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Hawaii Babies
thoughts- kinda re third party intervention
hi hi hi
this may be somewhat controversial.. but i thought i would post anyway 'cause i know the folks on this board are pretty open-minded and we can respectfully disagree with each other if it came to that.
there's been a couple stories here in ca that have been getting some media attention and it's been on my mind so i just wanted to see what other people thought.
of course, i'm oversimplifying the situations and i don't have all the facts, nor have i researched any of the issues further than what i've been hearing on the news.
1) a city (county? i forgot which one) has passed an ordinance outlawing plastic bags like at grocery stores and such. i *think* it goes on further to say that if you want a paper bag, there is a 5 cent charge.
i'm thinking- great! let's save the environment. but i don't get the paper bag 5 cent charge. particularly for low-income individuals who may not be able to afford even some change for the paper bags. i also love the reusable grocery bags that are available, but honestly, about half the time they are too small to cover all the groceries i buy. i'm thinking that many low-income individuals may not have the funds to buy reusable grocery bags, let alone a ton of them to hold all their stuff?
2) a mom has sued mcd's to cease selling happy meals because they target children and it's not healthy. i guess it's gaining popularity. and you know mcd's has a strong legal team.
i guess my reaction is basically, so what? the local news media interviewed some parents and they said something like "my child cries and wants a happy meal. so i have to buy it for them." maybe i'm too mean and strict, but i find it the parents' responsibillity to say "No" to their child and follow through with it. you don't "have" to buy it for them.
when i was younger, my parents hardly ever allowed me to have a happy meal even when i cried and wanted and pouted for one. having a happy meal was a special treat, and i don't think i have lingering issues by them denying me a happy meal.
i actually think giving your child EVERYTHING and saying yes to everything is irresponsible and is more detrimental in the future because there aren't any boundaries. and then, the issue becomes, where do you draw the line? and if parents can't say no to their kids, is that mcd's fault? i mean, sure, if they are "targeting kids" they may have some responsibility, but ultimately, shouldn't the parents have the final say?
what do you guys think?
D started out as a LUCKY CHARM but ended up being our LOVEBUG 
hawaii 10.2008 plan ;P married bio ???
hawaii 10.2008 plan ;P married bio ???
This discussion has been closed.
Re: thoughts- kinda re third party intervention
1) Plastic bags are slowly being phased out in Australia, so this is an interesting topic to me. I believe they were banned in Ireland years ago? I could be wrong.
Aldi doesn't use them at all - if you don't bring reusable bags, you have to put your groceries in your trunk loose.
A few other major stores like Target have taken a halfway step: they offer compostable plastic bags for 5-10 cents (depending on the bag size) or reusable bags for $1.
At grocery stores, if you have 5 items or less, they don't give you a plastic bag unless you specifically request one. (Paper bags aren't used in grocery stores here so I can't address that.)
As far as low income individuals go, I'm not sure. There was a minor grumbling in the community when the new bags at some stores were introduced, but as far as I know it hasn't thus far been an economic issue.
2) I agree with you - this is ultimately parental responsibility. Is it obnoxious and maybe even a little unethical that McD's targets kids? Absolutely. But it's not their job to parent children, or to select what food they eat.
Like you, when I was growing up, we practically never had Happy Meals, or any other fast food for that matter. We could whine and scream until we were blue in the face but that was my mother's rule (and I don't think any of us ever did whine and scream because we knew it was already a foregone conclusion lol). It's the role of the parent to teach their children that junk food is a "sometimes" food, not an "all the time whenever you want it" food.
Obviously targeting your marketing to children makes it harder on the parents, and there is a lot of research and development that goes into making these ads as seductive as possible. But ultimately it's not their fault that YOU buy YOUR child a Happy Meal - we have to have some personal responsibility.
When I was small, cigarette companies were still allowed to advertise pretty widely. Remember the furor about Joe Camel being appealing to children? He never was to me. And that's because my mother always told me just how bad cigarettes are. I never once wanted to smoke because Joe Camel did, even if he was a fun cartoon character. I know it's not quite the same as Ronald McDonald, but you understand what I'm saying?
good topics!
