If you helped with my confrontation issue last night.. (f/u)

mkanderson85 · January 2011

As a follow up to my post last night about confrontation (https://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/47245382.aspx)

She didn't show up to either practice today (we are starting two-a-days since competition is this weekend.) I called her and she never picked up. I emailed her mother with a very long email and I told her that is he wants to quit, to let me know and that absence is not accepted/tolerated on my team. Now I just want to kick her off. Our constitution says that a missed practice gives you two demerits and it takes 5 to get kicked off. She has been late to practice ever since she was cut (which is one demerit each.) We'll see what happens tomorrow. I am so irritated with the situation.

Thanks for your input. I had every intention to talk to her today, but her no show status made that hard.

doremi29 · January 2011

Maybe this is her non-confrontational, immature way of quitting. I would say a lot of sophmores would probably do the same if they were not wanting to be part of a team anymore. I think it's good that you're keeping the mom in the loop- it's amazing how kids/teens will twist things!

LaurelBee · January 2011

I have a question: why did you cut her from the competition squad to begin with? Just because she looks at others while dancing and seems unmotivated?

mkanderson85 · January 2011

LaurelBee:

I have a question: why did you cut her from the competition squad to begin with? Just because she looks at others while dancing and seems unmotivated?

Because she looks at others the whole time, she is always one or two counts late and it is very noticeable. Our synchronization scores would plummet.

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

LaurelBee:
I have a question: why did you cut her from the competition squad to begin with? Just because she looks at others while dancing and seems unmotivated?

I just read the original post - I teach dance as well and she for SURE needs to be cut if she is looking around at others during the routine. That is a huge no-no as far as competition dance goes. It sounds to me like she didn't know the dance, and that will take huge points off your score.

I say she has enough demerits - she's off the squad.

ceceandme222 · January 2011

I have never been on a dance squad, but I briefly played lacrosse, which I was very bad at. I did it however to be with my friends and be involved with something. Instead of cutting me, I practiced with everyone, helped by keeping score at the games, and played occasionally when it wasn't really going to affect anything.

I think you are being really harsh on this girl. It is a school dance team, not a paid ballet. You could be a positive role model in her life even if she isn't letting you see that you are. Teenage girls are fickle like that.

And maybe her parents just suck. For someone with issues like hers, you would think they would be pro-active. Maybe that is part of her depression. I wouldn't push that she is removed from the team, she seems to have removed herself. I would let a guidance counselor know the situation. Lets hope she has something good to do during the times she would normally be at practice.

mkanderson85 · January 2011

ceceandme222:

I have never been on a dance squad, but I briefly played lacrosse, which I was very bad at. I did it however to be with my friends and be involved with something. Instead of cutting me, I practiced with everyone, helped by keeping score at the games, and played occasionally when it wasn't really going to affect anything.

I think you are being really harsh on this girl. It is a school dance team, not a paid ballet. You could be a positive role model in her life even if she isn't letting you see that you are. Teenage girls are fickle like that.

And maybe her parents just suck. For someone with issues like hers, you would think they would be pro-active. Maybe that is part of her depression. I wouldn't push that she is removed from the team, she seems to have removed herself. I would let a guidance counselor know the situation. Lets hope she has something good to do during the times she would normally be at practice.

We are a competitive team and it is very important to the members and to me. I also get paid the same amount as any other coach in the school because I produce winning results. It really irritates me that people look at a dance team as a stupid unimportant school activity. We seriously work hard, if not harder, than a lot of other sports.

The guidance counselor is now aware of the situation. I can't change the rules of the demerit system because she struggles with depression. What message does that send to the other girls?

ceceandme222 · January 2011

I think it is important, which is why I think that giving her some alternate role would help her self esteem.

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

ceceandme222:
I have never been on a dance squad, but I briefly played lacrosse, which I was very bad at. I did it however to be with my friends and be involved with something. Instead of cutting me, I practiced with everyone, helped by keeping score at the games, and played occasionally when it wasn't really going to affect anything.
I think you are being really harsh on this girl. It is a school dance team, not a paid ballet. You could be a positive role model in her life even if she isn't letting you see that you are. Teenage girls are fickle like that.
And maybe her parents just suck. For someone with issues like hers, you would think they would be pro-active. Maybe that is part of her depression. I wouldn't push that she is removed from the team, she seems to have removed herself. I would let a guidance counselor know the situation. Lets hope she has something good to do during the times she would normally be at practice.

