Has IF Weakened Anyone's Faith/Religion?

patchen30 · November 2010

This could be a really controversial subject...but has IF weakened anyone else's faith/religion?

I was raised Catholic...but we weren't very strict and although religion was always part of my life in a traditional way I don't consider myself to be an extremely religious person. I have always gone to mass maybe an everage of once a month however and have always believed in God and prayed to God and thought there was a higher power, etc.

I feel cynical and am almost afraid to say this, but I find my beliefs in God really challenged these days and I almost wonder if I just believe in science more than God. Wow - scary to say that. But I also believe that the God I had/have faith in would forgive me for being doubtful considering what I've been through.

I have prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and cried and cried and cried, and yet my prayers have yet to be answered and I've yet to be comforted. I've endured way too much pain in this IF journey (and I know everyone else here has too).

I just don't know how to reconcile that with my belief in a kind God who wants human life to prevail.

sweetky_06 · November 2010

I think anytime our prayers aren't answered when we want them to be, in the way we want them to be, we often begin to doubt.

I won't call myself very religious, but I was brought up in the Church, and I find myself drawn back to certain stories and teachings from time to time. It doesn't mean that they always comfort me, but sometimes I do feel comfort in knowing that people throughout history have faced the struggles and the heartaches that I feel. It is the Bible I feel closest to, not the Church. The Church focuses so much on families that it can be difficult for those of us with IF to feel comfortable.

Hannah's story in 1 Samuel parallels ours in as much as an ancient story can - I would recommend keeping Hannah's Hope https://www.amazon.com/Hannahs-Hope-Infertility-Miscarriage-Adoption/dp/1576836541/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289942429&sr=8-1

on hand for when you are ready to read it. It is very "Bible-y", but to me, it's about the story, the struggle, and the accompanying parallel stories that brought me some peace at a certain point in my journey.

Big ((Hugs)) sweetie. I sincerely hope that you can reconcile your grief and disappointment with the faith you'd like to or not to have and be in a peaceful place.

beth0874 · November 2010

I know how you are feeling. I actually had a brief conversation about this today. I was raised Catholic as well. I actually started questioning my religion more when DH and I got married. DH is divorced so we couldn't get married in a Catholic church. So technically he is still married to his ex-wife in the eyes of God and I am living in sin. Now add on the struggles of IF and how the Catholic church is against IVF. I have to tell you that I believe in God, I love Him, respect Him but do have a lot more questions unanswered and question the Catholic religion. It makes me sad to say that though.

jessican08 · November 2010

I wish I could give you a hug IRL Patchen. I'll answer honestly and say yes. I don't usually go to mass (I'm a bad Catholic) but I have prayed at home and I talk to God often. I pray for you ladies, I pray for myself, I pray for those in need and for those who are suffering...I did go to mass on Sunday with my mom and we both prayed and cried and wouldn't you know it, AF showed up yesterday...you can't help but feel betrayed sometimes...I've even asked God what I'm being punished for...why can people who abuse, neglect and even murder their children conceive so easily and we can't? It's not fair...that's the main thing...it's just not fair. I sometimes wear a crucifix and I'll admit that after my last IUI, I ripped it off my neck...I felt SO guilty afterwards...but I was just so angry in that moment...it was all I could think to do.

LadyGolfer523 · November 2010

I'm at a crossroads. I have never been the most religious person, but I do believe in God. However... the prayers I have prayed, the miracles I've asked for, the tears I have cried, the baby we lost have all made me question why I believe in anything. I'm having a really hard time with faith/religion right now.

erinandbrockv · November 2010

Me. I grew up in church as well, although not in a super religious family so to speak. I find that when people say "have faith," or "god has a plan," or anything like that I get very very very angry. I refuse to believe that there is a God that could "choose" for my husband and I not to be able to have our own children, but crackheads and downright terrible people can. I just think it is BS. Sometimes I think that people look back after they have struggled with something and say "oh, see, that was God's plan all along." just as a way to justify the struggle.

DH and I have recently started going back to church, and I do feel comforted at times in a strange way. But, I just feel so much "anger" toward God if that makes sense. I hate saying that. But I do.

Im sorry you are going through this. I hope we all can get out of this Hell soon!

Rachael07.07.07 · November 2010

Absolutely.