I will say I really try to be eco-friendly. I would by no means say I am perfect, but I do try to do my part & I think using the reusable bags are a super easy & effective way to do "your" part. I am not sure it should be forced but sometimes I think Americans have to be pushed hard to change. Lisa mentioned in Australia they are loosing the plastic bags, my friend just moved back from Germany & she said there were no plastic bags there. I don't know about everywhere else, but those are two places that are making the change. I recently saw that SunChips were going to stop selling their compostable bags in the US b/c Americans complained the new bags were too loud! Potato chips bag that is too loud? How is that even possible?? But what really bugged me about it, was that they would still sell them in Canada. Does sound some how seem louder a wee bit south? I mean come on, the Canadians can take the noise but it is just too much for Americans to handle?
I have a ton of canvas bags & I have purchased many of them, but many of them were free. Sometimes grocery stores run promotions and give them away, I have been to events that give them away, some of the stores in the mall use them (some Mardi Gras parades throw them
) so I think there is always a way to get bags for free & at least here, all of the stores take $.05 or $.10 off for using your own bag. So even if you did buy a reusable target bag for $1 if you use it 10x, it paid for itself.
As for McDs, I do think it is up to the parents. I think if you always bring the kids to mcd's, they are always going to want it. I agree with Lisa that Joe Cool never made me want to smoke. He was a cute cartoon and all, but it didn't make me want to smoke. But I was told that smoking was bad so I just never really was interested. But with all of that said, I do think it is pretty shameless to advertise to kids, but no more than putting the junk food at kid's eye level in the grocery stores.
This is interesting to me - what is the bag material like? The compostable bags they have here are a little stretchy and very soft and satiny feeling - it reminds me of thick latex glove material. They make very little sound, so I'm assuming the chip bags must be different? But still, that's RIDICULOUS - especially since potato chip bags make a ton of noise anyway lol!
re mcd's. now I'm thinking the suit may have been forcing mcd's to stop marketing happy meals on tv, radio, and even in their stores. Which I still don't get. I didn't think about the grocery stores and junk food placement.
I heard about the sun chips thing! How loud could the bags be! And chips are loud anyway! hahaha I told MH about the sun chips tonight & he laughed. How does one figure that out? He was thinking maybe someone was hiding, opened a bag of sun chips, and then was discovered. Hahaha
hawaii 10.2008 plan ;P married bio ???
I like the idea that the noisy bag totally blew someone's cover!
Here is SunChips' statement: (apparently some of the smaller bags will remain the compostable kind but the big one will go back to the old bags)
https://www.sunchips.com/healthier_planet.shtml
here's a snippet:
Why are we making the change? - While there was a huge amount of enthusiasm surrounding the launch of our compostable SunChips? bag, we've also received feedback regarding how the new packaging has affected the consumer experience, including its noise.
and Lisa - I haven't felt an open bag but from the outside it just kind of feels a little thinner, but maybe more rigid if that makes sense.
I haven't read all the replies, but I wanted to input that Washington DC has done what you are saying - charging 5 cents/bag (although I'm not sure if that's paper or plastic). I see most people around this area (northern VA) carrying their own reusable bags. There may be some data from that area on low-income individuals?
I don't agree with suing for stuff like that. I think we should all have choices and if you choose to buy that, then you know what you're getting into. I never got them as a kid b/c my parents couldn't afford it. I dunno if I ever cried for one, but I can tell you if I did that my mom would NEVER give into that!
Great topics.
I support charging for plastic bags. In Colorado, which I consider a somewhat green-minded state, I still see the majority of people using plastic. Even at places like Target where you get credit for bringing your own bag. We need more dramatic measures to get people to make the switch.
I also have pretty strong opinions on the McD issue. I agree that ultimately it's the parents' responsibility to make good choices for their kids. But, I also think that childhood obesity is such a huge issue in the US that coorporations need to take a careful look at their policy when it comes to targeting kids.