Did you read the original post? She wasn't cut from the squad, she was cut from their competition dance piece. She was SUPPOSED to continue practicing with the team, but refused. She came to practice and stood there.

But since she is not participating and she didn't come to the past two practices (which equals enough demerits apparently) she deserves to be off the team.

If someone was on the basketball team, came to practice, but refused to do any drills or conditioning and then didn't show up to the past two practices, would you still expect them to be allowed on the team??

doremi29 · January 2011

ceceandme222:
I think it is important, which is why I think that giving her some alternate role would help her self esteem.

I completely agree with this, but if the girl has decided not to show up at this point and OP has tried to make contact, there's not much more she could do.

ceceandme222 · January 2011

MrsBalletStar05:
ceceandme222:
I have never been on a dance squad, but I briefly played lacrosse, which I was very bad at. I did it however to be with my friends and be involved with something. Instead of cutting me, I practiced with everyone, helped by keeping score at the games, and played occasionally when it wasn't really going to affect anything.
I think you are being really harsh on this girl. It is a school dance team, not a paid ballet. You could be a positive role model in her life even if she isn't letting you see that you are. Teenage girls are fickle like that.
And maybe her parents just suck. For someone with issues like hers, you would think they would be pro-active. Maybe that is part of her depression. I wouldn't push that she is removed from the team, she seems to have removed herself. I would let a guidance counselor know the situation. Lets hope she has something good to do during the times she would normally be at practice.

Did you read the original post? She wasn't cut from the squad, she was cut from their competition dance piece. She was SUPPOSED to continue practicing with the team, but refused. She came to practice and stood there.
But since she is not participating and she didn't come to the past two practices (which equals enough demerits apparently) she deserves to be off the team.
If someone was on the basketball team, came to practice, but refused to do any drills or conditioning and then didn't show up to the past two practices, would you still expect them to be allowed on the team??

The feeling that I got from the original post was that she was kind of fed up with this girl, and I feel like a different softer approach could have been used on her part. If it is a "team" with a "team" atmosphere, shouldn't each member be valued? If you know someone on your team is having a hard time, you would want to help build them back up I would think.

It doesn't really matter at this point though because this is more of a case of what ifs. I was just saying that maybe her home situation isn't favorable, and that really pursuing her and trying to help her would be good for her rather than e-mailing a parent who has already demonstrated a disinterest.

mkanderson85 · January 2011

ceceandme222:
MrsBalletStar05:
ceceandme222:

I have never been on a dance squad, but I briefly played lacrosse, which I was very bad at. I did it however to be with my friends and be involved with something. Instead of cutting me, I practiced with everyone, helped by keeping score at the games, and played occasionally when it wasn't really going to affect anything.

I think you are being really harsh on this girl. It is a school dance team, not a paid ballet. You could be a positive role model in her life even if she isn't letting you see that you are. Teenage girls are fickle like that.

And maybe her parents just suck. For someone with issues like hers, you would think they would be pro-active. Maybe that is part of her depression. I wouldn't push that she is removed from the team, she seems to have removed herself. I would let a guidance counselor know the situation. Lets hope she has something good to do during the times she would normally be at practice.

Did you read the original post? She wasn't cut from the squad, she was cut from their competition dance piece. She was SUPPOSED to continue practicing with the team, but refused. She came to practice and stood there.

But since she is not participating and she didn't come to the past two practices (which equals enough demerits apparently) she deserves to be off the team.

If someone was on the basketball team, came to practice, but refused to do any drills or conditioning and then didn't show up to the past two practices, would you still expect them to be allowed on the team??

The feeling that I got from the original post was that she was kind of fed up with this girl, and I feel like a different softer approach could have been used on her part. If it is a "team" with a "team" atmosphere, shouldn't each member be valued? If you know someone on your team is having a hard time, you would want to help build them back up I would think.

