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Hawaii Babies
breastfeeding - my story (VERY long)
I can't believe that my baby (not ready to call her a toddler yet!) is
now 1 year old!! I especially can't believe that I have EBF her up until this
point. Before she was born, I wondered whether I would BF beyond 1 year or not....after I had her and actually started BFing, well...let's just say I
didn't think I would even make it to 1 month....so the fact that I am
here now at 1 year (almost 13 months now) is a big deal for me!!! 
this is a very long post....and really geared more towards the
moms-to-be that plan to BF or the moms that are just starting to BF more
than anyone else. sandra's post below about her struggles also prompted me to finally post this...
i just want to preface this by saying that i'm not trying to pass judgment on those who FF at all. and this post is
not intended as a vent or a sob story, as i am not trying to get a lot
of sympathy from everyone or praise for sticking it out...rather it's
intended to help those who plan to BF, so that you guys can learn from
my mistakes and maybe get a little encouragement if you happen to run
into some problems as well.
let me start by saying that i never knew that BF'ing would be SO hard.
i guess for some mothers, it's pretty easy and they don't run into any
problems, but i think the vast majority of mothers do struggle a bit at
the beginning. i thought it would be easy and "natural" b/c that's what
breasts are for, right? i didn't think i needed to read any books
or take any classes. of course i knew that not everyone had it easy,
otherwise there wouldn't be lactation consultants (LCs)... but i thought
that LCs were there just for the rare cases of women who had
babies that just didn't "follow the textbook" so to speak.
consequently, i made no attempt to prepare myself for BFing before
little A arrived. DH and I had decided that I was going to BF
exclusively, but that was the extent of our "preparation." i did not
take any classes, nor did i do any reading, online or in books, about
BFing. it seems that most of the women on this board are already a bit
more prepared than i was, and i think that's great.
since i didn't read up on BFing beforehand, i didn't know that there
was a specific way or technique for babies to latch onto the breast (kind of stupid of me, huh?).
whenever i heard other moms mentioning that they had latching issues, i
just thought it was due to the baby. i thought babies were born knowing
how to BF, kind of like a reflex....and the ones that had latching
issues just didn't latch right away. i didn't know that latching
requires the efforts of both mom and baby...and takes time to learn. I didn't know that babies have a natural suck reflex but need to learn how to latch
so even though i thought BFing would be a breeze, i thought i was
being so proactive by asking for a LC as soon as A was born.
unfortunately she was born in the evening and the LCs had already gone
home for the day so it was not until the next morning that i got to see
one (and I didn't realize that I could have just asked a nurse for
help). i was able to attempt BFing shortly after A was born even though
I had a c-section. we did some skin to skin and then i put her to my
breast. she acted like she was starving and suckled like she was born
to BF, but little did i know that she was not properly latched while
doing so. if you consider the fact that she was born at 5:42pm and that
babies BF every 1-2 hrs initially, that means that i "breast fed" her
nearly 10 times - improperly - before i was able to see the LC the next
day. unfortunately, by then, a lot of damage had already been done. my
nipples were red, sore, and starting to crack. i did not know what to
expect from the BFing experience so I just went w/the flow and just
dealt with it... i thought it was b/c she was suckling so hard.
part of our problem was that her mouth was so tiny and she was
sooooo hungry that she would clamp down the moment she felt my nipple
brush up against her lip. so instead of getting a good mouthful, and
therefore a good latch, she'd just clamp down and suck on the tip of my
nipples. i felt like we were playing the game "operation"....try to get
the nipple into her mouth w/o brushing up against any part of her
mouth, lest she clamp down and instead of a buzzing sound like w/the
game, you'd hear me scream "ow!" instead 
even the
LC, when helping me, had to make multiple attempts w/her before getting a
good latch for us. still, it frustrated me to no end that they would be
able to give it a few tries and then get a good latch...and when i was
by myself and trying to do it, i rarely if ever got a good latch. and
then it hurt, sooooo bad. what made it really hard was the fact that
they tell you "you'll know when you have a good latch because it won't
hurt"....but at the time I didn't really know that for most women, it does
hurt, even if you have a good latch, so I was really sad/frustrated
w/myself since the damage was already done and i was sore/cracked from
the first night of BFing, so I thought I had made the worst mistake in
the world by letting my nipples get damaged like that to where it was
nearly impossible for me to tell if she had a good latch or if she was
doing further damage to my nipples.
