because you have no obvious reason to be getting testing done.

Maybe I'm missing something, but ovulation between CD19 and 25 isn't a huge deal.

This all stemmed from one 41 day cycle. I had an annual on the heels of that and asked about it. They told me to get the 7DPO B/W. I did and that is where the 7.8 p4 level comes from. That caused my OB to say that there was an issue and suggested unmonitored clomid. When I wouldnt do that, I went the RE, and he very clearly told me I had some ovulation issue. I am just going off of what he said. He is the specialist.

He then saw my right ovary on the ultrasound as polycystic in appearance. So while it may not appear to be a big deal (and other than my 41 days cycle I wouldn't have had B/W or anything). I have 2 docs that are telling me there is something going on...I don't know more than that right now.

One-semi long cycle in 6 months and you've jumped into testing?

Kathy4678 · April 2011

KdgTeacher:
kimikins79:
LGLDVM:

If you ovulate on your own and your P4 is greater than 5 on an unmedicated cycle, you don't have ovulatory dysfunciton or weak ovulation. It seems like it is too early to make a diagnosis because you have no obvious reason to be getting testing done.

Maybe I'm missing something, but ovulation between CD19 and 25 isn't a huge deal.

This all stemmed from one 41 day cycle. I had an annual on the heels of that and asked about it. They told me to get the 7DPO B/W. I did and that is where the 7.8 p4 level comes from. That caused my OB to say that there was an issue and suggested unmonitored clomid. When I wouldnt do that, I went the RE, and he very clearly told me I had some ovulation issue. I am just going off of what he said. He is the specialist.

He then saw my right ovary on the ultrasound as polycystic in appearance. So while it may not appear to be a big deal (and other than my 41 days cycle I wouldn't have had B/W or anything). I have 2 docs that are telling me there is something going on...I don't know more than that right now.

One-semi long cycle in 6 months and you've jumped into testing?

Kdg- that is quite the looooosing battle. I've gone round and round on that train.

Kathy4678 · April 2011

LGLDVM:
Kathy4678:

Kdg- that is quite the looooosing battle. I've gone round and round on that train.

Sounds like I need to lurk on TTGP more. I guess I should just stop too.

ha- Don't do it to yourself!! Stick out tongue

kimikins79 · April 2011

You know what I want to know - why do I have to defend the information I receive from my physicians?

I know you ladies know soooo much. I would never have known about clomid monitoring without these boards. Your knowledge is why I post - to supplement information or ask questions I didn't think about or know to ask when I saw the doctor. BUT, I trust my doctors. They aren't appeasing me - I never go in there begging them to tell me "bad" news. Who would do that and why would I do that?

If I came to this board in 3 weeks with a PCOS diagnosis, or some other diagnosis, no one would question me. Because I don't have a diagnosis yet somehow accoridng to some of you I shouldn't get tested for one when my doctors (2 of them) are telling me that there is an issue.

I thought my charts were awesome too. My RE has them all. He has looked at them and told me that I O erratically and that there is an issue. He got them before he even met me and came into the meeting saying that....I guess he just wants to make money, right?

Ok, now I'm getting snarky. I'm just annoyed at having to defend myself. This is the last time I'll do it.

Kathy4678 · April 2011

I've been side-eyeing you ever since you PM-ed me your first week here to call me a meany-head. And I've let you know that several times.

If you had a Dx or an "issue" you'd be welcomed, of course- and even if you didn't, you'd be welcomed. I just don't think you have an "issue". Like PP's have said- 6 months deep, clear ovulation, and one long cycle does not add up to a visit to the RE. I think you're fishing for an issue. You've been doing it for months on TTGP.

So don't act surprised when people are going to question your "issue". Least of all me. I'm not asking you to defend yourself- that's your decision- but I'm also not going to act like I think what you're doing is kosher.

KdgTeacher · April 2011

I don't think a DX has anything to do with this. I myself have no DX and have undergone testing with normal results. I guess, personally, one semi-long cycle in 6+ months of charting would not have rasied a red flag to ask about and then go through with all this testing. It seems, to me, like digging for something, anything, to be off to move forward with more aggressive steps.

