Anyone go through the new airport full body scans while pg?

MrsH_08 · November 2010

Or refuse it and have the pat-down? Has anyone had to make this choice, yet? We're traveling for Xmas and will be going through 2 airports that, I believe, have the scanners. I probably wouldn't care much if I weren't pg. From what I'm reading, one form of scanner isn't too bad, but they don't know much about the effects of the other. :-p

I know you have the right to ask for a pat-down instead, but from what I read, they're pretty invasive. The pat-down includes checking between the thighs and buttocks. Indifferent

koosh ball · November 2010

If I have to, i'll pick the pat down. I'll take the groping to the radiation. Yes, it has been said that its less radiation than 15 minutes in the sun but i don't trust them. I also don't ant pictures of me x-rayed anywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 software bugs can be bad.

Edit: I am not pregnant but still won't go through it.

MrsH_08 · November 2010

What was that link? Didn't seem to go to an existing page.

Apparently, the scans are being viewed by a TSA agent in a private room, removed from the screening area. Faces are not included and the image only shows body contours. I'm not keen on either idea, but I also don't want to avoid travel, either.

koosh ball · November 2010

Ill fix the link in the morning. The bump doesn't like my ipad much.

CDMay2006 · November 2010

I haven't read the whole thing, but it's from a reasonably reliable source and may help you make your decision: https://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html

For the patdown, can you opt for a female agent?

pinktulips · November 2010

Opt out!

tfarabians · November 2010

I would much rather go through scanners than have a pat down at this point where they are molesting you in pat downs. However on the today show they were talking about it and said that most airports only have a few scanners and still have regular walk through detectors so I would pick the line with one of those to just walk through.

On a side note if the airport only has scanners you best get there really really early for holiday travel, they were saying the scanners take 3-4 minutes a person and if they have to do a pat down even longer! Lines are going to be insane!

Mama_v2.0 · November 2010

koosh ball:
If I have to, i'll pick the pat down. I'll take the groping to the radiation. Yes, it has been said that its less radiation than 15 minutes in the sun but i don't trust them. I also don't ant pictures of me x-rayed anywhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 software bugs can be bad.

That is horrible and scary. It would seem we just created ourselves a terrorist weapon. I would take the pat down over the x-ray while PG...why take the risk.

KNemo · November 2010

Does anyone know the protocol for patting down a baby/toddler? We are flying on December 4th. I don't want to go through the scanners, but I also don't want my child molested by an overzealous TSA agent! Especially since he is already weary of strangers.

Nancy_Drew · November 2010

I went thru them while PG. They have had them in Salt Lake for years. No biggie. That one is different th an the one at SeaTac though... Here inn Seattle, they only have 1 and it's on the B gate. If you go to another security checkpoint, you won't even have to worry about it. Also, the scanner is only 1 particular lane out of 8-10 at ech security checkpoint. If you don't want to go the, just don't get into that lane. You can choose which lane you get into once you pass the person that checks your boarding pass and ID. (usually the shortest for me!) Even if you do get in the scanner line, there is a regular metal detector right next to it so even if your carry ons go thru the the scanner next to the body scanner, if there is someone in it and the other walk thru is open, they will flag you to go thru that instead. This happened to me last week. I fly every other week and I have yet to go thru the on here in Seattle and only 1x had to go thru the one at Salt Lake even though I was there 3x a month. So basically, at this point they are totally optional, just get in a different lane and you won't Have to worry about it.

Nancy_Drew · November 2010

Also they have a new rule, if you beep going thru security, they no longer give you the option to go back and empty your pockets, take off your belt etc. And go thru again. They will escort you over to be wanded down. Not sure if this includes the pat down or not. Usually once I get thru, i'm racing to my gate as i'm usually late, lol

seller8888 · November 2010

I wondered that as well...I wouldn't want my child of any age molested by some TSA agent!

I personally am planning on the pat down....I don't want to take any unnecessary risks and while I really don't want them groping my ultra sensitive pregnancy boobs, I don't want radiation either!

Nancy_Drew · November 2010

KNemo:
Does anyone know the protocol for patting down a baby/toddler? We are flying on December 4th. I don't want to go through the scanners, but I also don't want my child molested by an overzealous TSA agent! Especially since he is already weary of strangers.

Moms just carry the kids thru. They won't let you go the the scanners. As long as you don't beep, no issue with pat downs.

greenmtbride · November 2010

From what I've read that scanners affect the surface layer of the skin, so there might not be an effect on your baby...although I haven't gone specifically looking for information on that. I am going to choose the pat down for several reasons.

1. Health concerns. I figure I can mentally prepare myself for the groping and just deal.

2. To be a pain in the ass for TSA and to protest the scanners. I think the more people who submit to the more obviously invasive pat downs, the more this issue will stay in the spotlight and hopefully be addressed/changed.

