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Working Moms
jellybelly03
member
Career Change? Lawyer to teacher...
jellybelly03
member
in Working Moms
I have been having a total career crisis since getting back from maternity leave. I am an attorney and I LOVED my job before I left: I was engaged in a case that I was working on, my boss was great, I had decent hours, etc. When I got back, there were some management changes in my office and it's distinctly less great than it was. I have some okay cases, but nothing out of this world. And I'm starting to think ahead to DS#1 starting school and the hours of school plus the vacations just make me think, "How on earth are we going to have two of us working full time?" So... I'm starting to think about doing a total career change to become a (math) teacher (I have a math background from before law school). But I know that I'm so ignorant about teaching and the hours that teachers put in, etc. To get certified, I would have to take some courses, so it's definitely an investment. So let me ask you: Teachers, how do you like it? What are your days like? How much time do you have to put in outside of regular school hours? What do you wish you knew before you became a teacher?
Thanks!
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Career Change? Lawyer to teacher...
Is there seriously nothing else that you could do relative to your own field? Part-time paralegal? Court clerk? Surely there must be other options for you besides this idea. You know math, but have you ever taught before?
Spend a day at a school and shadow a teacher for a full day.
I spent 3 semesters in grad school working towards a MAT (and about 15 years befor that thinking about it). One day in a typical high school and I knew that is not how I wanted to spend 8 hours a day.
Teaching jobs are not that easy to come by these days. Not that it's impossible, but with budget cuts, there are lots of out of work teachers against whom you would be competing.
Teaching is not for me - the schedule is great, but it is definitely not a job I would enjoy. And depending on the subject, there is A LOT of outside work.
Saying that you don't mean to be rude means you know you're being rude. Which you are. But it's okay - I do take your point. I did not mean to offend and I'm sorry that you took it that way. I have two kids running around, so don't have time to type an extensive novel about all of my other reasons for wanting to become a teacher. BUT, having a passion to educate our youth is honestly not enough to make me do a complete and total career change because I know that teaching is not a career that is "some sort of fall-back that anyone with a college degree can do." I would have to go back to school to get a master's degree (at least). And I'm not going to just jump out of a career that I've been in for a long time without doing some extensive research. I have the utmost respect for teachers and I think they do very important work. I actually would have a long term goal of working in education policy, which would join my law degree and interest in teaching. That would be many years down the line.
You're right - I knew that I was going to say something that would sound rude, but I was trying to be nice about it.
This has just gotten to be so popular - the idea that teaching is the best family-friendly job ever because you get out of work by 2:45 and have the whole summer off, and golly - I'm a college educated individual who kicked a$$ in my career, so why wouldn't I be a great teacher?
It honestly makes me angry to think that the people who may be teaching my children someday are people with that mentality, who got into teaching for the "family-friendly" hours and not because they genuinely enjoy and want to teach children. I guess I still consider teaching to be one of the "noble" professions that people enter because they have a true passion for teaching and not for the job perks.
I totally get that. It must be incredibly frustrating. For me, if it was all about the hours, I'd probably have already done it. But I know enough to know that it's *not* all about the hours, and I'm not sure I can cut it!
And to the pp who said something about a pay cut. It's true that it would probably be a pay cut, but probably not as much as you'd think... I work for the government
I am also a lawyer. I had wanted to be a teacher and can't remember why I chose law school instead -but in any case finding a teaching position these days is tough. In CA there are pink slips constantly to young teachers who are very motivated.
If it's more of a wanting to give back and have more flexibile hours, what about looking into a non-profit. Maybe of them have legal programs.
Or teach at a different level, like community college or even law school (depending on what you do, I'm currently teaching a writing course at a law school and it satisfies my teaching *bug* while not having to worry about being pink slipped)
not all lawyers are raking it in.
There are many teachers in my area, who earn more than I do AND have better hours.
Not yet quiet a mom, but I couldn't help but respond.
