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Attachment Parenting
SIDS and instincts
So, when I was reading more sleep books I read the kitchen floor analogy a few times with regards to the problems with rocking to sleep, nursing etc. It went something like:
Imagine you're asleep in your nice cozy bed, surrounded by your pillows and blankets cuddled up with your husband. Now imagine that when you briefly stir between sleep cycles, and discover you're on a hard kitchen floor without a pillow. Of course you'd be upset!
I remember that every time I read that analogy I'd think "so, why are we trying to train our kids to sleep on hard kitchen floors?"
Anyway, I wonder how the SIDS prevention movement has our generation by reinforcing the idea that our instincts about sleep (creating a cozy space, co-sleeping, babies on tummies) are wrong and could kill our babies. I read something the other day about responding to crying and referred to it as an obsolete instinctual drive (what?!?!?!). It got me thinking about the influence of science and society on instincts. I'm curious as to how many generations it takes for a society to lose what was once considered an instinct. Odds are (without a change in the research) our kids will have very little exposure to the idea of a super-comfy bassinet with lots of pillows and padding (which I'd assume is based on an mammalian instinct that goes waaaaay back).
Any anthro ladies with insight?
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Re: SIDS and instincts
I'm the wrong girl to ask. Not only am I deathly afraid of SIDS (lost a family member to it) and have no problem putting my baby to sleep on a firm crib mattress if that'll keep her safe (I do NOT view my lovely organic crib mattress, my lovingly-chosen baby bedding and my beautiful, calm, cozy nursery as "the kitchen floor"), I threw my Pantley across the room when it became clear to me she was speaking to her readers like we were all illiterate idiots. At one point she feels the need to define all those "hard" words in a study quote for us, because clearly we ain't never gonna get what them scientist-types is sayin'. "Hard words" like "pernicious."
I'm a huge fan of science. I don't think science and my embrace of science is making me lose my mothering instinct AT ALL. I had an induction and an epidural (the eeeevil science!) and I BFed my baby as soon as she was born, and she was alert and wonderful. I put my baby in the sturdy crib wih the firm mattress and the breathable bumpers down the hall, and I wake up and go to her as soon as she starts fussing -- I can hear her and respond just fine. Her cries still bother me on that primal level, I still like to smell her all over when we've been separated for more than a few hours, I love to cuddle and hold her and wrap her up in softness while I'm awake and keeping an eye on her.
I also think science backs up the mothering instinct a lot more often than people give it credit for, like showing that mom's can often pinpoint fever in their infants with the "kiss test" and similar.
There are a billion and one ways to parent a child, and to question and shame and make mothers feel guilty for taking one piece of advice over another. *My* instinct says *my* bed is not a safe place for *my* newborn. I don't need dueling camps of pediatricians to argue otherwise. YMMV
I guess I've never thought it is instinctual to get a lot of covers or pillows for a baby, or to have baby sleep on his/her tummy (as opposed to back - honestly, it's harder to put them down that way in the beginning, I think) on a bed/bassinet, etc. Honestly, the most instinctual way that I have felt 'feels right' for baby to sleep is on my chest (at least while I'm awake/upright) which isn't a SIDS risk at all. It feels awkward for me to have baby on my chest when I'm laying down, to be honest.
I guess the pillow top mattresses/excessive blankets, etc that are most risk with co-sleeping I don't really see as instinct but as something that is taught by society, personally, since they're so far from anything we could get 'naturally'. I agree SIDS prevention has spoken out against cosleeping a bit more - but I've read enough/been informed enough to realize that if done safely, it's not a SIDS risk. I think at this point the information is out there, it's just finding it and making sure pediatricians, etc, give the best information on how to cosleep safely if that is their patients' choice.
I'm not an anthro person.. but I still have an opinion, lol.
I think that it's not necessarily science perse, but just people not doing research. I'm constantly quoted that by co-sleeping I'm increasing DD's risk of SIDS, when actually it's the opposite.
Back in the 40-50s' they gassed women and strapped them to beds to have their babies, because thats what the prevailing people thought was best. I honestly think in another 10-20 years we'll be seeing research about how the epidurals and pitocin was detrimental to SOME (not all, I'm not saying all. I'm simply saying some) births.
I've honestly never read sleep books. I go by instinct. When it seemed to me that Keevia was going to be in our bed for more than a night or two, I looked up safe co sleeping "rules" (Dr. Sears). Then I went with that. When she was no longer sleeping well in our bed or our room, I moved her to her crib. When she stopped sleeping well in her crib, I moved her to our bed again. She's now back in her crib again.