As far as the money making comment, isn't that everyone's goal? If someone want to voluntarily fork up thousands of dollars, are there many out there who would turn it down?

kimikins79 · April 2011

Kathy4678:

I've been side-eyeing you ever since you PM-ed me your first week here to call me a meany-head. And I've let you know that several times.

If you had a Dx or an "issue" you'd be welcomed, of course- and even if you didn't, you'd be welcomed. I just don't think you have an "issue". Like PP's have said- 6 months deep, clear ovulation, and one long cycle does not add up to a visit to the RE. I think you're fishing for an issue. You've been doing it for months on TTGP.

So don't act surprised when people are going to question your "issue". Least of all me. I'm not asking you to defend yourself- that's your decision- but I'm also not going to act like I think what you're doing is kosher.

And I'm not going to act like I think what you have to say is more relevant than opinions I have received from multiple medical professionals.

Also, let me get this straight - you're side-eyeing me for something I did as a newbie who did not understand the dynamic of the boards several months ago? Wow. How...um...totally and completely silly. Also, IMO really immature.

Man, women can be so catty.

Kathy4678 · April 2011

kimikins79:
Kathy4678:

I've been side-eyeing you ever since you PM-ed me your first week here to call me a meany-head. And I've let you know that several times.

If you had a Dx or an "issue" you'd be welcomed, of course- and even if you didn't, you'd be welcomed. I just don't think you have an "issue". Like PP's have said- 6 months deep, clear ovulation, and one long cycle does not add up to a visit to the RE. I think you're fishing for an issue. You've been doing it for months on TTGP.

So don't act surprised when people are going to question your "issue". Least of all me. I'm not asking you to defend yourself- that's your decision- but I'm also not going to act like I think what you're doing is kosher.

And I'm not going to act like I think what you have to say is more relevant than opinions I have received from multiple medical professionals.

Also, let me get this straight - you're side-eyeing me for something I did as a newbie who did not understand the dynamic of the boards several months ago? Wow. How...um...totally and completely silly. Also, IMO really immature.

Man, women can be so catty.

That is when I STARTED the side eye. It's just continued since then.

ETA: I'm sure you'll listen to your doctor and that's great. Whatevs. I'm only explaining why you're getting the responses you're getting.

And if you are so convinced that your doctors are giving you the best advice, you wouldn't be here asking for a billion opinions about them.

ecleptic · April 2011

The general idea is that many many many OBs prescribe Clomid like candy. You were right to not accept it without monitoring but the question now is whether it was necessary in the first place or a simple case of an OB prescribing something that they will give for any halfway plausible reason- and then jumping from there to a RE who is in the business of treating. If you walk into a furniture store- the associates assume you're there to buy furniture.

Same deal with a RE. If you walk in, they're going to assume you want treatment and treat you. If you go into a chiropractor and say your doctor gave you vicodin for your headaches but you don't feel right about taking vicodin from a general practitioner for a headache- he's not going to tell you to go home and take a tylenol and see if the headaches go away in a couple of weeks. He's going to assume the headaches are bothering you and start trying to adjust you to see if he can fix the headaches.

I don't get people who go to REs and don't expect them to start testing and prescribing stuff. They aren't going to look at your charts and say "Sorry there's no reason you can't get pregnant- go home and try having sex." It's not even a profit thing. If you're their office, they're going to give you the best service they can and the best service isn't turning you out at the door and telling you to give it a couple more months. The best service is starting testing and if nothing comes up that they can specifically point to- prescribing clomid because this "headache" is obviously bothering you enough to seek treatment.

kimikins79 · April 2011

ecleptic:

The general idea is that many many many OBs prescribe Clomid like candy. You were right to not accept it without monitoring but the question now is whether it was necessary in the first place or a simple case of an OB prescribing something that they will give for any halfway plausible reason- and then jumping from there to a RE who is in the business of treating. If you walk into a furniture store- the associates assume you're there to buy furniture.

Same deal with a RE. If you walk in, they're going to assume you want treatment and treat you. If you go into a chiropractor and say your doctor gave you vicodin for your headaches but you don't feel right about taking vicodin from a general practitioner for a headache- he's not going to tell you to go home and take a tylenol and see if the headaches go away in a couple of weeks. He's going to assume the headaches are bothering you and start trying to adjust you to see if he can fix the headaches.