it also took a very long time for my milk to come in b/c i had a
very stressful labor followed by a c-section. stress is known to delay
milk coming in and then i have heard it can take an extra 24-48 hours
for your milk to come in if you have a c-section. so, to help stimulate
my milk coming in, the LC let me use the hospital pump and i would pump
for 15 min after each and every nursing session. it got to the point
where A simply wasn't getting enough colostrum to satisfy her hunger
that she was constantly wailing whenever she wasn't sleeping. she was
so frantic every time she got near the breast that it made it even
harder to get her to latch properly. the LCs showed me how to hand
express the colostrum from my breasts so i could feed it to A with a
syringe in hopes of calming her down a little bit before each nursing
session so that we could get a good latch w/her. i felt so bad for her
b/c she was soooo hungry and she was not getting any milk. when i was
hand expressing the colostrum, i would collect it in a 1mL syringe, drop
by drop. (for frame of reference, 1/8 tsp = 0.625mL) sometimes she would only get 0.1-0.2mL of colostrum from all
my hand expressing but it was all i could give her 
nothing is worse
than hearing your baby cry b/c she is hungry and you don't have enough
(or in my case, any) milk for her
we knew that it is normal for babies to lose weight after they are
born...that they are born with extra stores and lose a lot of water
weight while your milk is coming in.... and she was still having plenty
of wet diapers, so we didn't worry too much about supplementing her. i
don't intend to make those who FF feel bad, but it was a personal
decision we made not to supplement her w/formula at all, unless we absolutely had to
and this was very important to the both of us. normally, the pedi's are
ok with babies losing up to 10% of their birth weight before they start
putting weight back on... when A checked out of the hospital she had
lost 11% and the hospital pedi (not our regular pedi) tried to get us to
supplement but we politely told him that we would hold off, hoping my
milk would come in soon. (she was having plenty of wet and dirty diapers the entire time.) so, we went home and i continued to try to get
her to latch properly while waiting for my milk to come in. the first
evening we were home (about 18 hrs after her last weight check at the
hospital) we were sitting on the couch and i was trying to BF her. we
had undressed her to give her some skin to skin contact to try to calm
her down (she was still screaming and wimpering from hunger whenever she
was awake at that point) and at one point we turned her around and i
could see her back.... i could see that she was a lot thinner than when
she was first born, and then i noticed that her spine was protruding
from her back quite prominently. when i saw this, i just broke out in
tears b/c i could not handle it anymore. even though we were doing
everything we could, I was 5 (almost 6) days post partum and my milk
still had not come in yet and the colostrum was just not enough for her.
i felt like i was starving my baby and i just broke down in tears. we
went and weighed her (on my kitchen scale LOL) to see where she was at
and she was 6 lbs 5 oz (birth weight was 7 lbs 4 oz) - she had dropped
13%. it's not very common for babies to drop that much weight in their
first week of life b/c most parents will supplement before then and it
was at that point that we were faced with waiting to see when my milk
would come in (we knew it would be soon b/c i was starting to express
some "transitional milk" but we still didn't know if it would be in 1
day, 2 days, or longer), or supplementing with formula. we were so torn
b/c we really wanted to exclusively BF her but at the same time we did
not want her to lose so much weight to the point where she would get
sick. it was at this point that the idea came to both of us that we
could potentially supplement her w/donated breast milk instead of
formula. so, i turned to a trusted friend who was BFing a baby a few
months older than A. it probably came across as an odd request, and I
know some people will probably read this and think it's totally weird or
gross, as i'm sure most people would just supplement with formula, but
it was really important to us that she be EBF. DH was FF and his
sister was BF for 3 months and then FF ... they both have respiratory
problems (allergies, asthma) but DH has it way worse than she
does... he constantly has issues w/his allergies..growing up he had
pneumonia several times etc so this was a big part of why we wanted to
EBF....when babies are just born, their intestinal tract is very
different than an older baby's GI tract...so when you introduce
formula...it's a foreign protein (since it's made from cow's milk) that
the body knows is foreign so there is an irreversible change in the
intestinal lining that occurs once you introduce formula that triggers
an immune response that is thought to cause the predisposition to
allergies later in life. so, we got a few ounces of breastmilk from my
friend and fed that to A. you should have seen her take that bottle!!
poor thing, i felt so bad b/c i could tell how hungry she was by how
fast she scarfed it down but i was so glad to see that she was finally
getting some nutrition. that seemed to help quite a bit b/c after she
had something in her, she was much calmer and i was able to work on
really getting her to latch properly.
then by the end of the next day (day 6), my milk came in!! i wasn't
sure if i would know when it did, but i was so engorged you bet i knew
it! LOL i was in disbelief at how much my boobs ballooned after my boobs
came in...i went up 2 more cup sizes in addition to the 2 cup sizes i
had already gone up in the 1st tri (so a total of 4 cup sizes larger
than pre-PG!). well, after my milk came in i thought it would be smooth
sailing right? of course not! i still had so much damage to my nipples
that i had a hard time telling when little A had a good latch and when
she didn't. i would try to check and see if she was latched properly
but her mouth was so tiny that often i'd dislodge her latch when pushing
my boob to the side a bit to see if her lips were flanged. it got to
the point where BFing hurt SO much that i would sometimes cry during
nursing sessions....i would cringe just thinking about the next time i
would have to nurse her and the anticipation of nursing her again made
me so anxious. i used lots of lots of lanolin but i think there was so
much damage that no amount of lanolin was going to help. what i finally
had to do was just take a break from BFing on one boob for 24 hrs and
BF exclusively on one side while the other side healed. i would pump on
the side i wasn't BFing on and stored it in the freezer. the LC said
that it would take about a week for my nipples to heal if I continued
BFing (the constant irritation that was occuring to them while BFing
slows down the healing process) but I couldn't see waiting that long for
them to heal. the pumping seemed to do the trick and i felt SO much
better after my nipples had healed. from there out i was better able
to judge when we had a good latch or not. unfortunately, it still took
miss A a while to figure things out b/c she would often still have a
very shallow latch and i'd be torn as to whether i should keep her there
until done, or attempt to pull her off and re-latch and potentially end
up with more damage.