I did decide to go back to get my teaching licence. However, both of my parents are teachers, so I knew first hand what I was getting into. And I didn't do it for the hours, I did it because I didn't want others to hate science the way that I did when I was in high school.
First, people's suggestions of subbing or shadowing a teacher for a day(s) is a great idea. You will get a first hand view of what it is really like.
Second, how do you deal with jumping through hoops? There will be a lot of this to get just your teaching degree. Then you have to go about taking tests and getting your licence.
Third, how do you deal with people telling you what to do? For example, you will have special education students in your classroom. Their IEP might say something that you disagree with. However, you still have to do it even though you know/think it not to be the best for the student.
Fourth, how do you take constructive critisim? You will be evaluated extensively. I am not saying that this is a bad thing, I'm just saying that you have to be able to take this with a grain of salt and not take it personally.
Other thoughts - how will you deal with teenage students snotting off to you? Do you deal with stress in a positive manner? Now days, the big push is to have teacher pay tied with student acheivement. Remember, you can not control if they have had any sleep, food or if they are dealing with major life events. All of this ties in with how they do on the test. It is very stressful. Another thing that they are pushing for is for tenure to be out the window. Good bye job security. How will you feel if you spend all of that money to go back to school and get a job but get fired just because your boss doesn't like you and you can't find another teaching job without moving? Are you a go go go person? If not, I'd seriously reconsider it. You will be up on your feet moving around all day long. And the hours? You need to be realistic and understand that you will be working waaaaay more than 40 hours, especially with all of the IEP meetings, grade level meetings, school wide meetings, union meetings and parent confrences that need to be scheduled outside of regular confrence time. This doesn't even take into account all of the grading, planing, preping and organizing.
Don't get me wrong, I love my job and smile everyday on my way in to work. I'm incredibly lucky and I take my job very seriously. I just think that there is way more to the job than what you are realizing. I wish you all the best in making your decision.
My husband made that exact change--lawyer to teacher--about 10 years ago.
The result? He's happier (usually). Life is more predictable (generally). He makes less money (definately).
Although he loves what he does and is very, very good at it (yes, with the test score improvements to back that up), he is very disheartened to see what's going on right now in education. Class size up. Salaries down. No support from administration or the public. Scapegoated for systemic issues that have endured for decades.
Iheartcosmos--I'm guessing those individuals have been teaching for a while. With a Master's and a JD, my husband makes less with 7 years of experience in teaching than an individual with 7 years experience makes at my advertising agency. That would probably include the differential for a 12- vs 10-month work week.
Also, know that a teacher's schedule is "family-friendly" only in that it has set hours, and holidays that USUALLY coincide with student holidays. There is, however, ABSOLUTELY no flexibility. No coming in late after a doctor's appointment (or event at your kids school). No working from home with a sick kid. No skipping teacher training days because you don't have child care. It's the reliability of DH's schedule, combine with the hectic-but-flexible nature of mine (and a good support system of sitters) that makes it doable.
I giess what I'm saying is that teaching is not a panecea for your woes.
I've been teaching for 5 years and only recently did it get better (like down to 40 hours/week). A typical day is the following:
5:30 am - wake up, pack lunch (no going out to get anything at lunch time anymore), feed baby, etc
7am - leave for school, plan mentally during the drive
8am - arrive at school (after day care drop off)
8-8:15 copy morning work for students and take chairs down
8:15-11:15 teaching straight through, no bathroom break, no making copies I forgot, nothing
11:15-12:00 kids outside (2 days/week I'm out with them, the other 3 I'm planning),
12:00-12:30 lunch with kids (so it has to be healthy and I have to keep working while I eat)
12:30-3:00 teaching again (I do have some planning in the afternoons, but only 30 min on the days I have it and even then it's often interrupted).
3:00-?? Dismiss children, chat with parents, staff meetings etc
??-5ish Planning
I'm FINALLY at a point in my career where I'm taking less work home but I used to bring home an hour or more of stuff every night, more on weekends.