I don't get people who go to REs and don't expect them to start testing and prescribing stuff. They aren't going to look at your charts and say "Sorry there's no reason you can't get pregnant- go home and try having sex." It's not even a profit thing. If you're their office, they're going to give you the best service they can and the best service isn't turning you out at the door and telling you to give it a couple more months. The best service is starting testing and if nothing comes up that they can specifically point to- prescribing clomid because this "headache" is obviously bothering you enough to seek treatment.

I guess I could see your point. Now here's what I feel everyone needs to know - I didn't ask for B/W. The OB said, ehh, go get it, you had a 41 day cycle. When the results came back and there was a concern over the p4 level, she said over the phone I should take clomid. I asked for an appointment. When I went in and asked many questions about monitoring, etc. She told me to go see an RE if I didn't want the clomid. A nurse practitioner also said something to me like "we deliver the babies, we don't help you make them."

So, I went to the RE they referred me to. It was suggested I just get a new OB (I think Kathy said that). I already had an RE appointment, so I didn't go searching for a new OB, just kept the RE appointment. I see your point that since I went to him, he is assuming I want the help asap.

However, I don't want magic candy clomid. In fact, the RE said if I had taken it from the OB I might have had a problem because I have a pretty decent cyst on my left ovary. We are waiting for that to shrink possibly before he does anything other than the hsg. I really think I did the right thing here, especially after finding the cyst.

There are so many other factors to look at with me, and I feel like my pretty decent charts should be viewed in light of these issues that my doctors are aware of - I can't lose weight, I am overweight, I have never had a regular cycle. I even have a history of going close to 1 year without AF on a few occasions (more than 3 years ago). I have abnormal hair growth. I tend to be moody, etc. The RE said this combination was concerning. Yet, I come here and people think I am fishing, pushing to have an issue.

I am sorry, but I feel a little taken aback by the responses when I think I am following the direction of my doctors. I thought this board would have a good community of women who would understand what I was going through, that I could share thoughts, concerns, or additional questions.

I appreciate the honesty. I don't want anything sugar coated, but I feel like questioning my responsible course of action (refusing clomid, getting a second opinion, etc) does not deserve criticism.

alhal · April 2011

kimikins79:

You know what I want to know - why do I have to defend the information I receive from my physicians?

I know you ladies know soooo much. I would never have known about clomid monitoring without these boards. Your knowledge is why I post - to supplement information or ask questions I didn't think about or know to ask when I saw the doctor. BUT, I trust my doctors. They aren't appeasing me - I never go in there begging them to tell me "bad" news. Who would do that and why would I do that?

If I came to this board in 3 weeks with a PCOS diagnosis, or some other diagnosis, no one would question me. Because I don't have a diagnosis yet somehow accoridng to some of you I shouldn't get tested for one when my doctors (2 of them) are telling me that there is an issue.

I thought my charts were awesome too. My RE has them all. He has looked at them and told me that I O erratically and that there is an issue. He got them before he even met me and came into the meeting saying that....I guess he just wants to make money, right?

Ok, now I'm getting snarky. I'm just annoyed at having to defend myself. This is the last time I'll do it.

You are implying here that the girls on this board don't take you seriously unless you have a diagnosis. That's just not true. There are plenty of girls here that are "unexplained" and have no diagnosis (including me). The difference is that they've been TTC for over a year. I'm sure you've been told a million times on TTGP- it can take a healthy couple a year to concieve. As the PPs have said, 6 months with 1 "long" cycle does not infertility make. IMO, you are just being impatient and fishing for problems. But I'm not going to harp on this further, the PPs have covered my opinion thoroughly.

kimikins79 · April 2011

alhal:
kimikins79:

You know what I want to know - why do I have to defend the information I receive from my physicians?

I know you ladies know soooo much. I would never have known about clomid monitoring without these boards. Your knowledge is why I post - to supplement information or ask questions I didn't think about or know to ask when I saw the doctor. BUT, I trust my doctors. They aren't appeasing me - I never go in there begging them to tell me "bad" news. Who would do that and why would I do that?

If I came to this board in 3 weeks with a PCOS diagnosis, or some other diagnosis, no one would question me. Because I don't have a diagnosis yet somehow accoridng to some of you I shouldn't get tested for one when my doctors (2 of them) are telling me that there is an issue.