then at 2 weeks post partum, on the eve of thanksgiving, i woke up
in the middle of night to feed her and, as was typical for that stage, i
was pretty engorged (i got fairly full between each feeding those first
few weeks, even if it had only been 2 hrs). i nursed her and got her
back to sleep but i noticed that my right breast was still pretty sore,
as if she hadn't even nursed. it was pretty painful so i did a little
research on kellymom.com
and figured out that i had a clogged duct. so i went and applied some
warm compresses and then proceeded to pump as much as i could. that
seemed to help but i was still in a lot of pain. that night i was
pretty cold, even under our down comforter...it had just started to get
really cold outside and we hadn't turned on the heat in the house, so i
figured it was just due to the colder weather. it was thanksgiving
morning and while everyone was gathering around, having their morning
coffee and chatting, i felt so weak and tired. i excused myself from
the room and went upstairs to lay down in bed. i was so exhausted and
thought it was just dealing w/a newborn that was catching up w/me, but
then i realized that i had muscle aches....and that i wasn't just cold,
but that i had the chills. i felt like i had the flu and had been hit
by a ton of bricks!! DH came to check on me and i told him what was
going on...he took my temp and it was 101.3 - we then looked at my
breast that had the clogged duct and noticed red streaks on it. again,
we referred to kellymom.com and realized that i had mastitis. i had to page the ob (since it was thanksgiving) and he called in a prescription of antibiotics to the pharmacy for me. it was about 24 hours before i even started to feel slightly better
i have to say that those first few weeks were SO hard. when i was
in so much pain, it was so tempting to just give up. but i was
determined to make it work. i had heard from many others that if you can
stick it out a few weeks, the rest is easy....so i was going to at
least give it a month before deciding. as hard as it was to endure all
of that, sure enough, right around 4 weeks A started latching well with
every try and i was a much happier mama
of course it wasn't "happily ever after" after that, even. shortly
after that, i started noticing these sharps pains in my breast when i
was feeding her and in between nursing as well. i looked it up online
and found out that could be from thrush. so i checked her tongue and
sure enough she had white spots on her tongue! given that i had been on
antibiotics for the mastitis, i was certain that's what we had. so, we
took her to the pedi and she confirmed it was thrush. she prescribed
meds for miss A and my ob prescribed meds for me.
we battled with the thrush for weeks and weeks before we were able
to get rid of it! i think it was at least 8 wks before it was all gone.
and, while treating myself for the thrush, i got mastitis AGAIN!!! i am
sure it was my fault, b/c i was talking to someone and i said "i've had
every problem known to afflict BFing mothers...only thing i haven't had
yet is thrush AND mastitis at the same time, or an abscess in my
breast." and sure enough a few days after saying that i got mastitis
again only this time i knew exactly what the symptoms were and went
and took my temp right away and then promptly called my ob for a
prescription.
to get rid of the thrush i also started taking probiotics. for miss A
we had to switch from nystatin to fluconazole and poor thing, she was
on daily oral meds for the few first months of her life i think it
took over 8 weeks to get rid of the thrush! i almost resorted to using
the gentian violet but since her professional photos were coming up i
didn't want a stained mouth so i waited and by the time we got the
photos taken we had gotten rid of the thrush.
once we finally got rid of the thrush things were better and i think we've had pretty smooth sailing ever since.
oh, i forgot i did have over supply issues too (though this problem was minor in comparison to everything else). i was so concerned
about my supply in the beginning that i overpumped even after she was
getting plenty of milk and that created an oversupply. i realized this
once she seemed to start choking/gag during my letdown or she'd pull off
the breast and milk would be spraying everywhere!! so, ever since then i
would nurse her in the side lying position and i would only nurse on
one side at a time. that seemed to help and i noticed she would choke
less on my milk. it wasn't until she was about 10 months old that i
started nursing on both sides during each session again...that was when i
started to notice that i was pumping less while at work so i was
concerned about my supply dropping. it may have just been normal due to her
being on solids, but just in case that is what i still do.
