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Hawaii Babies
Married2MrWright
member
I let Libby CIO last night
Married2MrWright
member
and I feel awful. I couldn't take it anymore. This was day FOUR of no sleep unless I held her tightly in the rocker recliner. I just couldn't sleep that way for another night (because I don't sleep and my body gets all wrenched up).
Anyway, last night she cried when I held her, cried when I put her in the bed with me and cried if I rocked her so I decided that if she was going to cry, then she could do it in her crib. I used the pick up/put down method for about 15 minutes and that seemed to just piss her off even more. So then I rocked her to calm her down and put her in her crib (awake) and laid on the daybed so she could hear me but I wasn't right next to the crib (we had a nightlight on and her lullaby CD playing, which we do every night). She cried some more. About 30 minutes.
I calmed her down again, told her "night night" which she said back to me, so I know she knew it was time to sleep. I put her in the crib and left the room. She went ballistic. SO angry! I laid in my bed in the next room with J and we waited it out. 15 minutes. Another 15. We almost went in, since now the total time since I had started was 1 hour, but he said, "wait 10 more minutes." And damn if on the VERY last minute, she didn't stop. Silence. I had no idea if she was asleep or playing or what. We don't have a video monitor. So, we waited 20 more minutes, went in and confirmed that she was asleep in her crib. But it was pitiful. She was have sitting and slumped over with her head wedged into the corner of her crib. I moved her down a bit so she was more lying down than sitting.
Then I went to bed and worried about what I had just done. 
It was horrible listening to her scream and cry and "realized" that mama wasn't coming. I feel like I broke her spirit a bit last night.
She slept 90 minutes in her crib and then let out a light wimper. I waited. It got louder. So I went in and got her and brought her back to our bed. She nursed for a bit and went back to sleep with us, as usual. She's still sleeping.
Here's the deal, I don't mind bedsharing and in this cold weather, actually prefer it (our house is not well insulated so it gets cold at night). But she's not been sleeping in our bed even. She'd be up every hour, crying or talking. SO FRUSTRATING! So last night I just snapped. I was done with it. I figured if she was going to cry right next to me, or when I was holding/rocking her, then she could cry in her crib.
Not sure what we'll do tonight. Last night it was three hours of her carrying on before I decided to let her CIO. I don't want to do it again tonight. But we'll see.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: I let Libby CIO last night
Lori, I'm so sorry that you went through that! We HAD to do that with Bella too. It was around the 9 month mark when we transitioned her to her crib. It was REALLY difficult. She had to CIO because I was at my wits end like you. I had tried everything and read every single sleep book I could get my hands on. We co-slept but then, like Libby, she stopped sleeping well in our bed. She'd wake up crying and she was kicking and thrashing around all night. It was tough for all of us and none of us were getting sleep so we knew our days of co-sleeping had to be done. With Bella, like Libby, she got VERY angry if you went in and picked her up and then put her back down... instead of making it "better" by doing that, I was actually making it worse for her and for me. I honestly had tried everything I read and NOTHING that I read worked for us. The ONLY thing that worked was to let her CIO for those few nights. I'm a firm believer that babies/toddlers need solid good sleep in order to learn, grow and develop. She's SO much happier when she gets good solid sleep.
It sounds to me that you tried everything you could think of and you did what was best for you and for Libby and J. I KNOW it was difficult. I know you feel terrible (I felt the exact same way). But you are HELPING Libby, you aren't harming her in any way. You are doing the best you can as a parent and that's all you can do. There's no manual for each kid (oh how I wish there was!) and it's trial and error. I know it took some time last night but be patient and be consistent and see what happens. Consistency is key for us!
Does Libby have a lovey? Shortly after we transitioned to the crib Bella found a stuffed bunny in her room and attached to it and she's slept with it every night since. I go in every night before i go to bed and she's straddling (like it's a big body pillow) or cuddling the bunny. I think that helps her too, in case she wakes up, she finds bunny and then goes back to sleep. One night she couldn't find bunny and I went in, handed her bunny and she cuddled her and went back to sleep, I never had to pick her up!