I've written about this many times in my blog in recent months. I no longer believe in what I did growing up. I wasn't raised Catholic but I was raised in the United Church of Christ. While I do think certain aspects of the Bible and some logic are useful (golden rule, etc) I don't find the Bible and it's teachings to be what I think anymore. I don't believe in one God. I believe in something. What that something is, I have no idea. I have faith in something. That's what's important. I find that I am naturally drawn to the teachings of Buddhism.

I guess I don't believe that God has a plan. There is no plan for crack heads to have babies and I can't. There is no one up in the clouds picking and choosing who gets to have kids and who doesn't. I don't think that accepting your fate as an infertile will lead you to getting pregnant. I think science does. I never was a science over religion person but I am leaning very far that way. I think that religion gets used as a crutch in hard times. Like for me, I have always believed gays should be able to be married. I am still pro-choice. Idk.

It was extremely hard for me to accept that faith failed me. God failed me. My religion failed me. I cried over it many times. But I feel stronger and more confident now. I do not look down on those that believe. I still pray. I just am open to other explanations now. All I know is that as long as you live a good (moral) life, I think that's the most important part.

(and my response in no way is meant to offend anyone. If it does, I am very sorry for that.)

kthappy76 · November 2010

I'm not a super religious person, but I was raised to and still believe in God. If anything, IF has actually somewhat lessened my faith in science since IF sits in the neglected corner of medicine. I read some interesting posts lately on this blog... https://sabbespot.blogspot.com/search/label/biblical%20womanhood that really hit home for me. She is recently pg (fair warning), but she also tragically lost her 27 year old brother earlier this year and her mother's house in Nashville was completely destroyed by flooding. It is easy to feel from what we are taught that if you are a good person (work hard, follow the rules) and a good Christian, Catholic, whatever, good things should happen. This, of course, is not how life works.

From her blog... on the book "Emotionally Healthy Spirituality:

"This Chapter of EHS focuses on "the wall" that most of us are brought to along our spiritual journey. This wall is a great challenge, pain, loss, struggle, disappointment, etc. or a combination of many, that we are forced to deal with in our lives. Scazzero says " We question ourselves, God, the church. We discover for the first time that our faith does not appear to "work." We have more questions than answers as the very foundation of our faith feels like it is on the line. We don't know where God is, what he is doing, where he is going, how he is getting us there, or when this will be over."

There have been some walls in my life this year for sure. Fortunately I have been able to cling to God instead of pushing him away and I firmly believe that "God powerfully invades us when we persevere patiently through his suffering." I understand that sadness, pain, and loss are not something that God delights in. He weeps with us when we are sad. Our grief is the result of a fallen world, not a fallen Creator. "We make choices to trust God, to wait on God, to obey God, to stick with God, to remain faithful when everything in us wants to quit and run."

In our society it becomes very easy to start viewing God as your personal wishing well. We use terms like "personal Lord and Savior", which is meant to describe your individual walk with the God and the fact that he knows us by name.(Luke 12:17) To many people it translates to a personal assistant and secretary. We pray "I obey and keep my part of the bargain. Now you bless me. Do not allow any serious suffering." One thing is for sure, the human mind is not expected to understand God. We have all known and been saddened over the fact that people die, spouses are unfaithful, natural disasters occur, people lose their jobs, and people struggle with infertility. But it is often not a question of whether God is good, or God exists, until some of these struggles land on our own front door. Why is God good and faithful until it happens to us? And when it happens to us will we realize, this is our wall? Will this be the end of our spiritual journey? I hope not.

I know to some people this whole book may sound like a big downer, calling out all of our life's imperfections. And I just want to point out that I use my life as an example not to say, "oh, listen how sad it's been and all I have suffered", or "look at me, I've been through so much and I still love God, what's wrong with you?" Walking with God is a marathon, not a sprint. Everyones' walk is different, but I will testify that if I had not let the Lord carry me through this year, I would not be in a very good place. I have met with a therapist and spoken with different people over the past 8 months who always ask the question, "How did you make it through this? You seem to be doing so well." And while I am not always "ok", I let them know that my strength comes from my God (which is always interesting in a town where people are very uncomfortable taking about, or giving credit to, God) Like the classic poem reads, sometimes we walk with God and sometimes he carries us. I have not walked in 9 months. If you are at your wall, I truly believe it's the only way to keep moving."

Rachael07.07.07 · November 2010

Interesting kthappy Big Smile

I guess I still go to science because I don't think I ever thought growing up that if I'm a good person, good things are granted to me. It's luck, fate, karma in my eyes. I guess I also don't find solace in letting my faith "take credit" (for lack of better words) in what I have accomplished. Does God get us through the hard times or are we really that strong/resilient of a human being?