so...as you can see...we've had (almost) every issue... poor latch,
cracked/bleeding nipples, mastitis, clogged ducts, thrush, oversupply,
etc. but i am so happy that i made the commitment to do this. it is so
easy to just feed her whenever i need to instead of having to prepare a
bottle. when we are out i can just use a nursing cover, or run to the
car and nurse her instead of having to carry a bottle w/us. pumping is
definitely a huge pain in the neck and that part sucks :P but at least i
only work part time so i don't have to do it that often. i should also note that even after the first two months i still didn't find it that easy to keep going. i still struggled with feeling like a cow, like i didn't have the freedom to do things w/o having to worry about nursing her or pumping etc but i just made short term goals along the way... after i got over the 4-6 week hurdle at the beginning i made my next goal 6 months... i thought that w/the introduction of solids at 6 months it would get easier b/c she'd nurse less but she was still nursing just at much...so once i got to 6 months my next goal became 8 months...and then 10 months...and then finally my goal became 1 year.... when she got her teeth at 10 months and started biting me (esp when she drew blood one time!!), i really wasn't sure how much longer i'd be able to continue BFing but luckily i was able to get her to stop doing that more or less. she still occasionally tries to bite me but it's not bad. really by 10 months i was expecting her to nurse less but she was still nursing 7-8 times per day even at 11 months... then out of nowhere, right around 12 months she started to refuse the breast every now and then ...she still nurses 5-7 times per day now but i think she is very gradually weaning. there are some nights she does not want to nurse before bed and it makes me sad i always thought that would be one of the last sessions to go but it seems to be one of the first
i emailed my story to a friend who recently gave birth and was having
some problems with BFing and she said that my story helped to motivate
her to stick with it and now she is so glad that she did.
like many of us, she was literally in tears every day in the beginning
due to problems with latching (and i know those post partum hormones don't help at all!). i'm glad that i was able to help her by
sharing my experience w/her and i hope that someone else on this board
is able to learn something or be inspired by my story too.
*ETA: inamra's post below also reminded me that I did also get de quervain's tenosynovitis too. it's the most common hand problem seen in BFing mothers according to the hand specialist i've been to (i went to see him for another problem). in my case it was from trying to position her head for a good latch repeatedly, and i found that it did eventually go away but like inamra, it was mostly better just from me stopping that repetitive motion of trying to position her head. once we switched to the side lying position, it was so much better! that is the main way we nurse even to this today (unless we are out) but it's definitely not a position that i would have been able to do until she started learning how to self latch.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: breastfeeding - my story (VERY long)
I read your entire story and I'm hoping that I will be able to EBF as long as you have with miss A! I hear you on a lot of things and I also went through several of the same things!
We also had poor latch with soreness/cracking and I also had a LC help out but even with the best latch we could get, it still just got more and more blistered (I would look down and go "OMG is that my nipple?!?"). I ended up bleeding over all his lips when he nursed so I had to take 1-2 days off completely for it to heal (and walk around shirt/bra-less 24/7) because the lanolin and rubbing milk on it wasn't enough to heal it.
We had to go to the pedi the day after we were discharged because he had borderline jaundice. That's when we found out that he lost 13% of his birth weight already at 4 days old!! And he was so dehydrated that his face was peeling and his lips were cracking. We went on formula right away (in the office). I sobbed on the way home from the pedi office. I just had no idea that he was that starving and that dehydrated. My mistake was letting him go for 4hrs without nursing while in the hospital because he was sleeping. And our hospital was transitioning to letting the baby stay in our room (instead of nursery) so we opted for that option and no one told me that I should be nursing more (1-2hrs, not 4!) even after checking our feeding/changing log so I had thought everything was fine, but it wasn't! We supplemented for about 2 weeks. I worried about nipple confusion and whether I'd be able to EBF after that, but it worked out and I was really thankful that he was willing to nurse after my milk finally came in and we slowly weaned him off the bottle and transitioned to EBF.
I also had clogged ducts and did the warm compress, massage, and tried to empty the side with the painful lump (at first, I didn't know what it was and thought I was getting a tumor...lol).
I also had carpal tunnel that came from holding him up nursing all the time. I ended up wearing a brace and getting a nursing pillow. But I started to nurse in the side lying position because of CTS.
I *loved* side nursing lying in bed and for me, that might've been one of the most important things for me to finally EBF with the CTS--I attended a BF class in the hospital and they spoke of the different hold positions but they didn't talk about the side lying nursing position at all. I ended up trying it because that's how my mom BFed me and I loved how I could rest while he was nursing. That's still the only way we nurse now, except when we're out.
ETA: Crap, that was long too =P
i think a lot of us go through the same things but for some reason you don't hear about it all the time...that coupled w/the hormones and all the anxieties of being a new mom make it really hard! you've already made it 6 months so i'm sure you can make it a year
oh and i totally agree about the side lying nursing position! it made things so much easier for us both and also allowed me to snooze a lot during those early days when i was sleep deprived! she'd sleep in her crib at night but in the early morning after DH would leave for work i'd bring her into the bed w/me to nurse and we'd fall back asleep for a bit before waking for the day
(i did that until she started rolling at around 4 months)
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
wow, that was LONG! I'm glad you posted it though - I hope it gives some of the mamas-to-be some perspective.
I gave up after a week, I just couldn't handle it emotionally feeling like he wasn't getting enough nutrition from me and that it seemed to be so much easier for him to drink from a bottle. I admire that you didn't give up, but for me, I think it was the best decision for us. I was so depressed and crying all the time. I'm sure that wasn't great for the baby either.
Anytime someone asks me about BFing, I always say they should take a class b/c it's not as natural or easy to do as you might think. There are so many problems you can encounter, but if you really want to do it, you can! It's great that you had a friend who gave you some milk - that's awesome.
I always said I would try (b/c BFing is infinitely cheaper than FFing!) but I wouldn't beat myself up over it if it didn't work out (I had a coworker that REALLY worked herself up into a huge depression b/c she couldn't get BFing to work).