It doesn't really matter at this point though because this is more of a case of what ifs. I was just saying that maybe her home situation isn't favorable, and that really pursuing her and trying to help her would be good for her rather than e-mailing a parent who has already demonstrated a disinterest.

Every girl tries out for every routine. They know the drill. She didn't cut it. That wasn't the problematic part. It was the fact that she wasn't doing her part as an understudy.

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

How could she have been any "softer" in her approach? She didn't say anything harsh to her for over a week and encouraged her to get up and learn the dance. She didn't.

If someone refuses to do something, they refuse to do it and you can't do much about that! I'd be fed up too after that long. There's only so much coddling you can do for someone. You can't hold their hand forever.

Have you taught or coached a team of teens before?

ceceandme222 · January 2011

No, I have not but I feel like coaches play a large part in a student's success, and I think people who do this kind of work have a large opportunity to make a teen's life better.

I think we are all coming from different places here. I am not from a nice town originally, and where I live now there is a large movement of people trying to organize after school activities based on the fact that 6 teens murdered someone last month because they were "bored".

I see that this is something that the two of you take very seriously from a competitive sports standpoint, where as I am looking at it from the perspective of this may be one of her only good things she had going, and now that is gone too.

Having experience with younger kids in an under privileged area, I know that one on one relationships with them can make a difference in their lives. If this had been me, I would hope I would have a more personal relationship with the people on my team so that I could approach them and as them how they are doing if I notice a problem with their performance. However, I don't think I would be super concerned with our competitive standing other than what would be necessary to continue having the activity in the school, whereas this dance team seems to be concerned with winning. To each their own.

mkanderson85 · January 2011

ceceandme222:

No, I have not but I feel like coaches play a large part in a student's success, and I think people who do this kind of work have a large opportunity to make a teen's life better.

I think we are all coming from different places here. I am not from a nice town originally, and where I live now there is a large movement of people trying to organize after school activities based on the fact that 6 teens murdered someone last month because they were "bored".

I see that this is something that the two of you take very seriously from a competitive sports standpoint, where as I am looking at it from the perspective of this may be one of her only good things she had going, and now that is gone too.

Having experience with younger kids in an under privileged area, I know that one on one relationships with them can make a difference in their lives. If this had been me, I would hope I would have a more personal relationship with the people on my team so that I could approach them and as them how they are doing if I notice a problem with their performance. However, I don't think I would be super concerned with our competitive standing other than what would be necessary to continue having the activity in the school, whereas this dance team seems to be concerned with winning. To each their own.

You wouldnt be hired then, so you would never have to worry about such a situation. Our girls have fun, but they dance to win.

amykins1283 · January 2011

mkanderson85:
ceceandme222:

No, I have not but I feel like coaches play a large part in a student's success, and I think people who do this kind of work have a large opportunity to make a teen's life better.

I think we are all coming from different places here. I am not from a nice town originally, and where I live now there is a large movement of people trying to organize after school activities based on the fact that 6 teens murdered someone last month because they were "bored".

I see that this is something that the two of you take very seriously from a competitive sports standpoint, where as I am looking at it from the perspective of this may be one of her only good things she had going, and now that is gone too.

Having experience with younger kids in an under privileged area, I know that one on one relationships with them can make a difference in their lives. If this had been me, I would hope I would have a more personal relationship with the people on my team so that I could approach them and as them how they are doing if I notice a problem with their performance. However, I don't think I would be super concerned with our competitive standing other than what would be necessary to continue having the activity in the school, whereas this dance team seems to be concerned with winning. To each their own.

You wouldnt be hired then, so you would never have to worry about such a situation. Our girls have fun, but they dance to win.

This. It's nice to have the attitude of "everyone gets to participate because it makes them feel good" but it's called a competitive dance team for a reason. When you are competing you can't keep someone on the team just because it's a nice thing to do. It sounds like the girl has a lot of issues that she needs to see a professional for. Dance team is not going to make her life suddenly great, she needs professional help.

