Interesting (Possibly Flameworthy) Thought (Ticker Warning)...

patchen30 · March 2011

We have TTTC and IF and IF+6 Mo, etc...but we only have one PAIF board for everyone.

I truly think that what you had to to through before getting to the other side heavily influences your experience on the other side. i.e. if I hadn't had to go through 1 year of trying on our own, 2 Clomid rounds, 4 IUIs, 3 IVFs, a m/c and an FET to get where I am now, I'm really don't think I wouldn't be as paranoid and completely wigged out as I am right now. If I just did 2 rounds of Clomid, or one IUI or something, I may be more chill b/c the stakes would not be as high.

Sometimes that old infertile infertile feeling carries over to the PAIF board (I am not complaining - glad to be there at all - just stating a fact). And I am posting this here b/c we've had the infertile infertile discussions here before.

kthappy76 · March 2011

I agree that what you have to go through to get to PAIF affects your experience in pg and in life in general. If/when we get pg again, it will certainly be w/greater trepidation than the first time. That being said I doubt there is a place for another PAIF/SAIF-like board (though I'm not even sure if that is what you are suggesting). I think if TB could do it over again (w/o provoking riots) there would be fewer IF boards and not more if you KWIM.

patchen30 · March 2011

kthappy76:
I agree that what you have to go through to get to PAIF affects your experience in pg and in life in general. If/when we get pg again, it will certainly be w/greater trepidation than the first time. That being said I doubt there is a place for another PAIF/SAIF-like board (though I'm not even sure if that is what you are suggesting). I think if TB could do it over again (w/o provoking riots) there would be fewer IF boards and not more if you KWIM.

Yeah, I'm not necessarily suggesting we start different types of PAIF/SAIF boards...I'm just saying sometimes I'll notice I'll get chastised by someone on PAIF who has decided I need to "relax" about my fears and then I'll look in their siggy and they've done a few rounds of Clomid to get KU. That person and I are not coming from this at the same angle I would be willing to bet.

whispergrrl · March 2011

I do agree that the more treatments you've gone through, especially if losses were involved, change your outlook on everything pregnancy related.

None of my closest friends IRL had difficulty conceiving. That's the point of reference I was coming from when I started TTC. I knew I had issues with my menstrual cycle, but honestly thought if needed, I could take a round of clomid and get KU (probably with twins)....yeah, that's how uneducated about this I was in the beginning.

It took us 18 months to get our success. Not very long in the grand scheme of things (especially when looking at many ladies around here who've had MUCH more difficulty). I've been blessed/lucky/whatever you want to call it that I've never had to experience a loss. Yet, when I got pregnant, that's all I thought about. All the ladies around the boards who HAVE had losses. Comparing myself to them. How far along were they when it happened. Can I make it past that? What's this twinge? Why am I bleeding? Why doesn't my doctor seem concerned when I'm freaking the f*ck out?

IF changes us. Whether it is a year of dealing with it, or 10 years. Loss or no loss. We all have our perspectives changed forever. I used to be the girl who wanted to plan her kids a certain number of years apart. Now, I will be thrilled to deliver this child, and hopeful that we can have at least one at some point! All that planning goes out the window.

Don't feel bad for your feelings...you are entitled to them. I think as you get further along in your pregnancy, as you reach new milestones, you will be able to stop stressing quite so much. First tri is tough, because we all know that things go wrong more often during that time. Sometimes it sucks that we all know so much about all of this, because it just adds fuel to the fire!

Sorry for rambling...Just thought I'd share my viewpoint. I think over on PAIF that those of us who are a bit further along tend to forget our own freakouts early on...so take those reminders to "chill out" with a grain of salt. Yeah, most likely you have nothing to worry about. But you know your own history and journey, and are entitled to your feelings about this. Good luck, hon!

Edwina.McDunnough · March 2011

As Colinda mentioned, there is too much overlap between the TTCAL6+ board and the vet board, with all the losses and advanced ART, it's not something that just goes away with a few good ultrasounds and betas.

I don't have an answer to that though. I really think it is disposition and personality that makes the difference, and not the experience per se, though the two are intertwined. I think some people can understand struggle and loss in any form, and others only their own. Some people compartmentalize the experience and go on as if nothing had ever happened. But it makes sense that when you live with something for a long time, it's bound to change you.

Personally, my miscarriage will have more influence on my feelings toward whatever pregnancy I have rather than the ART, maybe because I experienced it first and all the ART is like a drawn out fallout of that, in some kind of weird way.