Thanks for sharing your story. I too really want to succeed at BF, and am definitely trying to set myself up for success. I haven't read any books yet, but I am planning on taking a breastfeeding class at the hospital next weekend. I'm trying to be realistic that it's not as easy as some believe, but also I don't want to psyche myself out about FF.
Does anyone have any recommendations of books to read that they found helpful? I'm hoping the class as well as meeting with a LC very soon after birth will help get me on track, but I definitely could benefit from some personal research.
Jaime, I'm so glad you posted your story for others to read. Mine is in my blog. Bella was still nursing at 12 months too and I NEVER thought we'd make it a month, let alone 13 1/2 months of EBF! Congrats to you for making it this far. As for the night time nursing, Bella let it go before the morning nursing, she hung on to our morning sessions together for a bit
It was bittersweet to let the night nursing go but it was a good transition for both of us. Congrats for making it this far, I can't wait to see Miss A's pics!
oh I know... it's like your hormones are crashing so you are already super emotional and then on top of it you are having trouble providing nutrition for your newborn and it's supposed to be so "natural" and yet it seems anything but natural! I definitely think that you had a healthy attitude about it. it is important to recognize the flip side of this, too. I think that many women feel so pressured to BF that when it does not work out, they can become very sad and depressed about it. there is nothing wrong with FFing and you are no less of a mother for choosing that. you have to do what is best for you and your baby. I honestly don't think that BFing was as important to me as it was to MH but b/c it was so important to him it became more important to me and i felt so pressured to make it work. it was so draining to deal with a newborn and then deal w/these BFing issues on top of everything else. in the end i am glad that i persevered but at the time, i literally wanted to give up every single day (and multiple times a day!) in the beginning. i hope that by reading my story others will know what to expect and see that they are not alone.
i've only read one book and it was the one given to me at the hospital ...it's from the AAP, "New Mother's Guide to Breastfeeding." some of the stories are kind of corny but the info in it is good.
the biggest advice i can give you (aside from try to stick it out at least 4-6 weeks before deciding it's not for you) is to avoid supplementation if at all possible (*I edited the "at all cost" out) (during the first few weeks while you are establishing your supply - after your supply is established i don't think it matters). i know that some women do it and successfully transition back to EBFing but i think the vast majority are not able to. the baby's hunger just increases and the cries get worse while mom's supply hasn't caught up and it just gets really hard to stop supplementing. we are lucky that we did not have a problem supplementing miss A, too....but i think b/c we only gave her 1 oz on two separate occasions it was ok (that and my milk came in shortly thereafter)... the baby is just soooo much more efficient at removing milk from your breasts that you have to pump a lot more for every bit of milk/formula you supplement with. most women seem to have supply issues after they supplement, esp after the baby has had the extra milk and then wants more each time...and it takes some time for your body to build up the supply you need for your baby. i know that it is hard to hear your baby crying from hunger, trust me i know...but try to keep in mind that it is natural/normal for your baby to survive off your colostrum alone in the beginning until your milk comes in...that is why they are born with excess water and energy stores and the pediatricians expect them to lose weight before starting to gain weight. some moms freak out as soon as baby starts to lose weight but it is normal. inamra's baby was dehydrated and that is different (i agree w/their decision to supplement) but in Miss A's case we really probably should not have even supplemented...she was having plenty of wet/dirty diapers and literally 6-8 hours after we did it my milk finally came in ...so it was more about me just not being able to handle her crying and weight loss emotionally than anything else...she probably would have been fine going those few extra hours on just colostrum.
i think it's also really important to have a friend to support you through the beginning when it's hard. whether that is someone nearby you or the ladies on this board... i think it's impossible to do it alone. so don't hesitate to come here if you need to.
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
Hi J -
I think it's great that it worked out for you. You worked very hard and wanted to do what is best for your baby and I truly respect that. It's also great that you shared your story so mom's who go through similar struggles can know that they're not alone.
There are only 2 things that I have a problem with. First is that introducing formula to your child will have an "irriversable effect", and second to avoid supplementation at all costs.
The irreversible effect part I just find overly dramatic (yes, I'm sure there are tons of article on the web that say this). If you ask a mom if she wants to do something that will have an "irriversible effect" on her kid, of course she going to say no. You can make this argument for the first time that you introduce solids to a baby too though. At some point you are going to introduce a "foreign protein". If you are on medication, whatever it may be for, and breastfeeding, aren't you introducing foreign proteins? But if you're breastfeeding and you take antibiotics, won't your kid thus be taking antibiotics too and isn't that also "foreign"? My point is that they way you had stated just makes everything seem like something to be scared of.
For the avoiding of supplementation, I totally respect your decision to use donor milk. But isn't that supplementation too? To say "avoid at all costs" you're saying its ok to withhold food from your kid? I'm sorry, I just cannot support that. If your milk doesn't come in, by all means, use donor milk, pump like crazy and do all the things you can to get your supply in if you choose, but to not feed your child I think it just, well, just wrong. And I can't imagine the stress a baby endures from being hungry (even if they are getting the bare minimum for survival from colostrum) is exactly healthy.
