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Toddlers: 12 - 24 Months
acia
member
I need the truth: Am I being unreasonable?
acia
member
DH is just finishing up his PhD and we'll be moving in a few months for his new job - to either Atlanta or Australia (Melbourne). Both offer good job opportunities, though Australia looks like it's the slight front runner, so DH is leaning towards going there. We'll be moving for 2-3 years and then hopefully coming back to Canada for a permanent faculty position.
Anyways, my preference would be Atlanta, only because I don't want DD to be so far from extended family. In Atlanta, we'd be able to visit family a few times a year, and MIL would come to visit every month, like she does now. But at the end of the day, of course I'll support DH if Australia is his choice. However, if we move to Australia, MIL says she'd make the trip once a year, and my parents wouldn't visit at all. DH says that's no big deal - we'd just travel back home more often. And I'd be fine with that if we didn't have a VERY high maintenance toddler who does NOT sleep on planes. Travelling is miserable with her, even just short car rides are a hassle. And just to be clear, with layovers, this would be a 27 HOUR trip - a 16 hour flight + 2 shorter flights + 2 hours of driving. This would be hellish even with an easygoing child.
So, I've told him that if we move to Australia, I only plan to travel back home once a year (probably at Christmas since it's a big thing in his family). He was thinking 3-4 times a year, but I honestly can't imagine it. Plus we'll likely have baby #2 while we're down there, so we'd be travelling with an infant and a toddler. He is upset that and says he feels like I'm giving him an ultimatum.
So tell me the truth - I can take it. Am I unreasonable to put my foot down about travelling back home so infrequently? Should I just suck it up? How often would you make the trip?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: I need the truth: Am I being unreasonable?
I think you are trying to plan something that doesn't need to be planned yet. Even if you do move down there..who's to say your daughter won't become accustomed to flying! You can always break the trip up and spend the night somewhere so you rDD isn't flipping out for 27 hours!
It seems unnecessary to be arguing over that IMO. So to answer your question I think you are being unreasonable. keep an open mind.
Why is Australia his first choice? Does it pay a significant amount more than the Atlanta position? Flying Australia to Canada is really expensive, I would notwant to pay that much 3 or 4 times a year. Unless the Australia position payed a lot more money.
No, I don't think you're being unreasonable. I've done that flight, and I can't imagine doing it multiple times a year, even without kids. With a toddler? Forget it.
That said, I think living in Australia would be an incredible experience, and I'd jump at the chance. I loved it there. But I wouldn't be flying back with the kids more than once a year, that's for sure.
I think you're being a better planner. Not only is is hard to travel that fat, that often, but it's also very costly and hard on small kids.
I think I'd push for Atlanta unless Australia has a TON more to offer for his job, that's a huge distance away...
I don't necessarily think you are being unreasonable. I understnd not wanting to put yourself in a situation with a screaming, unhappy toddler. But I also understand the need to see family as often as possible. Maybe by the time you decide to make a visit DD will be a better flyer? Who knows what difference a year, or even a couple months will make when it comes to travelling? If it were me, I would make the trip as often as possible. But I have a super close family. I'm sure my mom would want to come with us, lol. I guess I would say wait until the time comes for a visit and decide then how often you want to do it.
Good luck!
I agree with misty.
If you move down under, see how the first trip back goes and base your future traveling decisions on that.
Yes and No.
Sounds like an amazing opportunity to live in an amazing place. I agree with an earlier poster, i think you are prematurely worrying...I agree with you though on the once a year trip back to visit----but if you really think about it...with "skype" you can see relatives all the time.
Personally I would go for it---I loved australia my hubby and I spent a month there on our honeymoon. The people were so nice and it was so clean (I live in new york city) we plan to retire there.
Good Luck!
If you ask me I would say...you are being reasonable about ONCE a year! We are an expat family living in US and our families are in India. So, I only know too well what goes into making of a vacation! Let me start:
- Will you be OK if both your babies are of different citizenship? What would be the challenges when you move back to Canada for the baby born in Australia...I am not sure, I would do more research. How would this affect their lives as siblings when they grow older?
- Next, if you both are planning on working in Australia....remember you will not get SO MUCH vacation to travel around 4 times a year..that is crazy! If it is only one of you working, it makes sense for multiple trips with just LO and whoever has more time off...
- you will have to SAVE up every single hour of your vacation days to spend quality time with family when you make a trip. Which means no suck up on sick days, no taking extra day off for long weekends, so on. For us, when we travel back home, it takes a good 3-4 days to overcome jet lag and start socializing. So those days eat up into your vacation.