Temp590840000005378 · March 2011

I agree, on the other hand, if I were to miraculously get pregnant on my next IUI, which would be my 3rd IUI, that would be way easier than what you have been through. But, I have been married for almost 9 years and trying for 3 - 4 years and the only reason I haven't done IVF is that I can't afford it. So, even though I haven't had as many treatment's I've still dealt with a lot of the emotional aspects of it all. I get what you mean for sure and sometimes I feel like I'm an infertile inftertile, even though I haven't done many treatments.

p.s. Patchen, I laugh at your messed up Siggy since mine is messed up too, lets never fix them

madelyn07 · March 2011

I get what you are saying, patchen, the longer a person is on this road..the more failed cycles..the more money spent..the m/c..it all really does make everything that much harder.

IMO, that's kind of the point of this board for us...

krissyh21 · March 2011

The way I see it is that once pregnant, you go to where you feel comfortable posting. I kind of see someone getting pregnant on their first round of clomid more comfortable posting on the tri boards then on PAIF, because no real bond was made on the boards just yet. Granted, when I got pregnant there was no PAIF board or really anything else except SAIF so I spent the majority of time over on the tri boards because pregnancy questions on SAIF were few and far between. If I had more a IF factor question, I posted of SAIF and got support there, then I as high risk, so posted on that board.

There is a large community filled with IF people, unfortunately it gets bigger each year. There is not going to always be one spot that is right for everyone. Even after success, you will have people who get miracles with #2, people in treatment for number 2, and then those of us that are one and done and not happy about it.

I don't think you have to travel down the exact same road to be empathetic to someones situation and offer a hug when they are down.

Maybe I am looking at this differently because because when I starting having IF issues all there was here was BOTB, and then TTTC about a year into me posting on BOTB, so those of us who posted on TTTC saw everyone being on the same boat (grateful to get off BOTB).

I remember the first tri and how hard it was and I also bled each week. I am grateful to the people who supported me, event though they did not experience the same feelings as me. I think it is more so personalities then boards KWIM? There is always going to be someone who just don't get it, no matter what board you are on.

patchen30 · March 2011

bear:

But, I have been married for almost 9 years and trying for 3 - 4 years and the only reason I haven't done IVF is that I can't afford it. So, even though I haven't had as many treatment's I've still dealt with a lot of the emotional aspects of it all.

Yeah actually I was thinking of that too - just b/c someone does fewer treatments doesn't necessarily mean the stakes aren't high.

I guess it's really a case-by-case basis...but I think in general you may have a different outlook if you've been through the ringer more/longer.

Also agree w/ Edwina that it's a lot about disposition.

Nature Lover · March 2011

I'm glad you brought this up b/c its nothing I ever thought of - at all! I think I can't even wrap my brain around what is going on in my IF life and certainly can't envision a day when I will be on PAIF :-( But it's good to hear what you're saying and think about that so I am prepared if I ever do make it to PAIF. My complete lack of tolerance for "Yay, I have my BFP after 1 round of Clomid" (which admittedly is MY issues not theirs) would certainly carry over to PAIF and feeling like those who got KU pretty quickly jsut didn't understand where I was. Like someone else said though, that is what this board is for. I can't really understand what you are going through with your pregnancy since I've never been pregnant, but I can certainly understand the IF journey and can imagine how that must affect how you approach your pregnancy. I haven't walked your path since we haven't even done any treatmenst yet due to finances, but I do know how this permeates every aspect of your life, how every month seems like afailure, how you feel betrayed by your body, how you feel that it will nevr be your turn, how you feel that you have failed your DH, etc.

Sorry some people are giving you a hard time. I hope you get to the point where you can "just chill" because you are less worried and more secure with the pregnancy but until then you feel free to worry all you want. It is perfectly normal after this journey.

kthappy76 · March 2011

Edwina.McDunnough:

I really think it is disposition and personality that makes the difference, and not the experience per se, though the two are intertwined. I think some people can understand struggle and loss in any form, and others only their own. Some people compartmentalize the experience and go on as if nothing had ever happened. But it makes sense that when you live with something for a long time, it's bound to change you.

The always eloquent and thoughtful Edwina, I couldn't agree with you more. I also think it comes down to how you "use" the board. Some people post every worry, while others are just looking for a little community, but we all have to find a way to live in peace and harmony...

patchen30 · March 2011

Nature Lover:

Sorry some people are giving you a hard time. I hope you get to the point where you can "just chill" because you are less worried and more secure with the pregnancy but until then you feel free to worry all you want. It is perfectly normal after this journey.