During planning time I have to: plan lessons, prep materials, gather books, email parents, create "stuff" for special needs kids, write reports, plan field trips, grade papers, generate homework, check homework and much more.
There's also a lot of out of school time for school events etc, which is likely not a big deal if you have kids and they'd want to go to the events anyway, but before kids it was annoying and even now with my son is annoying because he's not old enough to enjoy the events.
I don't mean to say that you shouldn't be a teacher if you want to, but you asked for a realistic look at the time commitment. Also, keep in mind that this is after 5 years. I often stayed at work until 7pm or later in my first year. I've heard high school is different though because you have more prep time and less variety in your lessons. My mom teaches high school math and rarely brings work home.
I'm a teacher but not a mom. I lurk a little on here because I wonder if I could work when I have a child.
I teach 2nd grade at a charter. I work at least 50 hours a week. My first year it was closer to 60. About 10 nights a year we have to stay from 7am-8pm (conferences, concerts, PTO). The average teacher (secondary and elementary) works 50 hours a week (according to my text book
)
My typical day is 7:00-get things ready, copies, set up,7:25 kids start arriving, 2:00 They go home 2-4:30 meetings 3 times a week and the others are prep (creating plans, creating smartboard, flip charts, newsletters, field trip plan, grading, cleaning, parent emails).
My typical day is 7am-5pm, not including my drive. I have one twenty minute prep and a 30 minute lunch each day.
We don't really get 3 months off. We finish in the middle of June and go back the middle of August. Teachers start working well before students go back and often have summer trainings to go to that are unpaid.
I do LOVE my job. I'm having an impact on these kids! It's never boring. It's non stop work and can be very draining. Parents complain a lot, especially with email. The snack schedule isn't how I think it should be....tell my child to put their paper in the folder instead of backpack...
"Some classes " to get certified? The programs around here take $20,000, 30 master credits, and at least two years.
It can be a great job, but the market is horrible for teachers. The average job in my area (Twin cities) gets 50,000 applicants. Burn out rates are high as well, but if you're passionate about it, I think you can do it. It's not easy; it's an art. Good luck with your decision!
I teach middle school language arts. I'd rather work w/ adults than try to motivate kids to want to do work and want to learn and deal w/ parents who swear they're going to get on their kids, and absolutely nothing changes (I do work in an urban school so there are those typical issues). However, I don't want it bad enough to give up getting home at 3, having 2 months off in the summer, and periodic days and weeks off.
Many teachers will state they work all sorts of hours and all through the summer. I could see where that is true w/ elementary school teachers, but I don't have those issues. I plan 3 lessons and give them twice. I don't need to cut or paste or alot of other prep work elementary school teachers need to do. My students need time to read or write silently, some times I use that time to conference, other times I can get in grading and planning. Many teachers also complain about their salary. Where I work I started at $45,000, when I got my masters I was at $56,000 , and after 15 years I'll be making $100,000, which is middle-class to upper middle-class where I live, however it's not lawyer salary. If you need extra money though, there is plenty of opportunities to work after school and during the summer. Prior to DD I did and many other teacher w/out kids do.
The cons are it is not a flexible job. When she is in school it will be rare I can take off to go on a field trip, play, or class party. I was hoping to be able to do those things, and I hope to find a p/t teaching job, but atleast I'll be there to pick her up or not long after she gets home. Our school just changed hours so teachers get out at 2:25, and my town gets out at 3:00. Hopefully it stays that way so I'll be there to get her.
Feel free to PM if you want more info - but I was a paralegal at a big firm, then taught at an elementary school in the inner city - then went to law school and now I am a lawyer at a big firm. Teaching is the HARDEST thing I ever done. I know I was at a really high needs school so it wouldn't be like that everywhere - but there were lots of fights at my school - especially at recess. In general, I think inspiring knowledge is really hard work! I didn't sit down all day and I barely got a lunch break (and my planning periods were always canceled). I do think I gained good leadership experience that I can apply in any field. I know teaching is a good schedule but I just really didn't have the personality for it. You need to be really thick skinned and not let things get to you!