- The cost of traveling from US-India is A LOT. I would imagine the same with Australia and Qantas is not a cheap airline ...Travel times are so long...tiring and in general disrupting....
- Also, it depends on the kid..when they grow up, will they enjoy multiple trips..what would the kids personality be like...likes travelling or more home bound?
- And last but not the least....I would never trade close proximity to family in hind sight. Having them for support is a HUGE thing for me...I realized after living here more like an isolated life.
Hope this helps.
ETA: We did travel back home to India FOUR TIMES in a YEAR and I would NEVER do it again. In 2007, my sister got married in Feb, so we traveled back home. In April, my MIL passed away, in July my daddy had a heart attack and had surgery. In Oct, FIL was on death bed...so we travelled again. It was a nightmare in 2007 and we almost ran out of all our savings making emergency trips..paying up huge amounts and travelling business class to just get there....it is NOT easy.
Flying to and from Australia 3-4 times a year sounds crazy expensive. That's a lot of money for 3 people to fly (assuming if your daughter's not a good traveler that she would be an even worse lap child). Besides that, would he have that much time off work at a brand-new job to travel back and forth? I'd assume if it takes a day each way to travel back and forth, a day or so to overcome the time difference and then a few days to visit, you're talking about 1-2 week vacations which seems like a lot of time off.
I don't think you're being unreasonable. You're presenting pros and cons of the different choices. The pay and other benefits of going to Australia might outweigh the fact that it's easier to visit family from Atlanta. You're not saying that Australia is out, just that he needs to be realistic about what your lifestyle and relationships with family will be while you're there.
I would NOT travel from Australia to Canada and back 3-4 times a year.
No way. I don't think you are being unreasonable.
I've taken my child to Australia and, honestly, it wasn't all that bad. I had prepared for the worst and got the best. We had a few hiccups but we were prepared for them. I would do that trip twice a year, maybe 3 times but no more then that.
I think the experience of living in a foreign country is one of the best gifts you can give your child. And it would be great for you too. And its only for 2-3 years, not forever.
I too agree with Misty. I don't think that is a decision that needs to or should be made right now. I think he should understand that it is very likely you'll only be able to make one trip a year (due to the cost, hassle, etc) but I don't think I'd give him an ultimatum saying if you go you will only agree to travel back once a year. If you end up in Australia see how things go with the flight, see how the airline prices are, and then make your decision on a case by case (trip by trip) basis.
I also agree with Hizzo, if we were given the opportunity to live in Australia for a few years I'd jump at it.
This exactly.
It may be different in Canada, but in the US a child that is born outside of the US but has parents whom are both US citizens is still a US citizen. So the kids would not have different citizenship.
This won't be an issue at all. Firstly, Australia and Canada have Constitutional Monarchies with Queen E. Secondly, as long as the parents are Canadian, and were born on Canadian soil, any child born outside of Canada is also considered Canadian (after paperwork of course).
My son was born in Caifornia, but since his father his Canadian, born in ON, my son is also Canadian. He has dual citizenship. Now if we were to leave Canada my son's children would not be considered Canadian because he was not born on Canadian soil.
This
Oh, good to know. Wish India had that too..dual citizenship.
I can't say if you are being reasonable or unreasonable but I say go to Australia and love it! DH had a business trip there before DD was born and I went with him. Melbourne was cool, snorkling at the reef was amazing but OMG I LOVED Sidney! Even now I can think back to tons of places I would have brought DD - hiking, the parks, the harbor. She would have loved it!
The trip over there (from NYC) did suck, I won't lie, but it was worth it. But don;t let him kid himself, it is not a trip you can do every few months or so...Our Twin Baby + a Big Girl Blog
And with the delivery trifecra of one twin vaginal, one c-section with general anesthesia for twin B, Spencer and Sidney joined us at 35 weeks exactly on June 18.
Thanks for all your replies.
I agree Australia would be an amazing opportunity... If it were just DH and I, I'd be all over it. We love travelling and have been all over the world, but Australia is one of the places we have yet to visit.
And just to clarify, it's not that I'm giving him an ultimatum - I'm just saying that I can't foresee wanting to come back to Canada more than once a year, and I want him to understand how I feel before he makes his decision. Of course if DD becomes a better traveler or other factors change, I'd be willing make the trip more often (and he knows this - I just don't want him counting on it).
Oh, and I'm a SAHM so vacation time doesn't really factor in - and DH's position would be flexible enough to allow for lots of time off/working from elsewhere.