Even though IF is still the black sheep in the medical community I wonder why that really is. Is it scientist/researcher's personal beliefs that get in the way? Is it funding? If they need capital and grant money, who makes the decision to give and for what reasons? So..does faith stop science in that respect? Even though it's neglected...it's still there every time someone goes to ER or gets an hsg. It's a science experiement, lol. Just better quality than my 6th grade version of one.

(all of course MPO and nothing more)

kthappy76 · November 2010

Sorry Patchen for hijacking your post, but Rachael you are totally right. I believe in God, (DH is Hindu) but I'm basically a secular humanist. I think you are right about why IF is neglected, and am totally pro-science, I guess I've just lost a lot of "faith" in doctors and the medical community given my experiences.

MoFree · November 2010

I was born Catholic and raised in a marginally observant family but the Church teachings never resonated with me. Much to my father's chagrin, I converted to Judaism, my husband's religion of birth, before we got married.

I do not believe that infertility is a punishment from God or that God has anythiing to do with fertility or the lack thereof. I am no more and no less observant or believing as a result of our fertility struggles

I often read an online column from written by a Reform rabbi and am copying what he ssees is the purpose of prayer. Again, one person's belief and not a unviversal, but they strongly echo my own.

Answer Question Ask Friends

What do you think is(are) the purpose(s) of prayer

I tackled a similar question a while back, so I'm reprinting most of my answer which I have augmented this time around. Yours is a good question, an important question, and I'm happy to share my views.

I think there are lots of purposes to prayer. As a necessary preamble to my full response, however, I want to critique what I believe represents most people's attitudes toward prayer as deeply misguided. Worst of all attitudes is one that treats God like some kind of cosmic vending machine, where prayer becomes a vehicle by which one asks for what one hopes to receive. God doesn't work that way and prayer offered with this mindset is bound to leave us disappointed. So if prayer isn't about asking God to give us what we want, what purposes does prayer have? What benefits does prayer offer?

First of all, prayer helps a person cultivate an "attitude of gratitude." Just because I don't believe that God's like a puppeteer, pulling the marionette strings of the universe, or a cosmic vending machine, dispensing favors for the deserving, doesn't mean that I'm not grateful for the marvelous cosmos that inspires awe upon the contemplation of it....

Prayer helps us cultivate a state of mindfulness. In this way prayer is sort of like yoga; it awakens a person's consciousness, slows down the hectic pace of life, draws one to an awareness of the beauty and significance of life, connects us to a community of like-minded worshippers, draws us closer to the people in the congregation, gives us language to express hope, fear, doubt, dreams, wishes.... Praying for strength when facing adversity, for instance, can actually help a person find more readily his/her own reservoir of inner strength.

Prayer teaches us to remember what matters and worry less about what doesn't.

Prayer connects us to our Jewish past, locates us more steadily in our present, and lets us consider how we would like to engage our future.

Because prayer in the Jewish tradition is a communal experience (a minyan or 10 individuals is required for many prayer experiences), prayer helps us draw together in a commonality of aspiration and purpose as a Jewish community.

may2806 · November 2010

I was raised Catholic and still believe in God, but I no longer (if I ever really did) believe that praying to God gets you what you want. It actually kind of annoys me when people even on this board thank God for answering their prayers; does that mean he ignored mine? I really like the quote above from the rabbi who says prayer can be used more like yoga, to center us, make us grateful for what we have, slow down our hectic lives and appreciate things. I've been trying to do this more in my life, and I think it is helping give me a little perspective.

Like other posters have said, I just don't believe there is some master plan God has for everyone and he's pulling the strings for everything that happens. If that were true I really couldn't justify how he could possibly create the suffering of innocent people or the good fortune of 'bad' people - I'd prefer to believe God has no hand in it rather than that he is actually making those things happen as part of some unknowable plan. I think that he is around to help us through things instead of actually creating the things, if that makes sense. And I guess I've been thinking of the science behind it - when I ask, why is this happening to me? I think, well, you developed stage IV endometriosis which ate up your eggs, and have a genetic condition called Fragile X which has been linked to POF. You didn't meet your husband and want to have kids until most of your eggs were gone. That is just the way it happened and it's no one's fault - it's just nature and life, however much it sucks. So I then I pray to have strength to get through it, and hope that DE brings me success. And if I do get through it, I know I will be a stronger person.