Thankfully for us, each night she cried a little less and it was a little less difficult to listen to. I think it took us about 3 nights total. She was still nursing when we transitioned to the crib, I just had to be very strict with myself to nurse her in the chair and then put her back in her crib when she was done nursing. She woke to night nurse until she was about 11 1/2 months old. Then she stopped night nursing and was sleeping solid from 7pm-5am. I can't tell you what it felt like to finally sleep solid for all of those hours! Now she sleeps from 7pm-7am sometimes even 7:30! It's like pure bliss for me especially since we'll be having #2 in a couple of short months.... and they days of no sleep AND having a toddler will begin. I can't imagine how challenging that will be.
**Big hugs**
oh reading these made me so sad.
Adair sleeps in our room, but in her crib. At some point we are going to have to move her into her own room, but not planning on it until she is consistently STTN. I hope she easily adjusts to the different room b/c I am not looking forward her CIO.
I am sure it only gets easier and easier for all babies. Good luck with Libby if you decide to try it again tonight!
awwww, i'm sorry *hugs* i know it breaks every mama's heart to hear her baby crying like that. but you are right....if she is going to cry no matter what you do or where you put her then does it really matter where she is?
first, i want to tell you that i did the pu/pd method with Miss A around 8 months of age...at that point she was able to pull up to standing and would get up and scream.... prior to that i'd always put her down and she'd go to sleep w/o a fuss but i think when she developed separation anxiety was when i had to do this...it's not easy and the first time you do it, it does seem like it makes things worse and they are escalating... but if you keep at it they will putter off and settle. i did find that i had to do a combo of picking her up as soon as she started crying again as well as waiting for her to stand back up and asking her "do you want me to pick you up?" like they tell you to do. granted - i did not read the book and only read notes about it on the baby whisperer forums so take it w/a grain of salt as i am no expert. but i found that the first day w/the pu/pd was the very hardest. she screamed bloody murder while i was doing it but thankfully after "just" one hour (i've read some babies will go on for 3-4 hrs the first time) she settled and went to sleep. the second time i did it and for several times after that it was "only" 30 minutes...and then by the 2nd day we were down to 15 minutes... i was not able to get her to stop crying all together using the pu/pd method..sometimes she'd be fine and other times she'd cry...but ultimately i think it shortened how long she would cry b/c then i'd just let her CIO and she'd only cry for 10 minutes max initially...and then it finally tapered off to like 30-60 seconds. i know how hard it is to hear them crying for you, esp when they are crying "mama, mama" over and over again. 30 seconds feels like 10 minutes!!!! but now she is back to going to bed w/o a fuss (about 80% of the time) and when she does fuss, we let her CIO and typically she is done crying after like 1 minute max! on the rare occasion that she continues beyond that, she still doesn't cry more than 10 minutes before she settles. it is hard and every baby is different and you have to figure out what works for your family but do not feel horrible about what you did. yes it is horrible to hear your baby crying but what you are doing in and of itself is not horrible.
that said, i also wanted to ask about her teething. i remember you mentioned that she might be teething again? i would consider the fact that she might be painful and that is why she is inconsolable, even in the bed w/you where she is normally ok. i know you don't want to give meds when you don't have to but you should try giving her some motrin and see if that helps her. there have been a few times where nothing i do seems to help Miss A and when i give her the motrin she feels well enough again to get some rest. just something to consider....
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
Hugs for you!
I'm not there yet, so I don't have any advice or experience to draw from, but I think this is wise:
Hang in there, mama!
I almost cried reading this. One night last week, after having him in bed with me but he wouldn't settle down, MH said, if we're going to let him cry, it might as well be in his own crib. My response was that his crying would only get worse. We are having the same issues, and I feel your pain.
LO is waking up frequently crying, like he is in pain. We're giving him motrin before bed every night (on advice from the pedi - I took him in last week b/c of the night wakings b/c they said he might have an ear infection, but he was perfect, so she blamed it on the teething). At least he's not waking up every hour, but it's probably 3-4 times/night still. Last night to get him to settle, I let him play with a booklight. He played with it for about 15 minutes until he got tired of it, then he laid down on my chest and went to sleep. I also bought a bottle of the J&J Lavender calming bath and have been using that the past 2 nights, hoping that would work to calm him. We also just started decideing on a bathtime to get the nighttime routine started, so hopefully that will help too.