I agree w/ what you said about dr.s being ok w/ a baby losing weight after delivery and that's normal, but E had lost so much weight that she was a day away from being hospitalized.
Personally, I also think that FF had benefits that were great for our family, bonding w/ her dad being #1 since feeding was now a 50/50 responsibility. There's a whole other list of things that if I listed I'm sure I'd get slammed for and told it's a "myth".
I don't see moms that have FF as moms who "gave up" either. I mean, that just sounds like moms who BF are better than those don't. I just wish moms didn't have to feel guilty about formula feeding.
Cerclage placed @ 21w6d due to CI (IC)
sorry, i wasn't trying to be overly dramatic or scare anyone. you're right that introducing solids is very much the same...and it's the reason why it's recommended to wait until 4-6 months to introduce solids to a baby...because the gut hasn't had time to fully mature. different meds can have the same effect like you said b/c they are foreign...but it depends on the medication. the antifungal meds she was on would not have the same effect but antibiotics definitely would. she was not on antibiotics herself and what was passed through the BM when i took the antibiotics for the mastitis was not enough to affect her. still, even if it did of course i would never promoted holding off on medicating a baby for this reason. you have to do what is best for your baby.
it's all theory anyway, but it's thought that the reason why FF fed babies are more prone to allergies and such is b/c of the exposure early on to these proteins. and i know they're all generalizations... i was FF too and i never had any respiratory or allergy problems like MH did so just b/c someone uses formula doesn't mean their baby is going to grow up to be in poorer health either. we just had particular reason to really want to EBF due to DH's medical history.
yep, what we did was supplementation as well. no arguments there...which is why i said that we were lucky that i didn't have issues w/my supply b/c of it... and i think part of that is b/c we supplemented with so little. i guess "at all costs" is a bit stronger than what i was intending to say... i just think that sometimes people jump to supplementation sooner than needed... but i agree that you can only do that to a degree...and if your baby is starving or dehydrated etc that you should not avoid supplementation and lose sight of the overall picture which is the importance of your baby's health, not the attainment of your BFing goal. as parents, we were really freaking out that her weight had dropped so much and my milk still hadn't come in...but when we told our regular pedi, she acted like it was no big deal at all b/c she was still healthy in appearance and had plenty of wet/dirty diapers...and once my milk came in, she started to gain 3-4oz per day. in hindsight, i do not think she was crying so much simply b/c she was hungry...b/c even after my milk came in she'd cry quite a bit...and i think part of it was also her making an adjustment to the new world around her. was some of it from wanting milk and being hungry? sure, but i don't think i was starving her.I agree that there's a whole long list of benefits of FFing as well...and I don't think women should see FFing as "giving up" either. I really wish that DH could have been more involved with the feedings and that's something you were able to benefit from that we didn't. moms who FF know exactly how much their babies are getting, are less likely to have babies with Vitamin D deficiencies, etc. so I agree there is a good list of pros and cons for both BFing and FFing. (and i don't think anyone would slam you or flame you for posting anything on this board)
in the end, as with so many other things with parenting, i think as a mom you just have to do was is right/best for your baby and your family...and no one should feel guilty for choosing one path vs the other. i tried to convey that in my original post but if it didn't really come across that way i apologize. i don't want anyone to feel guilty for choosing to FF instead of BF.
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
I'm quite curious about this since I've read so many conflicting things about this lately - more related to solid foods, but I suppose it's theory arising from the same place. Like how not introducing wheat grain is meant to help prevent allergies, but recent studies seem to show that introducing them before 6 months either doesn't make a difference or possibly even helps prevent allergies. I recently read something similar about peanuts - that newer studies show that exposure before 12 months can actually help prevent an allergy, whereas we've all been told that it can cause them.
I'm curious if it's really the FF or maybe other factors that tend to be correlated to FF that cause the issues. For example, I know that in today's society, higher socioeconomic brackets tend to EBF while lower ones often FF (odd since it costs more, but one explanation I read was that it was considered a sign of poverty to have to EBF vs being able to afford to buy your child formula, so it's a status thing). It makes me wonder if it's possible that the asthma and allergies are actually from other causes - different nutrition as young children, area of living, etc. - and not strictly linked to FF.
Totally off topic I know - I just wonder.
You see, I dunno about the whole allergies thing. I feel like the world of allergies is still a very unknown realm and my personal inkling is that it's more strictly genetically-related than anything else. Take my brother and I, for example. Same parents, only 1.5 years apart. I was EBF for 6-9 months, my bro was FF from the get-go. He has absolutely *no* allergies. I, on the other hand, have all sorts of food allergies, eczema, hay fever, allergic to metals/soaps/fragrances/etc. We're raised the same way, exposed to the same things, lived together and ate almost every meal together/the same foods until we were 18, so it's not environmental. Go figure. So I'm not really convinced on the BFing-allergies thing (I think I just got the "allergy genes" from my parents and he didn't), but I definitely am introducing foods to LO one at a time so that if he is allergic to something I'll know right away rather than make it a guessing game and possibly exposing it to him more than necessary to try to figure out which food he was allergic to.