BurnNurse · January 2011

ceceandme222:
No, I have not but I feel like coaches play a large part in a student's success, and I think people who do this kind of work have a large opportunity to make a teen's life better.
I think we are all coming from different places here. I am not from a nice town originally, and where I live now there is a large movement of people trying to organize after school activities based on the fact that 6 teens murdered someone last month because they were "bored".
I see that this is something that the two of you take very seriously from a competitive sports standpoint, where as I am looking at it from the perspective of this may be one of her only good things she had going, and now that is gone too.
Having experience with younger kids in an under privileged area, I know that one on one relationships with them can make a difference in their lives. If this had been me, I would hope I would have a more personal relationship with the people on my team so that I could approach them and as them how they are doing if I notice a problem with their performance. However, I don't think I would be super concerned with our competitive standing other than what would be necessary to continue having the activity in the school, whereas this dance team seems to be concerned with winning. To each their own.

Did you just finish watching "Suspicious Minds?" I can practically hear "Gangsta's Paradise" playing in the background.

ceceandme222 · January 2011

I realize that, which is why I wrote that entire paragraph to demonstrate the point of view I was coming from. I also would not put myself in that type of situation, because clearly I do not have an interest in competitive sports of any type and if I were to work in a high school coaching would be my last choice. I have a bleeding heart, you have dance skills. I just hope that the guidance counselor can help this girl I feel bad for her and it seems like if this is a hard team to get on and she has decided to let that slip away, then she is having some major personal issues.

ceceandme222 · January 2011

Whoa there. I live in CT, not an inner city.

https://www.theday.com/article/20101130/NWS04/101139989

If that was happening in your community, would it not concern you?

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

It seems to me she should choose another activity to get involved in.

Seriously. A WEEK of NO participation. If she were my student, I would have kicked her out after the first day. It's not even about winning, it's about respect and for a student to come into practice and not participate? That's flat out disrespectful.

You can't put a kid out on the basketball court who just stood around at practice for a week and did nothing. What can you expect? They'd stand around on game day too!

And can you even IMAGINE a girl on your team in high school coming to practice and standing around for a week not doing anything? Don't you think your coach would have kicked her off your team too? Well?

If kids murdered someone because "they were bored" then the PARENTS should have gotten themselves involved and found a worthwhile activity for their children to participate in and made sure they were interested in it. You can't blame coaches not putting up with snot-nosed kids for the problems of the world. Seriously.

LaurelBee · January 2011

1st off- if she sucks as bad as you say, then she wouldn't have made the team in the 1st place. She obviously has talent, so she shouldn't have been picked out from the rest of the girls and cut from the competition squad.

2nd- kicking her off the competition squad is not motivating her to become more involved in the team or making her a better dancer. You separated her from the rest of the squad, pointed out that she is a sub-par dancer in front of her peers, and are now complaining that she's unmotivated and depressed. Of course she doesn't give a damn! She's a stand-in, just incase someone better than her gets hurt. You suceeded in making her feel like she's replacable and not good enough. (Although if she suffers from depression, she probably feels even worse than that. I know I would)

3rd-As coach, motivating your girls to be better dancers, working better in a team atmosphere, and learning from each other should be what you strive for first before going for the blue ribbon at competition.

kicking her off the comp squad= bad coaching, imo. This is just my two cents. And this is from a girl who has danced since I was 6 and competed on my high school's dance team.

LaurelBee · January 2011

mkanderson85:
ceceandme222:
MrsBalletStar05:
ceceandme222:

I have never been on a dance squad, but I briefly played lacrosse, which I was very bad at. I did it however to be with my friends and be involved with something. Instead of cutting me, I practiced with everyone, helped by keeping score at the games, and played occasionally when it wasn't really going to affect anything.

I think you are being really harsh on this girl. It is a school dance team, not a paid ballet. You could be a positive role model in her life even if she isn't letting you see that you are. Teenage girls are fickle like that.

And maybe her parents just suck. For someone with issues like hers, you would think they would be pro-active. Maybe that is part of her depression. I wouldn't push that she is removed from the team, she seems to have removed herself. I would let a guidance counselor know the situation. Lets hope she has something good to do during the times she would normally be at practice.