I thought my charts were awesome too. My RE has them all. He has looked at them and told me that I O erratically and that there is an issue. He got them before he even met me and came into the meeting saying that....I guess he just wants to make money, right?

Ok, now I'm getting snarky. I'm just annoyed at having to defend myself. This is the last time I'll do it.

You are implying here that the girls on this board don't take you seriously unless you have a diagnosis. That's just not true. There are plenty of girls here that are "unexplained" and have no diagnosis (including me). The difference is that they've been TTC for over a year. I'm sure you've been told a million times on TTGP- it can take a healthy couple a year to concieve. As the PPs have said, 6 months with 1 "long" cycle does not infertility make. IMO, you are just being impatient and fishing for problems. But I'm not going to harp on this further, the PPs have covered my opinion thoroughly.

You're right - there are plenty of women with unexplained infertility. I was wrong when I wrote the statement you bolded. What I meant (and did not articulate well) was that if I had a PCOS or some other diagnosis at the 8 month mark (which is where I technically am, not just cycle 7), that person would not be received the way that my post has been.

You can say whatever you like about the fact that I'm fishing, or I want a problem. I know my body. I've had issues with my cycles for years, I just was too caught up in other things in life to care since I wasn't TTC. Not paying attention to those issues is something I regret now.

I'll repost on this Board in 4 months if I'm not pregnant (and like everyone else, I hope I get pg before then.) Hopefully you all will accept me then and not treat me this way. I think it's pretty crappy.

maybebride · April 2011

kimikins79:

There are so many other factors to look at with me, and I feel like my pretty decent charts should be viewed in light of these issues that my doctors are aware of - I can't lose weight, I am overweight, I have never had a regular cycle. I even have a history of going close to 1 year without AF on a few occasions (more than 3 years ago). I have abnormal hair growth. I tend to be moody, etc. The RE said this combination was concerning. Yet, I come here and people think I am fishing, pushing to have an issue.

First if you have these symptoms, you could have mentioned them in addition to what you said in your first post.

However, I'm not entirely sure any of these still add up to "other issues" other than normal hormonal things happening. The year without AF--was that while on BC or were you treated for it? I've noticed abnormal hair growth over the past six months or so. My doctor didn't even bring it up. Moody? Really? You are listing that as an issue? Hell, I'm moody 90% of the time--ask my husband. And losing weight. How hard have you tried? I promise I'm not being snarky at all. I just know that when I went of BC and started trying, I started thinking there was something wrong because I wasn't losing weight. But, then I really started trying to lose and have.

Look, nobody is trying to tear you down, but sometimes a doctor's advice is not always the best. Could you take Clomid and get pregnant soon? Yes, and you probably will. But do you need to take it to still get pregnant within a reasonable amount of time? No, probably not. I am on a year and half of trying, all of my tests are normal, so I could very easily start IUI if I wanted and as my doctor suggests. But at this point, I'm not even ready to just consider Clomid for a few more cycles. And I can promise you I want a baby just as much as you or anybody else on this board--and I'm not getting any younger.

kimikins79 · April 2011

AndieD6709:

The only thing I have to say is, "Impatience is not a fertility issue."

8 months, and one "long" cycle (In your eyes, most of my cycles are 45, 50, and usually 60+ days...THAT is a long cycle.) don't mean you should jump into thinking you have a problem. Especially based on your past charts. I think you need to give it more time. You should really listen to what the other ladies have said. They've all hit the nail on the head as well.

I agree with your statement that being impatient does not mean you have a fertility issue. There's so much more I have to say in response to your comments, but I think I would just belabor my points.

I understand all PP's points - they are well taken. I just disagree because I choose to listen to my doctors. I am not a medical professional, and as wonderful and knowledge as you ladies are, neither are you (ok, well maybe some of you are I am sure Wink )

I know that no matter what I say, you will all think I am hoping to have some kind of issue/difficulty/problem. I am not. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to try for years. I'm not trying to invite that difficulty upon myself, regardless of how you perceive me.