When I was a resident, I did a few rotations at a children's hospital. In one weekend, I was involved in 3 cholecystectomies on kids under the age of 8, all obese. The ped surgeon I was working with said that when he was training (and he wasn't old), gall bladder disease was exclusive to adults. Now, he says it's becoming more like appendicitis due to the obesity epidemic. I don't think McD is responsible for the epidemic. In fact, they seem to have more "healthy" options than a lot of fast food chains. But, I"m all for anything that highlights the issue in the media. Some kids don't have a chance--and I think it's the poorest kids that have it the toughest.
:::Steps off soapbox:::
{planning bio} {married bio} {baby blog}
You don't get plastic bags in China, Taiwan, or Thailand either (as of 5+ years ago when I last visited). I really don't see why Americans feel so entitled to not having to endure such "hardships". The economic argument against charging for bags doesn't hold water for me. That's a solvable problem. First off, there are already a zillion plastic bags out there - let's reuse them. I believe you can get them from food banks here (and if not, you should be able to!). I'm sure tons of other people like me would love a way to pass on the collection of bags I've amassed before I started using reusable ones. etc.
This is so true. The cheapest calories are the worst for you. I recently stepped into a fast food restaurant for the first time in years, while we were on a short road trip and needed a bathroom break. I was *shocked* at how large the 99 cent menu was. And how cheap everything on the menu was, period. You could easily feed a family of 4 for under $10 - under $5 if you didn't eat as much.
Same is true at the grocery store - fresh produce, fruits, meat, ...all so much more expensive per calorie than the junk.
Yup, I think they charge an extra X cents for a bag (when I went there 2 years ago), but converted to USD, it's like 1 cent or something really minimal. We actually always ended up getting a bag because we were on vacation and we didn't think of bringing reusable bags to carry stuff that we bought, but we do try to reuse them whenever we could after that.
I think instead of charging extra 5 cents for a bag, maybe they should deduct 5 cents for not using a bag? I think Target does something along the lines of this already? I guess I generally lean towards awarding ppl for doing the right thing (being environmentally-friendly, in this case) vs "punishing" them when they might've just accidentally forgot their reusable bag at home (which happens to me ALL the time).
As for suing McD's, I don't agree with it. But actually, I don't ever remember McD's as a "treat" when I was young. We just had it whenever it was convenient, but it wasn't like a weekly thing or anything like that. And by high school, I hated McD's and didn't want anything to do with it. Now sometimes, I have the occasional chicken nuggets when I'm craving it (I remember I craved it when I was able to finally eat when I was pg) but that's like < 3 times a year. Same thing with soda. My parents never limited it for us so it was never really considered a treat either and I haven't drank soda since middle school because I just don't really like it. To this day, I don't drink soda. So part of me is thinking, maybe it's better to not deprive kids of it too much so it doesn't backfire and they end up going hog wild over it. Like going out/partying...my parents DID deprive me of that, and guess what was the first thing I did when I went to college?
Ha this is funny because my mom DID limit our soda, and now I don't like it. I just never developed a taste for it. Ben drinks a lot of Coke Zero so I'll have the occasional glass of that, but I never buy it for myself.
On other hand, parties of any sort were also banned and I made up for that pretty fast after leaving home.
Interesting topic
I think the .05 upcharge for bags might be an attempt at being a deterent to people using them.
As far as McD's goes. Ultimately it is the parents responsibility to say yes or no. However, think about how much advertising is in your face every day promoting McD's and other unhealthy options vs. how much info is out there on how to eat healthy. I bet if someone did a survey, we'd have much more exposure to the bad stuff than good. Unfortunate yes, but reality.
On top of that, a large percentage of our population (which includes parents) are already obese, so if the parents are obese, what chance does the kid have to have healthy eating habits?
If there was as much advertising on healthy eating as there is on fast food, I would say, no, it's wrong to sue. But that's just reality.
Cerclage placed @ 21w6d due to CI (IC)
i never had soda either! hahah and i don't like it to this day too!
i love hearing all these replies
hawaii 10.2008 plan ;P married bio ???
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats