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BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12
SD lying
This is more of a parenting board question, but I don't post over there so I'd rather get opinions here. We have EOW during the school year and SD is 3, almost 4. The last two weekends she was here, she has lied to us several times. For example, she will lie and say that she has eaten all of her dinner when she really has only eaten a few bites. The rule is that she can stop eating when she is full, but that she won't have any snacks later on if she doesn't eat a good meal. I'm assuming that she would have lied then in order to get dessert or a snack later. Other times, she will lie and say that she was not playing with a toy because she doesn't want to put it away. Only once has she lied to get OUT of trouble; it's usually to avoid doing something she doesn't want to do.
Another problem is that older SD (5) is a frequent tattletale and we have been trying to work on that as well. She is not to tell on her sister unless someone could get hurt or unless someone is bothering her after she has asked them to stop. Older SD tells on her younger sister when she lies, which doesn't really fall into the the reasons when it is ok to tell on someone. It's hard to ignore SD (5) telling on her sister sometimes when that is the only way we know that younger SD is lying.
Every time younger SD lies, she gets a time out. We have both spoken to her about trust, and that if she lies we might not believe her even when she is telling the truth. It's just very frustrating and I'm hoping that it's just her age, but when we spoke to her mom about it, we were told that it's not a problem at her house. If it was a phase, I would think that SD would be lying in both households. I just hate that she is getting in trouble all the time for this because it seems so silly and we only have a limited time to spend with Skids. Any advice on how to make the lying stop? If SD (5) tells on her sister when she lies, should we react to it, or would that only encourage the tattletale-ing? (I know it's not a word) I don't want SD (3) getting the message that lying is ok as long as we don't catch her doing it. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12
This discussion has been closed.
Re: SD lying
I think lying is something all kids try, so I'd think it is a phase. As far as her not lying at her mom's house, it could be a couple of things: 1) mom isn't catching her lying, 2) maybe the rules are different at moms.
It sounds like she's just lying to get out of doing things she is supposed to. Perhaps the rules aren't as strict at her mom's, so she's never lied before about eating her dinner and playing with her toys. I'd relax a little on the lectures about "lying" and trust. I think making a big deal about it at this age is going to do more harm than good (telling her you don't trust her, etc.). Gently correct her when she lies and then move on. Kids need to know that you love and trust them and for now, let her outgrow it. If she gets older and it's still a problem, I'd worry about it more if she were 7 or 8.
I don't know if this helps or not, but we went through the exact same thing with both SD's at around the same age. I think it's definitely a phase. She's learning that she can lie and manipulate the world around her. What will determine if she continues to do it, is if she can get away with it.
I think the time outs are a wonderful idea. And it won't take just one for her to figure it out. Consistency is key. And it sounds like her Mom is not picking up on the lying just yet, but she will. We had the same issue and I think it made the situation a little more difficult to correct, but consistency, consistency, consistency. And I totally get where you are coming from, feeling like you are always the ones to be giving her trouble about lying, but it really will work if you stay consistent.
Seriously, you need to step back and realize that this is NORMAL age-appropriate behavior. It is not lying at 3yo, it is telling things how she wishes they were. It is a normal stage and should not involve time-outs. You are missing a valuable teaching opportunity, every time you catch her not telling the truth ask more questions to get the real answer out of her. For example, did you really eat all of your dinner or did you only eat a few bites? Then you can ask her why she did not eat all of it, was she not hungry, did she not like iet, etc. Oh, and PLEASE do not ever punish her for not finishing dinner, this is the one thing little kids can have full control of, what goes into their own mouth so you will creat major issues if you fight on this.
5yo tattletale, again normal albeit annoying. The oldest is TAUGHT to tattle, we never intend to teach it but as parents we do. We teach it ever time we ask a 3yo to keep an eye on the 1yo when we run to the bathroom or when the oldest catches the little one with something dangerous and we are proud that they told us. She does not know the difference between letting you know when her sister is about to get seriously injured and when her sister is just being annoying. TEACH her instead of punishing her.
Since you do not have any tickers I am going to assume you are not a BM yourself, I would seriously consider reading some parenting books and not look at this as a SK thing. And as a SM to an older SK I can promise you that you would not freak the same about lying with your own 3yo b/c you would realize that they are not trying to disobey you.
BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12
Kids, and people in general, lie because they don't feel safe telling the truth. Think back to any time you ever told a lie, and you will realize that you choose the safer option.
The rules are: You must eat a substantial meal.
For whatever reason she does not want to eat, be it she does not like the food, she is not hungry or she is distracted by something?
She can be defiant and say I am not eating - she will get in trouble.
She can lie and say she did eat it - there is a slight chance she might get away with it. She is choosing the safer option ever time.
Stop looking at her behavior and examine your own rules. Create a safe environment for her by allowing her to be full ad have say over what se eats.
As for tattletailing, well some people rebel and others conform. The 5 year old is conforming to your rules. Look at me, I am not breaking rules, and not only that, I will rat out who ever is so you will like me more. Tattletailing can be a sign of low self esteem, if I tell you how bad the other person is you will like me more.