Cost wise, I think the only way it would be reasonable would be if the job agrees to pay for some travel expenses, which they likely will.... But we'll have to see (the official offers from both places will be sent to us in January).
I went to teacher's college in Australia for a year. I will tell you, the flight SUCKS. I was an adult and I was going stir crazy.
And not to mention it's crazy expensive to live there as well as fly back and forth. I never came home at all the year I was gone, just because it was a) too far to fly to come home for a week or two (you lose a day or two to time adjustment) and b) it was too expensive.
If I had my way, I'd do Atlanta. I'd love to live in Australia but it's soooooo far. It's hard, really hard, to be away on the other side of the world from your family for such an extended period of time.
"IF" DH and I could afford to travel back and forth from the UK to US as often as that, I'd take it! Even for the hassle. When I move back to the UK, I probably won't be able to travel back to the US so frequently and my parents aren't really able to fly, so the question of them visiting is out. We'd also be flying back and forth to Spain. (and hopefully occasionally a vacation in between) those are all just family visiting trips, and the US (my family) would be once a year, HOPEFULLY!
So, I guess I would say...slightly unreasonable...but if you think you really couldn't handle it, you know, that's just something that you and DH will have to discuss...GL
I have been to Australia twice. My mom's sister lives there (an hour south of Melbourne (small town called Wonthaggi). She married an Australian who came to Canada to teach in the late 60's. They have lived there since the mid 70's. The first time I went we had a broken up trip where we had a layover in Honolulu. It made it bearable to be able to get off the plane and walk around for awhile. I was a teen at the time.
My DH and I went back there for our honeymoon two years ago and spent another six weeks there. Last time we took a 16 hour direct flight from Vancouver to Sydney. And then like you said, you still need to hop on a domestic flight and do some driving after that. It was obviously manageable but not ideal.
I absolutely love Australia and would go back or move there in a heart beat if I could. Both DH and I would love to take our DD there someday soon.
That said, I would jump at the opportunity to take a job there but I wouldn't make a trip back and forth more than twice a year. I think it would be too hard.
My DH is finishing his PhD in a year plus, so I am in a similar situation. I'll be honest and ask how much vacation time he thinks he'll get as a post-doc (I assume you're moving for a post doc position). I can't imagine he'll have the kind of free time to travel across the world more than once a year, if even that much. We're in NYC right now, from NJ, and one of the front runners for DHs post-doc is in Berkeley, CA. We've already accepted that we won't be able to travel "home" very often if we're in CA due to the cost of traveling. Our situation will also be different because our move will be right when DD1 starts K, so our travel will also be limited by the school calendar (I will not pull children out of school for travel, even to see family). But, if you're moving that far for a post-doc that is one of the sacrifices you will make as a family. We are considering that because of the difference it will make in long-term career options, but it is a huge sacrifice.
So, you are not being unsupportive or giving an ultimatum, you are being realistic about the limits of his position and career. Good luck to you both with this decision! I know the thought of moving away is weighing heavily on both of our minds, but we also know that it's temporary and for significant long-term gain!
The crappy thing is, Canada recognizes he has dual but the US doesn't.
Heck, I'd just plain say no Australia because it sounds like it isn't best for your family. If it's only a "slight" frontrunner, then why uproot your family so far from relatives when there's an alternative? Seems silly to me.
The decision should be best for your whole family, not just your husband.
Crappy situation. I agree with PP that your daughter will likely become a better traveller as she gets older. Maybe NOW she's not a good traveller, but 2-3 years is a long time and preschoolers are easier to handle on flights than toddlers.
However, the very thought of 25+ hours on a plane at ALL makes my skin crawl, much less with kids. I know your DH doesn't want to feel like you are giving him an ultimatum, but he also needs to understand that there is no ultimatum to give. This is BOTH of your choice. You should be considering this together, weighing the pros and cons together, and ultimately decising together what's best for YOUR family. Just because you don't work out of the home, doesn't mean you don't get a say or that you aren't an equal partner in this marriage. This posts and previous posts of yours really irk me because it is so obvious that your DH doesn't value your opinion as equal to his
My DH is applying to PhD programs soon, and we may have to move, and he isn't applying anywhere that I wouldn't want to live. We have both our careers to think about, both our lives, our DS's well-being, etc. He doesn't get to just up and move our family across the world without any say from me. Much like when I am applying for jobs, I don't just get to take whatever I want regardless of what's best for my family.
Best of luck to the BOTH of you in making this decision.