You really are doing what you have to do to get some sleep for her. One of the things my LO really doesn't do well is self-soothe, and I really want him to be able to do that. I think I need consistency, and it sounds like you started that last night. I envy you, but I am procrastinating in doing what I'm sure will eventually need to be done.
I hope things go better tonight.
Hugs and sleepy dust to you!
I don't have a ton of time but just wanted to chime ina nd say that yes, you ARE helping Libby...and YOURSELF and J! Letting her CIO for a few nights will be worth ALL of you getting your proper rest in the future! I know it seems traumatizing, but she's never going to remember it will be a much happier child once she starts getting good sleep again. You and J will also benefit greatly as parents who have their bedroom and privacy back and are sleeping normally again!
Good luck to you!
I totally understand what you mean, if she is going to cry no matter what you need to find a new solution! Jack had a rough patch of days last month and I totally hit a wall.
this was my exact experience for nap time "sleep training" as soon as he learned to pull up. I kept at it and didn't leave the room because I wanted him to resign himself to sleep rather than resign himself to thinking his cries were not answered if that makes sense. BUT if I was going through what you are going through (especially knowing what it is like to just physically and emotionally hit a wall) I would definitely work towards ANY solution that worked for my family.
edit b/c I wasn't clear. I didn't do a full pick up. I would just help him lay back down and pat his back. After a couple of times he was more slow to pop right back up to standing.
I love Hawaii!
Tara & Ian . 4/24/2008 . The Kahala Planning . Married
I've let both of the boys CIO once, when they were on sleep strikes. Like you, I did it after trying EVERYTHING else - patting, rocking, shushing, giving teething gel, etc etc etc. At some point I ended up having to say, "Enough - you are big enough boys now that you understand that I'm not abandoning you and that I'll be back when I leave the room, and you need to sleep."
The pick up/put down method has never worked with either of our boys. It just gets them MORE worked up, presumably because they think they're going to get to be held as long as they want (i.e., all night) and then that doesn't happen so they get mad. It only seems to prolong the screaming process for my kids. (It's also impossible to rock Dash to sleep unless you intend to keep holding him, since he wakes up the instant his head touches the mattress.) So don't stress that that didn't work - I don't think it does for all babies.
I agree with Sarah that you are helping Libby by teaching her to sleep. She needs sleep to develop and thrive and she needs to know that she can sleep without you. I know it doesn't feel like you're helping - trust me, I know! I felt the exact same way as you ("I feel like I broke her spirit a bit last night"). Not all parents like this book, but one of the things he said in a section about CIO was that you shouldn't view it as teaching your child that they're being abandoned, but teaching them that they can sleep as separate, independent individuals. I know it might still seem like a somewhat harsh lesson since they're so young - and as a mama I always want to say, "But they're my baaaaaaaabies! They need meeeeeeee!" - but it helped me feel a little better.
You could also try a lovey, like Sarah mentioned. They don't seem to help Will or Dash - anything even remotely entertaining becomes a toy which gets played with even when they're exhausted - but I know they're useful for many kids.
You're the best mama that Libby could have, and you're doing a great job. This parenting thing is a tough jig - don't beat yourself up for doing the best you can, OK?
(((hugs)))
Tough is right!!
Thank you everyone for your words of wisdom and encouragement, you have NO IDEA how they were like a balm to my heart. I came home from work at lunchtime yesterday expecting Libby to be sour with me and she was all smiles and kisses. It's like she had no "hard feelings." It made me cry though because she is SO sweet and I felt guilty about being so harsh with her. I do know, it's best for her and for the rest of us, to get a good night's sleep.
So...we CIO last night, again. Starting at 7:30 p.m., I talked to her about sleeping in her crib on her own and she even asked to be put in there, where she snuggled some of her stuffed animals and played quietly while I got her bath ready. She is teething, but I really don't think she's been in more pain than before, I think this hysterics and bedtime has more to do with separation anxiety than teething. We do give her acetaminophen about 30 minutes before bedtime and if she really seems to be bothered I've also added Orajel before bed. We cannot give ibuprophen...every time I have given it to her she has projectile vomitted IMMEDIATELY. It's awful. So we go with the acetaminophen, even though it wears off in 4 hours rather than 8 with the IB.