I think c-sections, and other scientific breakthroughs are amazing. They have their place. But I completely trust my instincts and don't trust science, and the ever changing "best" if it goes against my instincts (I.E. DD not being close to me when sleeping when she was little).
Yeah, I don't know that covers pillows specifically are, but making a soft, comfy place to sleep is something that most mammals do (or at least find a place if they don't have the skills to create it). It also seems a lot of toddlers gravitate towards beds with lots of lovies and covers. M has a pillow and his stuffed elephant now at home but daycare can't allow both because of SIDS precautions.
We just got M a peapod for traveling and a lot of the reviews (maybe erroneously) referred to how their kids loved it and surmised it was because it gave them that closed in, secure cave-like feeling. M loves hanging out in blanket tents and tunnels so I'm curious to how it'll go but it also triggered my thoughts on the evolution of sleep.
I don't know how tummy sleeping evolved because you're right, the transition from rocking to tummy would be crazy awkward, but I know there are many moms who anxiously watch their LOs because they sleep so much better on their tummies than backs but they are afraid of allowing them to tummy sleep.
Agreed. It also reminded me of the times when "science" said that BFing was bad and how we're still working ourselves out of that pendulum swing. I wonder as the research comes in on SIDS and co-sleeping if it won't be any different that the prevalent "science" opinions take a 180 degree turn. However, if BFing is rates are any indication, it'll take generations to change the social norms and counteract bad information.
I didn't take enough time to really think this post through, but its an interesting topic so I had to chime in
Sleeping arrangements really vary by culture and environment. In warm environments, people tend to sleep further away from each other and they sleep closer to each other in cooler environments (sorry, don't have my sources right now). I think the most intinctual part of infant/child sleep comes into play with proximity to the mother. I still have a very strong urge to sleep as close as possible to my baby. That is how I can protect him through the night. I think mothers in warm environments would probably put their babies in a hammock or maybe on a sleep surface that would allow for lots of moving air. Moms in a colder environment might keep their babies as close as possible to provide body heat.
I have read the same thing about some person saying the crying instinct is obsolete. Ridiculous.
Evolution is a very slow process. I think it would take a long time - thousands of years, to lose a true instinct. However, you can easily lose wisdom that should be passed down from generation to generation (there is a real word for it, but its not coming to me right now). For example, in many (most? I don't know) women used to birth on their own or with the assistance of a midwife or other females in the society. Although we haven't lost our instincts when it comes to birthing or the physiology/biology of birthing by ourselves, we are losing the wisdom that our great grandparents and older generations knew. Sure we can birth on our own, but it sure would be helpful if someone who has been there before gave us the helpful details.
I think this is the kind of thing that is happening with breastfeeding. Although women still have the physiology to breastfeed, when we don't see other people doing it or if we don't have people helping us, we don't know how to do it.
Part is instinct and part is knowledge. I don't think they always (or ever, maybe) work independently.
Getting cozy in a bed might have something to do with protection - protection from the elements, hiding from prey, etc. So I do think you have a point there. People tend to feel safe in bed with covers, etc.
I think a lot of our knowledge about babies still comes from watching older generations or learning from them. I know some grandmas who bundle up babies in tons of covers and pjs, but that is because they didn't have central heat and air and it would get cold at night. To a large extent, I think it is good that knowledge evolves with time. However, we have to be careful not to lose all of the knowledge/wisdom because sometimes science is wrong, society is wrong, and cultural norms change.
Well, I personally think the flame retardants and chemicals in our blankets and mattresses are a big part of SIDS so maybe cozy beds would be fine if we didn't treat them with heavy gassesthatfloat around baby's face.
But that's a whole other battle. I want to wrap my mattress.
We CS with DS from night one. We had a bassinet but he was able to roll to his side and I really don't think the majority of them are safe since they don't breathe well. So he slept with us and it was fine. Now, I do look at other newborns and it makes me slightly nervous to think of how sleep deprived I was and how small he was. But we were always very careful with no shirts on me or DH, no pillows, and blankets on only our legs.
I don't have sources either, but I'm pretty sure the majority of SIDS deaths associated with CS happen when no adult is in the bed. The child becomes entangled in the sheets or falls between the mattress and wall. And don't more babies die of SIDS in cribs than in their parents' beds? But I think we all know about all those types of statistics.