Don't get me wrong - the VAST majority of the girls on PAIF are amazingly wonderful and supportive, and my huge anxiety is my issue, not anyone else's.

steveandkim2 · March 2011

Although I haven't had a loss, I'm still petrified with this pregnancy. I've seen so many losses and have way too many friends with losses that its always in my mind. In my mind I transferred 8 of the highest scoring embryos and only one made it, so I'm constantly worried about its quality. Each week gets a little easier, but I probably won't relax until November!

I know I was nervous posting in general on PAIF (mainly because I was afraid I'll jinx myself if I get close to the ladies over there and then have to leave). I think everyone had been really helpful with my "newbie" questions and freakouts. Could it be just a "newness" factor and you still don't know all the ladies yet? Its easy to misread tone on the internet, and maybe someone is saying "just chill" to help you out and encourage you to relax and not to be mean or sarcastic?

SPerry0376 · March 2011

Patchen- We have the exact same IF cycle history (not in the same order though). I went through 1 year TTC, 2 clomid cycles, 4 IUI's, 2 IVF's, one late term loss, and one FET.

I do understand what you mean. I would do ANYTHING to be pregnant after one or two clomid cycles or my first IUI.

SPerry0376 · March 2011

SPerry0376:
Patchen- We have the exact same IF cycle history (not in the same order though). I went through 1 year TTC, 2 clomid cycles, 4 IUI's, 2 IVF's, one late term loss, and one FET.
I do understand what you mean. I would do ANYTHING to be pregnant after one or two clomid cycles or my first IUI.

I just realized I went through three IVF cycles. Isn't that super pathetic that I couldn't remember? I try so hard not to dwell on all that we've been though, so I guess I did a good job forgetting!

Tanya+Da · March 2011

Yes to this post and discussion. I don't have much to add because pp have put it so perfectly and eloquently. Even as hard a subject it is, some of the writing in this discussion (and others) is almost poetic with its feeling and intensity. If I could put all these types of discussions into a book, I think we would make millions. And reach so many people that need support, and so many people that need education.

NicoleeBonsai · March 2011

patchen30:
kthappy76:
I agree that what you have to go through to get to PAIF affects your experience in pg and in life in general. If/when we get pg again, it will certainly be w/greater trepidation than the first time. That being said I doubt there is a place for another PAIF/SAIF-like board (though I'm not even sure if that is what you are suggesting). I think if TB could do it over again (w/o provoking riots) there would be fewer IF boards and not more if you KWIM.

Yeah, I'm not necessarily suggesting we start different types of PAIF/SAIF boards...I'm just saying sometimes I'll notice I'll get chastised by someone on PAIF who has decided I need to "relax" about my fears and then I'll look in their siggy and they've done a few rounds of Clomid to get KU. That person and I are not coming from this at the same angle I would be willing to bet.

i haven't been through years and years of IF like you have, but it did take us 2 IVF cycles to get to where we are. i am definitely on high-alert due to everything we experienced to get here. i was *freaking* out over the weekend when i realized that i had inadvertently eaten soft-serve 3 times on vacation (i ordered shakes without realizing they came from soft-serve machines).

however, i would say that i understand where some of these other people's comments come from. i guess sometimes things go a little outside of reasonable concern (i.e. concern about eyebrow waxing in pregnancy).

i understand you are anxious and have been through a lot (i can't imagine experiencing a loss, that must amplify everything for you), but i think sometimes it's a little silly. if you took a few minutes to think about it, you would maybe realize that not every single thing is an something to worry about or call your nurse about.

mdluv21 · March 2011

I was terrified when I was pregnant and was on PAIF. I bled all the time, had ER visits and was diagnosed GD but I found the ladies over there to be so comforting and supportive even if they weren't freaking out all the time like me and I didn't feel like my stakes were low since it was my first IVF that very well might be the only IVF we will ever be able to be afford.

If I ever get PG again I plan on posting on PAIF, High-Risk and maybe even PG after a loss because those are all things I would be. I think I agree with the poster who said you just have to go where you have the most comfort and support for your situation.

patchen30 · March 2011

steveandkim2:

I think everyone had been really helpful with my "newbie" questions and freakouts. Could it be just a "newness" factor and you still don't know all the ladies yet? Its easy to misread tone on the internet, and maybe someone is saying "just chill" to help you out and encourage you to relax and not to be mean or sarcastic?