Did you read the original post? She wasn't cut from the squad, she was cut from their competition dance piece. She was SUPPOSED to continue practicing with the team, but refused. She came to practice and stood there.

But since she is not participating and she didn't come to the past two practices (which equals enough demerits apparently) she deserves to be off the team.

If someone was on the basketball team, came to practice, but refused to do any drills or conditioning and then didn't show up to the past two practices, would you still expect them to be allowed on the team??

The feeling that I got from the original post was that she was kind of fed up with this girl, and I feel like a different softer approach could have been used on her part. If it is a "team" with a "team" atmosphere, shouldn't each member be valued? If you know someone on your team is having a hard time, you would want to help build them back up I would think.

It doesn't really matter at this point though because this is more of a case of what ifs. I was just saying that maybe her home situation isn't favorable, and that really pursuing her and trying to help her would be good for her rather than e-mailing a parent who has already demonstrated a disinterest.

Every girl tries out for every routine. They know the drill. She didn't cut it. That wasn't the problematic part. It was the fact that she wasn't doing her part as an understudy.

I just read this. That changes things if she's not the only one told to sit out. How many other girls have been "benched" before?

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

No one in a million years would question the football coach who benches the starter who's stopped playing as well. The best players get to play in the game, right? Isn't that the rule? Why does it being dance team make it so different? It's the same concept! If one of the players get injured, another player jumps in - which is why it is important for the other team members to take part in practice.

marykaybride · January 2011

LaurelBee:

1st off- if she sucks as bad as you say, then she wouldn't have made the team in the 1st place. She obviously has talent, so she shouldn't have been picked out from the rest of the girls and cut from the competition squad.

2nd- kicking her off the competition squad is not motivating her to become more involved in the team or making her a better dancer. You separated her from the rest of the squad, pointed out that she is a sub-par dancer in front of her peers, and are now complaining that she's unmotivated and depressed. Of course she doesn't give a damn! She's a stand-in, just incase someone better than her gets hurt. You suceeded in making her feel like she's replacable and not good enough. (Although if she suffers from depression, she probably feels even worse than that. I know I would)

3rd-As coach, motivating your girls to be better dancers, working better in a team atmosphere, and learning from each other should be what you strive for first before going for the blue ribbon at competition.

kicking her off the comp squad= bad coaching, imo. This is just my two cents. And this is from a girl who has danced since I was 6 and competed on my high school's dance team.

Having tryouts for each performance is standard practice in high school dance teams. Some girls have skills in all dance areas, others have strengths only in certain genres of dance. The most fit girls for that particular performance are chosen. It's not "bad coaching" - it's the way things work in the dance world. If the girl needs an after school activity to boost her self esteem, she should try student council or girl scouts or yearbook club. A competitive team is what it is - and if you can't perform at the competitive level, you don't perform. This is not news to anybody except a couple of people here, apparently.

ceceandme222 · January 2011

marykaybride:
LaurelBee:

1st off- if she sucks as bad as you say, then she wouldn't have made the team in the 1st place. She obviously has talent, so she shouldn't have been picked out from the rest of the girls and cut from the competition squad.
2nd- kicking her off the competition squad is not motivating her to become more involved in the team or making her a better dancer. You separated her from the rest of the squad, pointed out that she is a sub-par dancer in front of her peers, and are now complaining that she's unmotivated and depressed. Of course she doesn't give a damn! She's a stand-in, just incase someone better than her gets hurt. You suceeded in making her feel like she's replacable and not good enough. (Although if she suffers from depression, she probably feels even worse than that. I know I would)
3rd-As coach, motivating your girls to be better dancers, working better in a team atmosphere, and learning from each other should be what you strive for first before going for the blue ribbon at competition.
kicking her off the comp squad= bad coaching, imo. This is just my two cents. And this is from a girl who has danced since I was 6 and competed on my high school's dance team.
Having tryouts for each performance is standard practice in high school dance teams. Some girls have skills in all dance areas, others have strengths only in certain genres of dance. The most fit girls for that particular performance are chosen. It's not "bad coaching" - it's the way things work in the dance world. If the girl needs an after school activity to boost her self esteem, she should try student council or girl scouts or yearbook club. A competitive team is what it is - and if you can't perform at the competitive level, you don't perform. This is not news to anybody except a couple of people here, apparently.