Obviously kids tell lies and tattle occasionally BUT if it is repeatedly happening and is an obvious problem at your house but not at BM, then maybe you need to reexamine the kind of environment you are creating for these kids.
Littlejen suggestions above are excellent and I also recommend you ask questions as opposed to giving time outs. These are not behaviors that require punishment, just further understanding of what is happening for the child and why they feel the need to lie/tattle.
These are all good suggestions, and I'm not ignoring any of it. I just don't understand why she would need to lie as the safer option. These are not things they would get in trouble for. For example, we will ask "SD, were you playing with this toy? You need to put it away please." She will say she didn't touch it. "SD, did you wash your hands after you ate? Please wash your hands with soap." She will say she already did. I can see why she would not want to put her toys away or stop what she's doing to wash her hands, but they seem like such silly things to me. I guess in the 3 yr old mind they are big deals. lol I will try asking questions rather than giving time-outs. However, I just don't see the rules we have as so unreasonable. We're not overly strict but we don't allow them to do whatever they want, either. We are very loving and I give praise when they follow the rules. It would break my heart if SD's truly felt that our home is not a safe or loving environment.
BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12
The reason I said it was a BF thing is b/c as a SM you do not have the experience that comes up to this point, and believe me it is still frustrating. And yes, their favorite meal today is the one they are sick of next week or just don't want, there is no rational with little kids. DD wanted a hard-boiled egg ever day and one day acted like we were trying to poison her, so annoying b/c we finally found something she loved. And honestly they do not know why they feel the way they do, sometimes it is a control thing and sometimes they just feel a certain way.
As for the tattletale thing, my only suggestion (my kids are younger so take it with a grain of salt) is to keep explaining when she comes to you and it is good and when she comes to you and it was either no big deal or if she could have handled it herself. And if YOU think she could handle it herself, ask her questions about how she could have solved the problem and if she has no idea then give her suggestions so that next time she knows. And from my experience with my now 21yo SD, kids cannot always relate one situation to another so just b/c they can how handle it if that exact thing happens again, sometime similar might be an issue.
Personally, she doesn't need snacks after dinner anyway, good meal or not. Making that an option, imo, encourages her to safe room for later. What's she's trying to do is test out the line between few bites and a substantial dinner in hopes for that promised snack.
I'm not saying you should never give a kid dessert or an after dinner snack but when you do, it should be a spontaneous thing every once in a while and not at all tied to how much she ate.
If she says she's hungry 15 minutes later, tell her, "I'm sorry, honey but we've already had dinner and you were given plenty of time to eat then. You'll have to wait until breakfast." And then, for God's sake, stick.to.it. Once she realizes that there really isn't anything after dinner, she'll eat more at mealtimes.
I will warn you though, kids dig in when you're trying to reset expectations. So it might take a few dinners, a few denied snacks, and a few pout/wail sessions for her to realize you aren't giving in. And she's going to amp out the outrage in the hopes that you'll just give her a snack already.
I wouldn't do time outs for lying at three. Especially because at three, the line between a few bites and I'm full is pretty damned blurry. The reason her mom is probably saying lying isn't a problem is because miss ma'am really isn't telling her a bold faced lie.
At three, lies are things like "Did you hit your sister?"
Personally, you shouldn't be asking questions your already know the answers to or even asking questions if you know you aren't going to find the answer acceptable.
Oh one more thing about food, you should probably try giving her much smaller portion sizes and allowing her to ask for more if she's still hungry. If you feel she hasn't eaten enough, separate a few small bites from the rest and tell her she can go after she eats those.
Click me, click me!
Those are good points because at this point I know her well enough that if she really hit her sister, I can see it on her face and I don't need to ask her. Also, I do ask her if she can eat three more bites, but I will try giving her smaller portions than what she would normally eat so that she can ask for more.
BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12
BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12
I forgot about the leftovers approach. Totally reasonable. If she's not eating at dinner time, when she is hungry, she gets her dinner food. I like to do a fresh plate, but we always have leftovers. If you don't, just wrap her plate after a short time.
Don't turn meal times into battles. It's not worth it.
I agree. Meal times have gotten much easier since I changed my behavior. We used to make Skids sit at the table until they had eaten a good amount. Then I learned, actually through a discussion on this board, not to turn food into a battle. We started letting them be done when they were full, but no snacks or desserts later on if they refused to eat more than a few bites of dinner. I haven't reheated leftovers for them though, so I'll try that as an alternative.
BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12
Um, if she does not like it at dinner and you serve it for left-over lunch that is just cruel IMHO, and I sure would not want my child treated like that.
One thing, check what time she eats at her Mom's b/c if it is different that can cause issues too.
I think PP's were meaning that if the kids don't eat any dinner, they save it just in case the kids were to come back, say, a half hour later and say they're hungry. At least that's how I understood it. I wouldn't want last night's leftovers for lunch the next day and I wouldn't expect Skids to eat something that I wouldn't eat myself.
BFP 11/23/10 MMC @ 7w3d Discovered @ 10w2d D&C 1/12/11
BFP 7/6/11 Our Lucky Charm born 3/5/12