I feel bad if I gave the impression that people weren't supportive - that's totally not what I meant. There have only been like 1 or 2 comments out of the TONS of posts when I've freaked out. People have been awesome and patient. I just brought this up to highlight that your reaction when you do get pg may be really different depending on what you've been through, and although we're all seperated beforehand w/ multiple boards, we all get lumped together on PAIF.

patchen30 · March 2011

NicoleeBonsai:
patchen30:

kthappy76:
I agree that what you have to go through to get to PAIF affects your experience in pg and in life in general. If/when we get pg again, it will certainly be w/greater trepidation than the first time. That being said I doubt there is a place for another PAIF/SAIF-like board (though I'm not even sure if that is what you are suggesting). I think if TB could do it over again (w/o provoking riots) there would be fewer IF boards and not more if you KWIM.

Yeah, I'm not necessarily suggesting we start different types of PAIF/SAIF boards...I'm just saying sometimes I'll notice I'll get chastised by someone on PAIF who has decided I need to "relax" about my fears and then I'll look in their siggy and they've done a few rounds of Clomid to get KU. That person and I are not coming from this at the same angle I would be willing to bet.

i haven't been through years and years of IF like you have, but it did take us 2 IVF cycles to get to where we are. i am definitely on high-alert due to everything we experienced to get here. i was *freaking* out over the weekend when i realized that i had inadvertently eaten soft-serve 3 times on vacation (i ordered shakes without realizing they came from soft-serve machines).

however, i would say that i understand where some of these other people's comments come from. i guess sometimes things go a little outside of reasonable concern (i.e. concern about eyebrow waxing in pregnancy).

i understand you are anxious and have been through a lot (i can't imagine experiencing a loss, that must amplify everything for you), but i think sometimes it's a little silly. if you took a few minutes to think about it, you would maybe realize that not every single thing is an something to worry about or call your nurse about.

Yes - I'm sure I'm being silly about a lot of this stuff. But I've never had a successful pregnancy before and I'm just paranoid. I'm the first to admit I am not thinking rationally about this stuff - fear has complete control over me.

My nurse gave me a lecture about no getting manicures during 1st tri so I thought eyebrow waxing may be along the same lines...

Nature Lover · March 2011

patchen30:
steveandkim2:

I think everyone had been really helpful with my "newbie" questions and freakouts. Could it be just a "newness" factor and you still don't know all the ladies yet? Its easy to misread tone on the internet, and maybe someone is saying "just chill" to help you out and encourage you to relax and not to be mean or sarcastic?

I feel bad if I gave the impression that people weren't supportive - that's totally not what I meant. There have only been like 1 or 2 comments out of the TONS of posts when I've freaked out. People have been awesome and patient. I just brought this up to highlight that your reaction when you do get pg may be really different depending on what you've been through, and although we're all seperated beforehand w/ multiple boards, we all get lumped together on PAIF.

I got that. Don't feel bad :-) And I'm glad you brought it up.

smilee · March 2011

I get where you are coming from, I really do. Having it take so many years and having had miscarriages and having to be on drugs to get through HG while pregnant made me incredibly paranoid, but I think splitting the board is not really the answer. I think that experience shapes you, but I also think that temperament is a huge factor as well. I am a HUGE worrier and I think having a board full of people like me would've made it worse!

Hang in there.

chizzle09 · March 2011

I already know I am going to be a nervous wreck during the first couple months if/when I get pregnant. I've had such crappy luck so far (2 chemicals, 1 blighted ovum, 1 ectopic) that I will over-analyze everything. One of the main reasons why I rarely post on IF anymore is because of the influx of newbies (with a whopping 50 posts to their name) get pregnant on their 1st or 2nd IUI (and then they disappear). It is beyond frustrating!!

dolphinsmakemesmile · March 2011

Not flameworthy at all. I would say it's my miscarriage, not my IF (although it doesn't help) that has me paralyzed with fear when I get pregnant again. I totally agree with you. It's not the normal first tri paranoia like oh I didn't feel sick today, do you think that's ok? But, rather coming from a real place of fear that is shaped by what happened to us and how long it has taken us to get here and unfortunately the reality it could be taken away. And sometimes having people tell you relax or whatever brings up those old IF feelings like oh you're trying too hard, etc. except it's with pregnancy now. ((Hugs))

juliannat · March 2011

What smilee said. And can you maybe think of PAIF as a safe place compared to, say, when you are only going to the OB and are just another "regular" patient? That can be tough to adjust to after all the hand holding we get as RE patients...so maybe PAIF and its wider range of pg people can be a bit of a stepping stone?

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