A competitive dance team to me is something new to me. I have honestly never seen one outside of movies.

Sometimes the parents don't do their jobs. Who then in the next in line? Educators. No, they shouldn't have to discipline or make someone come to practice, but sometimes just being available to kids can make a world of difference. Thats the reason educators are considered mandated reporters, because they can see things that are not being addressed by the parents, or that the parents themselves may be doing wrong. You don't need to jeopardize your competition in order to speak to someone and let them know you are there if they need to talk.

ceceandme222 · January 2011

MrsBalletStar05:
If kids murdered someone because "they were bored" then the PARENTS should have gotten themselves involved and found a worthwhile activity for their children to participate in and made sure they were interested in it. You can't blame coaches not putting up with snot-nosed kids for the problems of the world. Seriously.

Obviously they aren't being raised by any parents of the year. I was using this as an example of why even though someone isn't doing super well at dance that just going to an after school activity in itself and being involved is helpful for kids.

Did I blame her for the girl being depressed or these kids? No. I am just saying, maybe if they had a positive role model like a coach and an activity to participate in, this wouldn't have been how they chose to spend their free time.

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

ceceandme222:
MrsBalletStar05:
If kids murdered someone because "they were bored" then the PARENTS should have gotten themselves involved and found a worthwhile activity for their children to participate in and made sure they were interested in it. You can't blame coaches not putting up with snot-nosed kids for the problems of the world. Seriously.
Obviously they aren't being raised by any parents of the year. I was using this as an example of why even though someone isn't doing super well at dance that just going to an after school activity in itself and being involved is helpful for kids.
Did I blame her for the girl being depressed or these kids? No. I am just saying, maybe if they had a positive role model like a coach and an activity to participate in, this wouldn't have been how they chose to spend their free time.

I never accused you of blaming the OP specifically either, so we are in agreement with that. You did say, however that these kids need a positive role model in their life like a coach so they won't be out doing "these" things. Kids who are seriously depressed or to the point of committing murder NEED MENTAL/MEDICAL HELP that a coach cannot provide. Someone has tried to put this on me personally before. I teach dance. I will teach your kid to dance and I will teach them how to be part of a team. That is what I am trained to do. If they don't want to dance or be a part of the team then there is not much I can do for them. If the kid is depressed or I suspect any sort of medical problem, I can advise the parents take them to a doctor. I'm not a doctor or a trained counselor/therapist and neither are most instructors or coaches. Besides, if there is any "blame" or "cause" it's on the parents. It's up to the parents to be involved in a child's life, know what is going on with their child, get them involved in positive and APPROPRIATE activities. Obviously this was not an appropriate activity for this girl, otherwise she would have been acting differently at practice.

But this is an entirely different argument now.

You just stated that competitive dance is a new concept for you, so as we have determined, you obviously did not have a complete grasp of the situation the OP was going through.

spring_time · January 2011

I can't believe people are flaming the OP for cutting this girl from the team. She made the team, but was not performing up to the standards of the team. The entire team should not suffer for her inability to keep up. She was given an alternate role. The girl had the choice to continue participating, or not. She chose the latter. The OP tried to work with her, has spoken to parents, and involved the school social worker. She has done what she can for this girl, but she still has a competitive team to coach. The OP has an obligation to all the other members on her team who are showing up every day and working their tails off to win the competition.

Competition is part of life, and failure is a life lesson. Not everyone makes the team, and not everyone earns the trophy. I say this confidently as a person who has been cut from her fair share of competitive sports and theater/music programs. It sucks, but you learn from the experience and move on. Sometimes it leads to talent in other areas.

LaurelBee · January 2011

spring_time:

I can't believe people are flaming the OP for cutting this girl from the team. She made the team, but was not performing up to the standards of the team. The entire team should not suffer for her inability to keep up. She was given an alternate role. The girl had the choice to continue participating, or not. She chose the latter. The OP tried to work with her, has spoken to parents, and involved the school social worker. She has done what she can for this girl, but she still has a competitive team to coach. The OP has an obligation to all the other members on her team who are showing up every day and working their tails off to win the competition.