This is true, too. My sister, brother and I were all EBF and I have some crazy ass allergies (especially really severe hayfever that no one else in my family - immediate or otherwise - has). My brother and sister? None. Go figure!
You brought up some awesome points J
I want to reply but E keeps either trying to type a reply herself or, when she's not in my face, she's trying to drink out of the toilet...
I'll get back to you as soon as the little terrorist allows
Cerclage placed @ 21w6d due to CI (IC)
Oh, and I forgot to mention...my bro is way smarter than me too =P
Maybe I should be posting all this in the FF post instead =]
Alright, I'm gonna ramble, I apologize in advance
I think this a really important point:
**"it's all theory anyway, but it's thought that the reason why FF fed babies are more prone to allergies and such is b/c of the exposure early on to these proteins. and i know they're all generalizations."**
It is theory and generalizations. I'm glad that there is so much info out there, but I think we, as an over-informed generation of mothers need to read the info, know that most of it is theory and not fact, and make the best decision we can for our family, not just, the baby, but the whole family unit.
I was listening to a podcast when H and I were road tripping last month, it was about how mothers in the 50's (or was it 30's?) were told not to touch their children so much because it'll make them sick. Can you imagine?? It was so polar opposite of what we "know" now, that it sort of made everything about how child obsessed we are make more sense. It's just the pendulum swinging. So does that mean that the way that we parent now is "right"? I doubt it, the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.
If you have time to listen to a podcast, check out this one:
https://bit.ly/bdYamX , its a This American Life episode called, Unconditional Love. I'm telling you, it'll make your jaw drop when you hear the parenting theories of previous generations.
One of the things that gets my knickers twisted about TB is that I hear certain theories get repeated over and over as if they're fact. And even if these theories are fact, that doesn't mean that they fit and are right for every single child.
**"yep, what we did was supplementation as well. no arguments there...which is why i said that we were lucky that i didn't have issues w/my supply b/c of it... and i think part of that is b/c we supplemented with so little. i guess "at all costs" is a bit stronger than what i was intending to say"**
I think we, are so lucky that we can even have this discussion, we have options! If we are unable to feed our children, there are milk banks and formula, thank goodness for both. I mean, imagine the alternative.
Cerclage placed @ 21w6d due to CI (IC)
I think this is such a good point.....I say the same thing all the time about the world of education. The pendulum is always swinging. Wherever it is at the moment is what we "know" to be "right." But then give it 10-20 years....what will we "know" then, I wonder?
i don't necessarily think it is strictly genetically related...but i do think it is so multifactorial that no one can really figure it out LOL there is no doubt in my mind that there is a genetic component to it, but i think there are many other factors too and i'm not sure that the genetic factor is stronger than all others.
i think we can all think of siblings or friends who were BF vs FF and about who does or does not have bad allergies but in general the studies do show a lower incidence of allergies among BF babies. but, like Lisa said, maybe there are confounding factors associated with it and it is more of an association vs causation....who knows!
this made me laugh. trying to drink out of the toilet? oy. the things i have to look forward to!!
I agree... I know that on other boards one or both of us could have easily been flamed for saying what we did (even though i don't really think anything we said was truly flameworthy)...but it's nice that we're able to respect each others' opinions and have a civil discussion here
I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is not just one way that is right for every baby/family
I will definitely listen to that podcast some time (will try to do it this weekend) and like you mentioned in the other post, we can start another thread on it... I definitely know what you mean about our parents looking at us funny for doing things certain ways though, I get that all the time from them....
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats
Heh, this is why I prefer this board over the other Bump boards. There are some real drama llama boards out there...
First thanks for sharing all that. I hope it helps.
Breast feeding is hard. I'm sure it has always been hard but the fact that (for the most part) the generation(s) before us did not breast feed for any number of reasons does not help pass along support and knowledge.
I agree with you. We did no supplement, but I definitely felt pressure to but according to the class I took and the first hospital LC that visited (my friend's awesome mom!) I felt completely comfortable with the fact that Jack was loosing weight but seemed totally healthy. Some crazy ped tried to force it on us by saying he was showing signs of jaundice but when the other ped came on (who was actually from our office) he said he saw no immediate signs of concern. If I had not been as stubborn (is that the right word?) we would have been supplementing as soon as 12 hours after birth on the advice of a visiting ped and numerous nurses. Even to check out (even though our selected Ped discharged us no concerns what so ever) the hospital forced me to take some ready to feed formula and a supplemental nursing system. All of that could have made me really doubt my ability to nourish my child. So I can completely commiserate with your sentiment that the absolute first step to a successful run at breast feeding would be the need to really advocate for yourself and your child and believe in your body.
And finally, I totally support mothers that formula feed. Happy it's an option and I don't judge and know that each and everyone one of us is an awesome mom and no one thing can change that.