At times, I think about trying to get a job teaching Legal Writing or some sort of legal studies at a community college.
GL!
I agree with this. I would also just consider all of your options. Maybe going in house or doing something in that leverages some experience you have but in a not traditional way (sales, services, consulting, etc.) can give you more flexibility with better QOL.
I can't help but respond even though I have no children. Of course, the reason I have no children is because I can't having a child during my first few years of teaching.
We do have "family" friendly hours in the aspect that you are usually on break when your children are on break. Unless you are like many of my co-workers who work in a different district than their children attend.
However, if you think you will be bringing your children to work with you and leaving at the end of the day when they are done you are sadly mistaken. Also, while we have breaks the time we are working is set and contracted. I have two personals days per year and more than enough sicks days. But, I can't run errands or take an extra long lunch. There is no leaving early for the day because I have a doctor's appointment. If I have to see the doctor during the school day, I'm am required to use half of a sick day because subs don't come in for the last 30 minutes.
Also, during summer I often spend at least one day a week at school preparing and enhancing my current teaching for the following year.
I also can't begin to describe the emotional/mental exhaustion that comes with loving 24 children. They are on my mind constantly, I worry about them if they are sick or if their parents are divorcing and I'm seeing that they are struggling. I am constantly trying to figure out what will make each one motivated and tick. I can't walk through a book store without finding the perfect book for a student so my measley income also spends a LOT of money on my classroom.
Also, when I received my teaching job there were 400 applicants for 5 positions and this is typical in my state. I don't know of a location where there is a teacher shortage.
I'm not saying that we don't have our perks, but please do not go into a job as important as teaching because you think it will be better for you schedule. That is the absolute wrong reason and it will come out in your performance.
I'm a special education teacher and mom - I have to be honest that I LOVE my schedule. I don't think there is much better out there for parents. My district is very family oriented and that is also nice. School starts at 7:40 and is out at 2:25. Usually, I am home by 3:00. There are days, I stay later to work with some of my kids or have IEP meetings, but not usually. I get my paperwork done during my planning time - I'm pretty efficient with my time. Don't get me wrong, it's not easy and I've been teaching 7 years now, so I feel like I know how to get done what needs to get done.
Saying all that, I knew that I wanted to be a teacher from before I could remember. I truly love what I do, even though I work with some of the toughest kids in the building. Just really think about if you will love what you do. I work with some people who I don't know how they ever got in the profession - without going into major details, they're terrible. Kids don't forget and you'll be a huge influence in their lives. I like the suggestion of shadowing different teachers at different grade levels.
Also, I'm not sure what the outlook is in your area, but in Ohio, state funding is a major mess and schools are making cuts EVERYWHERE. So, no one is hiring. Who knows when we'll see a shift. Just another thing to consider! Good luck!
I'm a lawyer and my mom is an elementary school teacher. Excluding the summer, I probably work on average 2 hours more a day than she does (and this doesn't include the time she puts in taking classes to keep her certifications current, packing up her classroom at the end of the school year, going to school events, etc.). I make almost 3 times her salary. She has her master's degree and has been teaching since she graduated college at 21 (she's 57). I'm 30 and have been practicing 4.5 years.
To me, it's not worth the pay cut. After I have a baby, I'm going on a reduced schedule and will probably have the same hours as her during the school year, and I will still be making more than double her salary. Maybe instead of changing careers you could look at changing schedules in your current job? Or if your job isn't flexible, moving to a firm that is?