Competition is part of life, and failure is a life lesson. Not everyone makes the team, and not everyone earns the trophy. I say this confidently as a person who has been cut from her fair share of competitive sports and theater/music programs. It sucks, but you learn from the experience and move on. Sometimes it leads to talent in other areas.

Honestly, I agree with most of this. My problem is that she cut the girl because she wasn't "performing up to standards" but then insisted she participate in practices just in case someone else got hurt. That's ridiculous for the OP to expect her to learn and perform a routine up to the team's standards without actually performing in competition! Imo, the OP failed the girl- instead of taking her off the team, she could have insisted on an extra practice or have the team's captain work with her outside practice to get her up to par. I just feel like she could have done more to motivate her before cutting her. But I only know the details given, so I may be talking out of hand.

Also, comparing football and basketball to dancing is like comparing apples and oranges. They're both a sport- that's where the similarities end. In dance, you are given points for the performance dance steps, musicality, uniformity, etc. They don't take points off the score board if the refs dislike the team's colors, but you get points docked in dance for having a shoe lace untied. Dance is objective where other competative sports are based purely on talent vs talent alone (and sometimes luck.)

buddhagouda · January 2011

LaurelBee:
Honestly, I agree with most of this. My problem is that she cut the girl because she wasn't "performing up to standards" but then insisted she participate in practices just in case someone else got hurt. That's ridiculous for the OP to expect her to learn and perform a routine up to the team's standards without actually performing in competition!

It's absolutely not ridiculous. Any good theatre/dance/performance art company has understudies for every production. You don't cancel a show or drop out of a competition because your star actor/dancer/whatever gets the flu the day of the show. That's what understudies are for, and you bet your bottom dollar, they had better KNOW the routine they are stepping in for. I've been the understudy for many a stage production, and yeah, it sucks. That's what motivates you to work even harder the next time to get cast for real.

LaurelBee · January 2011

buddhagouda:
LaurelBee:

Honestly, I agree with most of this. My problem is that she cut the girl because she wasn't "performing up to standards" but then insisted she participate in practices just in case someone else got hurt. That's ridiculous for the OP to expect her to learn and perform a routine up to the team's standards without actually performing in competition!

It's absolutely not ridiculous. Any good theatre/dance/performance art company has understudies for every production. You don't cancel a show or drop out of a competition because your star actor/dancer/whatever gets the flu the day of the show. That's what understudies are for, and you bet your bottom dollar, they had better KNOW the routine they are stepping in for. I've been the understudy for many a stage production, and yeah, it sucks. That's what motivates you to work even harder the next time to get cast for real.

We're still talking about 2 differnt things. You were cast as an understudy- you didn't get the main part, then be demoted to understudy because someone was better than you. I'm not saying the girl absolutely deserved to be on the squad, but I think considering her depression, other steps could have been taken first. And the OP was complaining about her lack of motivation- I can absolutely see why she wasn't motivated anymore.

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

LaurelBee:
buddhagouda:
LaurelBee:

Honestly, I agree with most of this. My problem is that she cut the girl because she wasn't "performing up to standards" but then insisted she participate in practices just in case someone else got hurt. That's ridiculous for the OP to expect her to learn and perform a routine up to the team's standards without actually performing in competition!

It's absolutely not ridiculous. Any good theatre/dance/performance art company has understudies for every production. You don't cancel a show or drop out of a competition because your star actor/dancer/whatever gets the flu the day of the show. That's what understudies are for, and you bet your bottom dollar, they had better KNOW the routine they are stepping in for. I've been the understudy for many a stage production, and yeah, it sucks. That's what motivates you to work even harder the next time to get cast for real.

We're still talking about 2 differnt things. You were cast as an understudy- you didn't get the main part, then be demoted to understudy because someone was better than you. I'm not saying the girl absolutely deserved to be on the squad, but I think considering her depression, other steps could have been taken first. And the OP was complaining about her lack of motivation- I can absolutely see why she wasn't motivated anymore.