It would have been nice to have this Board to discuss what my RE tells me, etc. I won't post here anymore, I'll go back to TTGP. I wasn't here to offend anyone. Good luck.

hunterjumper102 · April 2011

I am sorry you didn't receive the welcome you were hoping for but its hard when most of us have been trying for over a year with no success and then have someone come in who had one abnormal cycle and immediatly something is wrong. I don't think anyone is saying don't listen to your doctor but don't expect to come on this board and these ladies not to give you their honest and well informed opinion. Most of them have the same wealth of knowledge on this subject as doctors do sometimes. I wouldn't take the comments as snarky but as knowledge you don't have on the subject because you have only been trying for 8 months. I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Jezebell26 · April 2011

AndieD6709:

The only thing I have to say is, "Impatience is not a fertility issue."

Exactly..and another thing, why would you want to take a fertility drug if you really didn't need to?? As pp said, it takes a healthy couple up to 1 year to conceive. You haven't tried for a year so how would you know if you needed it or not?

kimikins79 · April 2011

Jezebell26:
AndieD6709:

The only thing I have to say is, "Impatience is not a fertility issue."

Exactly..and another thing, why would you want to take a fertility drug if you really didn't need to?? As pp said, it takes a healthy couple up to 1 year to conceive. You haven't tried for a year so how would you know if you needed it or not?

I don't want a fertility drug unless I need it. I'm not on anything. Nothing. Nada. I know that clomid is serious. That's why I went to the RE (because the OB told me I needed it to help my ovulation). I did the right thing by refusing the clomid, asking for a referral, etc. Yet, everyone here seems to think I am running to take a magic pill. Everything I've said should tell you that is NOT what I am doing. I am exploring something that 2 medical professionals have concerns about.

So while all the pp's are right - impatience is not an infertility issue - I came to this Board looking for support as I go through this evaluation/diagnnostic process. I had some questions about meds, things I forgot to speak to the RE about. I am basically told it's too early, go away. I've lurked, there are other women on this board who have been "accepted" and have been trying for the same amount of time as I have. That's why I decided to post here....so if I had some questions in the future, I wouldn't be "rude" and just some random poster.

Again, I think it's pretty crappy. At this point, I have little desire to stick around and participate here. However, I have always been someone who voices my opinion, and stands up for for what I believe is right and wrong. I think the responses to my intro post are wrong. I know I'm fighting a losing battle with some of you, but I needed to get that out.

Truly - best of luck to all.

Jewlz018 · April 2011

kimikins79:
Jezebell26:
AndieD6709:

The only thing I have to say is, "Impatience is not a fertility issue."
Exactly..and another thing, why would you want to take a fertility drug if you really didn't need to?? As pp said, it takes a healthy couple up to 1 year to conceive. You haven't tried for a year so how would you know if you needed it or not?
I don't want a fertility drug unless I need it. I'm not on anything. Nothing. Nada. I know that clomid is serious. That's why I went to the RE (because the OB told me I needed it to help my ovulation). I did the right thing by refusing the clomid, asking for a referral, etc. Yet, everyone here seems to think I am running to take a magic pill. Everything I've said should tell you that is NOT what I am doing. I am exploring something that 2 medical professionals have concerns about.
So while all the pp's are right - impatience is not an infertility issue - I came to this Board looking for support as I go through this evaluation/diagnnostic process. I had some questions about meds, things I forgot to speak to the RE about. I am basically told it's too early, go away. I've lurked, there are other women on this board who have been "accepted" and have been trying for the same amount of time as I have. That's why I decided to post here....so if I had some questions in the future, I wouldn't be "rude" and just some random poster.
Again, I think it's pretty crappy. At this point, I have little desire to stick around and participate here. However, I have always been someone who voices my opinion, and stands up for for what I believe is right and wrong. I think the responses to my intro post are wrong. I know I'm fighting a losing battle with some of you, but I needed to get that out.
Truly - best of luck to all.

Nobody is tying your hands and forcing you to stick around...

I think you got some good replies originally but got defensive very quickly.

There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion, but you should also be willing to hear out others especially when they are clearly more experienced in this area then you. I think you are only trying to be "right".

OP - IF is a very difficult journey. I truly hope that everything turns out to be okay for you, but if not that you can be your own health advocate. Not all REs or OBs are equal. Good Luck to you!!

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