I don't think breastfeeding makes me a better mother than someone that formula feeds but I do think that breastfeeding is something I can and should be extremely proud of myself for the fact that I made it work and sacrifice on a daily basis (man, a second glass of wine would have been great tonight, BUT I had to feed Jack before bed... haha)
Hugs and high fives to ALL of us moms that are being the best mothers we can be
Totally agree here. We did supplement for about a week because we couldn't take Kaya's screaming and it was the only thing that would quiet her for a little while. But we only gave her about 20ml (less than 1oz) after she BF and I stopped cold turkey because I knew it might affect my supply. I'm kind of annoyed that our pedi suggested supplementing because she only lost like 6% of her birth weight. Next baby I probably won't supplement or I may pump and supplement with that if I have to. But really the best thing is to just nurse, nurse, nurse.
That being said, I have a friend who gave birth 4 months after me. She got caught in the cycle of supplementing and was never able to establish a good milk supply. I told her from the beginning that she needed to just nurse as much as possible but she said it hurt too much. She has never been able to pump more than 2 oz at a time. Even after sleeping ALL NIGHT.
AMEN to this! I made the decision to EBF and sacrificed, as well. I brought my pump to my friend's bachelorette party and pumped twice that night because I was only 6 weeks PP and was worried about my supply. Even a month or so ago I went out with my girlfriends and pumped while out! It can be a PITA but I'm glad I've kept it up. (And glad that I'm a NICU nurse and that my nurse friends totally don't think I'm a weirdo for pumping while we're out partying! Haha.)
"The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" is the book I read while pregnant and refer to time and time again now that she's here. It's by LLLI and very thorough. That and KellyMom.com have been my resources for all things breastfeeding (I have excess lipase and it wasn't covered at all in the book but is on KellyMom and LLLI.org, thank goodness!) I also corresponded via e-mail with a local LC when I was having oversupply/forceful letdown issues and that was SO helpful!
TTC/PG Blog | Mommy Blog
not to ignore the rest of the post, but I did want to share my bf'ing story (part 1)...
i gave birth at 10pm, E was whisked away to the NICU. needless to say, there was no time to try to nurse him. i started pumping the next morning at 11am, every 3 hours, around the clock. i started getting some colostrum late the second day (i think) - 0.15mL. I was so excited. each session after that, MH would sit there with a syringe and suck up the little beads of colostrum. my milk came in on day 6. one "benefit" of being in the NICU is that I didn't have to worry about weight loss - he was being fed through an IV. E was intubated (on a ventilator) for the first 5 days of his life. even then, i wasn't able to put him to the breast for the first time until he was about a week old since his respiratory rate was too high - he couldn't breathe, suck, swallow at the same time. then we primarily bottle-fed EBM, to get discharged sooner, as they don't let you go home until the baby can eat all feeds by breast and/or bottle for at least 48 hours. E would get too tired bf'ing, so we just tried at least once a day, hoping he wouldn't forget. luckily, E's latch has been good from the beginning (once I get him on properly).
i constantly dealt with clogged ducts, but it was once we got home that our bf'ing troubles really began. first, we were diagnosed with thrush. i had burning, shooting pain in my breasts between pumping, and then noticed the white patch on E's tongue. the next day, i felt like crap and spiked a fever, and my right breast developed huge hard spots - mastitis. the antibiotics kicked in after about 24 hr, and i felt a little better, but my supply tanked. i was initially very concerned about it, but after discussing with a LC, it turns out my diligent pumping had resulted in oversupply (as Sarah had warned). so hopefully i'm now less likely to get clogged ducts and mastitis again...
i initially had trouble getting letdown fast enough and strong enough for E, probably especially given that he's used to the bottle. but we worked through those issues, and now he'll happily eat for 10 min - and then falls asleep. i can't seem to keep him awake. which means he's up again in an hour, starving. of course, for the LC yesterday, he was awake and happy for the entire feed. she recommended I only pump no more than 3x/day, and EBF otherwise. however, feeding every hour is making me incredibly frustrated. it also makes it impossible to treat either of us for thrush, and my breasts are starting to hurt more again, so we're still using a bottle every few hours to give me a break. I don't know what I'm doing/she did differently. so that's where we are right now. the good news is that in the last few days (around 3 weeks), my nipple pain when E latches on, or when I start the pump, improved immensely, to the point where it's uncomfortable, but not something I dread.
as much as i hated pumping, and didn't understand how Nicole was considering EP, in less than 6 hours of attempting to EBF, i completely understood. i don't think a day has passed where i haven't shed tears of either pain, frustration, or sadness over pumping/bf'ing. stay tuned...
I SO wish I was kidding
Cerclage placed @ 21w6d due to CI (IC)
this is exactly how I feel. I am proud of myself for making it this far and I did struggle quite a bit in the beginning so my intention in writing this post was to encourage others who are struggling or who may struggle in the future, not to judge or makes those who FF feel bad about their choice.
I think this is more what I was trying to get at. I mean, you are not the only one who has told me their pedi wanted them to supplement when it was clearly not necessary. at 5-6% weight loss, that is normal!! esp if the baby is not dehydrated. it's like the pedi's know the parents are freaking out and know that weight loss is normal in the first few days but they try to scare the parents into supplementing.
i'll send you an email w/some suggestions re: some of your concerns
Jaime & Brent
Oahu, Hawaii | Sept. 9, 2005
My Food Blog - Good Eats 'n Sweet Treats