Yes, dance is objective and you earn/lose points differently than how you earn points in a basketball or football games. However, that's not what is being compared in this discussion. We are comparing team dynamics and what is highlighted happens ALL THE TIME on sports teams. Someone makes a team and is one of the starting players. Then they start slacking, stop performing as well, and one of the bench warmers who has been consistently working hard, shows a good attitude and has improved will replace the starting playing. A coach showcases it's best performers and takes out those who aren't performing as well. This happens in all sports! The girl didn't even (originally) get kicked off the team. She was just demoted to understudy for this particular dance...which essentially happens all the time in any team sport. No coach is going to put it's poorest player in the championship game.

buddhagouda · January 2011

LaurelBee:
We're still talking about 2 differnt things. You were cast as an understudy- you didn't get the main part, then be demoted to understudy because someone was better than you. I'm not saying the girl absolutely deserved to be on the squad, but I think considering her depression, other steps could have been taken first. And the OP was complaining about her lack of motivation- I can absolutely see why she wasn't motivated anymore.

Not in the example I gave, but it does happen.

I think some people just aren't understanding the difference between a competitive team for which one must audition/try out for and a community type sport or activity in which everyone is included.

LaurelBee · January 2011

buddhagouda:
LaurelBee:

We're still talking about 2 differnt things. You were cast as an understudy- you didn't get the main part, then be demoted to understudy because someone was better than you. I'm not saying the girl absolutely deserved to be on the squad, but I think considering her depression, other steps could have been taken first. And the OP was complaining about her lack of motivation- I can absolutely see why she wasn't motivated anymore.

Not in the example I gave, but it does happen.

I think some people just aren't understanding the difference between a competitive team for which one must audition/try out for and a community type sport or activity in which everyone is included.

She already auditioned for the team, made it, then got kicked off.

BurnNurse · January 2011

LaurelBee:
buddhagouda:
LaurelBee:

We're still talking about 2 differnt things. You were cast as an understudy- you didn't get the main part, then be demoted to understudy because someone was better than you. I'm not saying the girl absolutely deserved to be on the squad, but I think considering her depression, other steps could have been taken first. And the OP was complaining about her lack of motivation- I can absolutely see why she wasn't motivated anymore.
Not in the example I gave, but it does happen.
I think some people just aren't understanding the difference between a competitive team for which one must audition/try out for and a community type sport or activity in which everyone is included.
She already auditioned for the team, made it, then got kicked off.

The girl is getting kicked off the team for refusing to practice, and having a bad attitude.

She was taken out of the competition because she wasn't the strongest player, not kicked off the team.

buddhagouda · January 2011

LaurelBee:
buddhagouda:

I think some people just aren't understanding the difference between a competitive team for which one must audition/try out for and a community type sport or activity in which everyone is included.

She already auditioned for the team, made it, then got kicked off.

Yes. I understand that. My point is that making the team =/= outright guarantee that you will always be on the team. If you don't put in the work and are outplayed/performed by someone else on the team, they see the action, and you don't. The person that gives the team the best chance to win gets to play. As I said before, people are not understanding this aspect of competitive activities.

blissfully_caffeinated · January 2011

I think she just quit. At her age she probably lacks the maturity to tell you. Hopefully she'll talk to you about it. Otherwise I'd consider her lack of attendance her leaving the team.

MrsBalletStar05 · January 2011

buddhagouda:
LaurelBee:
buddhagouda:

I think some people just aren't understanding the difference between a competitive team for which one must audition/try out for and a community type sport or activity in which everyone is included.

She already auditioned for the team, made it, then got kicked off.
Yes. I understand that. My point is that making the team =/= outright guarantee that you will always be on the team. If you don't put in the work and are outplayed/performed by someone else on the team, they see the action, and you don't. The person that gives the team the best chance to win gets to play. As I said before, people are not understanding this aspect of competitive activities.

Exactly. If you make the tennis team and then just stand there in practice all week and don't do anything.....oh guess what, you're off the team. Duh? If you interview for a job, get the job and then don't perform the job - YOU GET FIRED. Why is this such a difficult concept?

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