In terms of stress, I think the two jobs are about equal. I have a lot of high pressure deadlines and bosses with big personalities I have to deal with. I also have the support of staff and the flexibility to change my schedule within reason (leave early, come in late, do errands during the workday, take the occasional long lunch, etc.) My mom has to deal with unruly children all day, sometimes unruly parents, and a lot of administrative red tape. She also has pressure from school administration and from the yearly state testing requirements (we live in MA). She has no flexibility with her schedule -- she has to get someone to cover for her if she needs to run down the hall to use the restroom. Then again she gets the summer off (although she's often taking classes for part of it) and she truly enjoys what she does.
Ditto this X a million. I like how when people contemplate getting a law degree as a new career they get high fives, but if you contemplate switching careers to teaching, you get jumped on because I am sure there are no teachers who went in to that field due to the hours and family friendly schedule. <eye roll>. I am a lawyer as well and am somewhat disillusioned with the practice of law, so I don't blame the OP at all for contemplating a career change.
DD #1 passed away in January 2011 at 14 days old due to congenital heart disease
DD#2 lost in January 2012 at 23 weeks due to anhydramnios caused by a placental abruption
There are already a million responses, but I just wanted to say that I am working on a career change right now to become a high school teacher. I am a Marketing Director and I want to teach Marketing in Career and Technical Education at the high school and community college levels. I took about 2-3 years to make this decision and did a lot of research. I have always wanted to teach, so I did have a drive already to get into the classroom and most of my family is made up of teachers so I've had the opportunity to spend lots of time in the classroom.
One thing that really helped me was to job shadow a marketing teacher. They are extremely busy and do have a crazy hectic schedule. My current job requires travel and crazy events all the time and sometimes long hours, so I feel like I am prepared in that way. In spite of all of that I was extremely insipired and excited by the experience. I am about 1 year into my program and I find that every class I take is actually really inspiring and fun. Those are all good signs to me. Its always scary to make a career change and I wish you the best of luck in making yoru decision. Every career has positives and negatives so just be sure you are as informed as possible and get some experiences in the classroom before you jump in and you will be fine.
I am a guidance counselor, so I have a teacher schedule. It is NOT shorter hours. We are here at 745 (school bell rings at 810) and our contract day ends at 330. I do outside work a lot. My DS is dropped off to me at 330 and so I usually try to finish up what I am doing and be out the door at 4. That means I am doing stuff at home.
People in education, LOVE what they do and do it because they are passionate. YES, the time off is great, but you work SO hard during the time you DO work that it is really a much needed time to recoup. Many of us stop by over break to take car eof some things and even bring stuff home with us.
Now, I did not major in education and I decided to go into education for many reasons. I DO love the schedule and it does help with a family. But, it is hard for me to be out because I am only one person, and just like a teacher it is hard to have a sub fill in effectively. I also did it because I love children and am really passionate about what i do. I pursued my masters in counseling for this reason and I knew I wanted to focus on school counseling.
Let's see...
I get up at 5:30 am to be able to get to work by 6:45 am, so that I can set up my board, arrange my agenda for the day, and have an inevitable parent/teacher conference.
I'm on my feet from 7:40 until 2:45 with a 30 minute break for lunch at 10:35. I don't have a planning period, so I don't get any break in the middle of the day to grade, plan, sit down.
I stay at school until 5:00 pm, grading papers, planning lessons, tutoring math (we are required do 1 extra curricular activity) and having more parent teacher conferences.
I get home between 5:30 and 6:00, depending on traffic and make dinner, spend some time with the girls, put them to bed, and continue to plan for the next week.
Closer to state testing, I'm doing double the work, trying to get my students to remember information that they covered 2 years prior since they haven't been tested on the subject in 3 years.
I put in 60 hour weeks and get paid 38K a year.
I love teaching, but is it "easier" or "comfier" than any other job? F*** NO.
Those spring breaks? summer breaks? Yeah, they're nice, but I STILL have to do work AND plan AND grade during my time off... AND field misconceptions that teaching is a nice, cushy job for someone with a family.