I don't think you lose any of your insticts by putting a baby in a bassinet or crib. That's insane. Studies have been done on adults with no children. They listen to a crying newborn and over 90% react with a sense of urgency and high heart rate. And what parents who do CS put their babies in a pile of blankets? My problem with the "crying instinct" being obsolete is that it doesn't make sense when you think of it in terms of evolution. A child who is crying will attract predators. That, with feeding the baby to further the race, are the earliest reasons to help a crying infant.
Nope, I'm not anthro either. I think that parents who want to CS should do it safely. But I also completely understand why many parents don't. It was the most frightening idea in my mind until Jackson hit 12 months.
I don't understand how SIDS became synonomous with suffocation. I thought SIDS was sudden, unexplained death. To me, a baby whose air supply became blocked due to a crib bumper (or a soft mattress or blanket or whatever) did not die of SIDS. He/she suffocated.
I keep "science" in the back of my mind, but my instinct trumps it. I started bedsharing with DS when he was about 3 weeks old and I kept pillows and blankets in the bed. My arm was always under or above his head, so there was no way he could get to the pillows, and I kept the covers up to his waist and put my other arm around him on top of the covers. I'm a very light sleeper and hardly move at all in my sleep, so I personally felt comfortable doing this. My instinct told me that if DS was ever in trouble in the bed, I would awaken right away.
BFP #2 12/26/11 ~ EDD 9/6/12 ~ MMC discovered on 1/27/12 @ 8w1d (measured 6w2d)
BFP #3 8/10/12 ~ EDD 4/23/13 ~ MMC discovered on 9/13/12 @ 8w2d (measured 6w6d)
I agree with pretty much all of the pp.
I wanted to add as well that while it's common and normal for mammals to "nest" their offspring, most mammal infants are lightyears ahead of human infants of similar age when it comes to motor skills.
The risks are not the same when you compare humans to other mammals.
Because there are a lot of studies telling us that babies inhale too much carbon dioxide when their faces are too close to a surface which doesn't breathe, like blankets. They don't have the force to get the carbon dioxide away from their faces like we do.
Yes, but again, that is an explained cause of death.
BFP #2 12/26/11 ~ EDD 9/6/12 ~ MMC discovered on 1/27/12 @ 8w1d (measured 6w2d)
BFP #3 8/10/12 ~ EDD 4/23/13 ~ MMC discovered on 9/13/12 @ 8w2d (measured 6w6d)
https://www.sidsprevention.com/co2andsids.html
True, that wasn't the best analogy. However, when the plains indians had an elk hide vs a buffalo to sleep on, they always seemed to use the fluffy buffalo for a sleeping surface. :-) If you look at the evolution of American bedrooms, as our access to soft, cheap materials have advanced, our tendency seems to be toward softer. Maybe SIDS research (and back problems for adults) was just what we needed to reach that tipping point and balance between firm and soft.
Thanks for posting that link. It has a lot of info I wasn't aware of.
BFP #2 12/26/11 ~ EDD 9/6/12 ~ MMC discovered on 1/27/12 @ 8w1d (measured 6w2d)
BFP #3 8/10/12 ~ EDD 4/23/13 ~ MMC discovered on 9/13/12 @ 8w2d (measured 6w6d)
Agreed that our level of softness/fluffiness in bedding is pretty new, so our lizard brains don't account for it. Not cosleeping is also new, in an evolutionary sense- so not being there with the baby to monitor/influence breathing.
As to instincts to respond to crying disappearing... pretty much not going to happen. First, responding to crying is caring about the welfare of your child, which will always be adaptive, even in a society where so many risks are controlled or mitigated by technology. Even if it was not needed, but was just a neutral trait that neither furthered nor hindered the survival and reproductive success of our children, it would take thousands of generations for a trait that is nearly universal in the population to go down much at all.
From what Anthro I have studdied I get the wanting to "nest" and prepare for your baby but I think this differs not only culturally but generationally as well. I think we can find things wrong with all theories and practices scientifically founded or emotionally founded.
I am love science my baby girl was brought into this world safely because of it. BUT I trust myself and I get asked all the time "well since you co-sleep are you not worried about SIDS" I think we all have to decide whats the best for our babies and what we are comfortable with. We practice AP because we all believe in one or more of its principal beliefs there are other people out there that think CIO is the best thing ever and Ferberizing and what have you. They have decided thats the best for their babies... KWIM?