We did our whole bath/bed /book routine and I nursed her in the rocking chair with the CD of lullabies that we play when it's time for a nap or bed. She was sleepy but awake and I placed her in her crib right at 8 p.m. The crying and screaming began. After about 30 minutes into it J went in and spent WAY TOO LONG comforting her.
So at 9 p.m. she basically started fresh with her crying and screaming. By 9:30 p.m. she was out.
Poor thing fell asleep again in a seated position (she must be standing and then finally get tired and just sit down and fall asleep). She was essentially in a cross legged position with her forehead on her feet. Pitiful sight for sure.
At 9:30 p.m., I tried to lay her on her side/back when I checked on her, so she was at least prone and that woke her up. She wimpered and I picked her up, gave her a squeeze, say, "night-nigt Libby. You're going to have good sleep in your bed." and laid her down. She fussed for less than a minute and was out. And stayed asleep, in her crib, in her own room for another 6 hours! HOORAY!
When she awoke at 2:30 a.m., I brought her to our bed. Mainly, because it is SO cold in our house right now. We're having extremely low temps for our area (wind chill = -7) and our house, with the heater on and space heaters in the bedrooms is hovering around 63-64 degrees (we have ALL tile/hardwood floors and not well-insulated roof or walls and crappy, old windows). So I tucked her into bed with us and she's still sleeping.
My plan is to get her starting the night in her crib and then, hopefully, at some point, she'll just sleep in there for longer and longer stretches without night-waking. I felt I had to chose either transitioning to the crib or night weaning and not try to do both at the same time. Knowing that the crib would be the bigger battle, we've started there. I think night-weaning will come on it's own as she continues to eat more solids during the day. Her intake has increased considerably in the last few weeks and she's already dropped one nursing session. That said, she goes about 6-7 hours at night without nursing, which I think is reasonable at her age. My goal is not to wean completely until she is closer to 18 months old and I'd probably be okay with nursing her once or twice a day until she's 2 (as long as I can handle it if/when I am pregnant).
I'd love to be able to nurse her before bed, put her in her crib without tears at 7:30/8 p.m. and have her sleep there until 5 a.m. when I get up for work. Then I'd like to be able to nurse her again and have her go back down, in her crib, until 7:30 a.m. or so. Please tell me this is a realistic goal.
And thank you again for sharing your experiences on the matter. I know every baby is different and that some will willingly transition to their own room/crib somewhat peacefully and for others, well, it's a battle royale. I am just SO grateful she's not screaming/crying for 2-3 hours as I have read on other blogs, etc. where they're letting their LO CIO. 1 hour is about my max limit. And gratefully, she's not made herself vomit either. I don't think I could take that.
Tonight is Night 3 of the process and I pray she gives in sooner than one hour. I am going to try to get her to spend up some of her physical energy before dinnertime so that our evening wind down might go even better tonight. Sometimes giving her a bath energizes her, rather than relaxing her, so I've recently tried incorporating a little massage with lotion into the routine as I get her into her nighttime diaper and PJs. I think it's helped and it's also been good for her skin with this cold/dry weather we're having. I keep dim lights, soft music, and low voices in her room and just let her read books/snuggle loveys...for the last 45-60 minutes before bedtime. No bright lights or toys with loud songs, blocks, musical instruments, etc. before bed, because it's too exciting for her.
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this is what we do - so taking into account that every baby is different - I can say that it works for at least someone!
I nurse Jack at bedtime, wait until his sucking slows, pull him off and then put him in his bed. Usually he pops his head up as soon as he's put in his crib. I shhhh, pat his back/side/tummy depending on how he settles in and then I say night night and leave the room. He babbles to himself for a couple of minutes and rolls around to find the right sleep position and then is out until 5:30. If he does wake up before then DH goes in to comfort him - this rarely happens anymore. Usually only if there was something unusual (like on date nights when my mom puts him to bed, or if he goes to bed at an odd early time or something). We do this because it's very clear he doesn't need the food and when I was more lax and offered it he started waking up more and more frequently - argh.