Sorry, got off track a little, but that's how I'm looking at things now, if it helps. ((HUGS))

Rachael07.07.07 · November 2010

MoFree:

Prayer helps us cultivate a state of mindfulness. In this way prayer is sort of like yoga; it awakens a person's consciousness, slows down the hectic pace of life, draws one to an awareness of the beauty and significance of life, connects us to a community of like-minded worshippers, draws us closer to the people in the congregation, gives us language to express hope, fear, doubt, dreams, wishes.... Praying for strength when facing adversity, for instance, can actually help a person find more readily his/her own reservoir of inner strength.

Yes

I think this is exactly why I continue to pray even though I don't know exactly why or to whom I am doing so.

MegW21 · November 2010

I believe in God and find a lot of comfort in reading the Bible, but certainly infertility has been a tough pill to swallow. Like so many of us, I never thought I'd struggle to have kids, and sometimes I'm very frustrated to be in these circumstances. Even people who have very strong faith stumble and question sometimes, and I don't think that's a sin. The Bible says that God knows us, because he made us--it says in fact that he knows we are "dust"--and he makes allowances for our struggles.

I hope that you can find comfort as you go though this incredibly rough time in your life. I was sorry to hear about your loss, and can't imagine the level of frustration you're experiencing.

chizzle09 · November 2010

may2806:

I was raised Catholic and still believe in God, but I no longer (if I ever really did) believe that praying to God gets you what you want. It actually kind of annoys me when people even on this board thank God for answering their prayers; does that mean he ignored mine? I really like the quote above from the rabbi who says prayer can be used more like yoga, to center us, make us grateful for what we have, slow down our hectic lives and appreciate things. I've been trying to do this more in my life, and I think it is helping give me a little perspective.

Like other posters have said, I just don't believe there is some master plan God has for everyone and he's pulling the strings for everything that happens. If that were true I really couldn't justify how he could possibly create the suffering of innocent people or the good fortune of 'bad' people - I'd prefer to believe God has no hand in it rather than that he is actually making those things happen as part of some unknowable plan. I think that he is around to help us through things instead of actually creating the things, if that makes sense. And I guess I've been thinking of the science behind it - when I ask, why is this happening to me? I think, well, you developed stage IV endometriosis which ate up your eggs, and have a genetic condition called Fragile X which has been linked to POF. You didn't meet your husband and want to have kids until most of your eggs were gone. That is just the way it happened and it's no one's fault - it's just nature and life, however much it sucks. So I then I pray to have strength to get through it, and hope that DE brings me success. And if I do get through it, I know I will be a stronger person.

Sorry, got off track a little, but that's how I'm looking at things now, if it helps. ((HUGS))

This. I don't think what we're going through is "God's plan" or "God's will." I get so p*ssed off when people say that. I feel like saying, So then it is God's will for innocent children to get abused, killed, etc.? I don't think God has anything to do what I'm going through. He doesn't have a say in whether or not this month is "going to be my month." I do believe in God but I don't think He will decide whether or not I will be a parent.

whitewave26 · November 2010

I will start of by saying that I am Agnostic, I don't believe in creation, but I might believe there is a higher power.

That being said, going though infertility and seeing how much the ladies on this board have gone through it has only strenghtened my beliefs as an Agnostic.

I can't believe that God wouldn't give such wonderful women babies, why would God let my husbands brother die at age 20? Why would God give an abuser a child?

I can definately understand how your faith would be weakened.

Jenny952 · November 2010

:raises my hands:

Yes, I do sometimes wonder about God and faith. I was raised Catholic, we went to church every Sunday, I attended religious school from K-high school. But lately I have been feeling like there isn't anything there, and it kind of makes me really sad because something I thought has always been there is suddenly gone. I don't think that things are "meant to be" or that there is a plan or destiny. I believe that crappy things happen to good people and good things happen to crappy people. And I believe that the good people make things happen for ourselves.

Sorry for the rambling but you're not alone. And if anyone has figured it out, please let the rest of us know!

Mrs.AmandaMqn · November 2010

IF has totally changed how I feel about my faith and religion. I was raised Catholic but have no desire to continue in the Church due to their stance on ART, among other things. It makes me sad b/c I love the tradition of the Church and I think Mass is beautiful.

Even though I'm not sure what I believe anymore I still pray because I know I believe in something.

SunMoon&Stars · November 2010

Many things have slowly eroded my faith until I finally realized I had become an atheist, but IF reinforced that. Especially the premise that God decides who should have children and who shouldn't - I'd like to know God's rationale for letting people like Casey Anthony (for example) have children.

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