At 5:30 DH goes to get him and he nurses in bed with us then sleeps until we wake up closer to 6:30. He will stay asleep as long as we do (except on weekends we have tested that and his limit seems to be about 8:30, haha) but generally wakes up as soon as one of us starts to shower and get ready in the room.
This!
It's really rough. I'm dreading when we'll reach that point. Nowadays, if he cries, just picking him up will console him and if it doesn't, then bringing him to bed with us will but I'm afraid that it will only be a matter of time before nothing will console him and when it comes to that point, I think we will have no choice but to CIO too. I'm really dreading it and I can only imagine how rough it is, but I do think eventually they'll have to learn to self-soothe because it's the only way they can get any sleep. I hope it continues to get better these next nights for you. Lots of HUGS your way too!
i am so glad that night 2 went better! i think you know her best and if you don't think it's teething then it probably isn't. i only brought that up b/c you did not mention teething in your original post so i wasn't sure if you had considered it or if you had medicated at all. poor libby, sorry she doesn't seem to tolerate the motrin!
i hope she goes down even better for you tonight... and i kind of wonder if J hadn't walked in there how long she really would have cried, since after he left she went down in about 30 min. she may have been about to go down right before he walked in, who knows! i swear that every time i am just getting ready to go in (whether it is 5 min or 15 min), as soon as i get up from the monitor and start to walk towards the room, she stops, settles, and goes to bed! it's like they have a 6th sense or something
for bedtime routine i do feel that baby massage helps...and J&J does say that their lavender scented lotion helps them too, so that is something to consider. i am sure that lighting a lavender scented candle while you are doing lotion/PJs etc would be just as effective too
i can't believe how cold it is at your house right now! that could definitely be the cause of some of her night waking, as opposed to her being hungry, esp if she is eating a lot of solids. what do you dress her in at night? i am sure you already know this but if not (i never knew it until DH told me) remember that whatever it is that you need to stay warm (don't forget to count the blanket as a layer), she needs the same plus one more layer.
i think your goals are totally reasonable...and she could potentially even sleep more than what you are hoping for. i think my little peanut (with a very big appetite) started sleeping 8-9 hrs at night around 8.5-9 months.also keep in mind that just as soon as you get used to one schedule they change it on you!
we had been doing great for a while with a 7-7:30pm bedtime (started doing this around 8.5 months) until all of a sudden she started crying again when i'd put her to bed (this was around 11.5 months).... turns out she wasn't ready for bed yet so we shifted her bedtime to 8:30pm and then she stopped crying when i put her to bed! in your case it is more likely separation anxiety but i wanted to mention it as something to keep in mind for the future b/c it did not occur to me until DH suggested that as a possibility for her crying.
in any case, i hope that tonight went even better for you...it sounds like Libby is well on her way to self soothing which is great! hang in there, mama! you are doing great
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
Thanks!
Hmm...I may have to add long johns under her footed blanket sleeper. She also sleeps with a plushy, fleecy, mircrofiber blanket (there's actually two in the crib since she seems to want to ball one up to snuggle and the other we put over her once she's asleep). We're also using a mircofiber/plush crib sheet right now.
When she's in our bed she's always kicking ALL of the covers off and essentially is just in her footed blanket sleeper. She tends to run hot but then her ears and hands get cold.
I might try putting some socks and a onesie under her jammies tonight and see if that helps. I am not sure if she's waking because she's cold or not. I've been sleeping in flannel PJs with socks and we have flannel sheets on the bed plus a feather comforter (4 season), a cotton blanket and a thin, microfleece blanket.
I do have space heaters in each bedroom...both set to 64 because we find that when the door is closed it gets too toasty at higher settings (the house heater is on too...but is set to 66 because otherwise it'll run ALL night trying to heat up our FRIGID kicthen and bathroom (all tile) and our living room which has a 10 x 5 glass window!) The temps are supposed to be closer to normal for our area by this weekend...it's not normal for us to be under 10, let alone 0!
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