I plan to allow my son to be pat down at Christmas (if they even bother with children) because I don't think he will experience it as any different than the manhandling he gets all day long as I change his clothes/diapers, wipe his nose, pick him up, haul him around, etc. I hope that his diaper will protect his private area. I would be a lot more concerned if he was older, but I still think I would choose the pat down (and just try to talk to him to prepare him for it) over the possible health concerns...I am hoping more scientists will weigh in about the health risks.

coribecca · November 2010

When we took the kids on vacation a few months ago, the San Diego airport had them and I was intending to refuse to go through them. They didn't even ask us to go through; they diverted us through a regular metal detector. I'm assuming it's because we had small children. Hopefully you'll have that option.

greenmtbride · November 2010

Nancy_Drew:
I went thru them while PG. They have had them in Salt Lake for years. No biggie. That one is different th an the one at SeaTac though... Here inn Seattle, they only have 1 and it's on the B gate. If you go to another security checkpoint, you won't even have to worry about it. Also, the scanner is only 1 particular lane out of 8-10 at ech security checkpoint. If you don't want to go the, just don't get into that lane. You can choose which lane you get into once you pass the person that checks your boarding pass and ID. (usually the shortest for me!) Even if you do get in the scanner line, there is a regular metal detector right next to it so even if your carry ons go thru the the scanner next to the body scanner, if there is someone in it and the other walk thru is open, they will flag you to go thru that instead. This happened to me last week. I fly every other week and I have yet to go thru the on here in Seattle and only 1x had to go thru the one at Salt Lake even though I was there 3x a month. So basically, at this point they are totally optional, just get in a different lane and you won't Have to worry about it.

oh my gosh, I love you for posting this. I had not heard anyone's first hand account of SeaTac...this give me hope that we can just avoid the situation altogether.

pinktulips · November 2010

KNemo:
Does anyone know the protocol for patting down a baby/toddler? We are flying on December 4th. I don't want to go through the scanners, but I also don't want my child molested by an overzealous TSA agent! Especially since he is already weary of strangers.

Exactly. I have yet to find a source that says how they handle a pat down of a minor.

I do know that you can't carry your kiddo's through the scanner, and TSA can't hold them for you, so you will most likely be diverted. You will get the pat down if you set of the metal detectors.

MrsH_08 · November 2010

Nancy_Drew:
I went thru them while PG. They have had them in Salt Lake for years. No biggie. That one is different th an the one at SeaTac though... Here inn Seattle, they only have 1 and it's on the B gate. If you go to another security checkpoint, you won't even have to worry about it. Also, the scanner is only 1 particular lane out of 8-10 at ech security checkpoint. If you don't want to go the, just don't get into that lane. You can choose which lane you get into once you pass the person that checks your boarding pass and ID. (usually the shortest for me!) Even if you do get in the scanner line, there is a regular metal detector right next to it so even if your carry ons go thru the the scanner next to the body scanner, if there is someone in it and the other walk thru is open, they will flag you to go thru that instead. This happened to me last week. I fly every other week and I have yet to go thru the on here in Seattle and only 1x had to go thru the one at Salt Lake even though I was there 3x a month. So basically, at this point they are totally optional, just get in a different lane and you won't Have to worry about it.

Even if I can avoid the one at SeaTac, I believe O'Hare also has them. So, I need to be prepared with what I want to do.

Lauri - Have you read this blog entry? It was referenced in a couple of articles I was reading on this topic. This guy wrote about the experience he had being pulled out of line for the metal detector and told he had to do the scanner or pat-down, at the San Diego airport. After refusing, and lots of further bs from TSA, he had to leave the airport. So, it's possible, they are pulling people out of the metal detector line at random. My luck, that'd be me. That's happened with random luggage checks and carry-on checks for me.

Here's the blog entry

MrsH_08 · November 2010

koosh ball:
If I have to, i'll pick the pat down. I'll take the groping to the radiation. Yes, it has been said that its less radiation than 15 minutes in the sun but i don't trust them. I also don't ant pictures of me x-rayed anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25 software bugs can be bad.
Edit: I am not pregnant but still won't go through it.

Yikes! Yeah, I don't get why they are using a form of technology not fully tested. One article I read had a scientist stating that a lot of study needed to be done on the x-ray scan. I guess travelers are their guinea pigs.

Washington Woman · November 2010

I went through the scanners when flying out of SeaTac last week. My doc says you get more radiation from using your cell phone than from using these scanners. It is a random selection and it did take a few minutes while the scan is reviewed and then they have to radio to someone that you are clear.

I really have no fear of "overzealous TSA" agents. They are there to do their job, I'm not sure why they get a reputation for wanting to make our lives difficult. It is the process that is difficult - it is like calling a customer service place and blaming an "overzealous" operator for not being able to do what you want, even if they are just following policy. I fly quite a bit and have never had an issue with any TSA agent, either while pregnant or not, even the few times I've had to be pat down.

pearly1 · November 2010

Washington Woman:
I went through the scanners when flying out of SeaTac last week. My doc says you get more radiation from using your cell phone than from using these scanners. It is a random selection and it did take a few minutes while the scan is reviewed and then they have to radio to someone that you are clear.
I really have no fear of "overzealous TSA" agents. They are there to do their job, I'm not sure why they get a reputation for wanting to make our lives difficult. It is the process that is difficult - it is like calling a customer service place and blaming an "overzealous" operator for not being able to do what you want, even if they are just following policy. I fly quite a bit and have never had an issue with any TSA agent, either while pregnant or not, even the few times I've had to be pat down.

Here is a letter from UCSF scientists concerning the difference in radiation between these machines and the other exposures it has been compared too.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/35498347/UCSF-letter-to-Holdren-concerning-health-risks-of-full-body-scanner-TSA-screenings-4-6-2010

And here is just one woman's experience in one airport. It was really disturbing for me to read, and while the TSA agent wasn't following policy, it goes to show: these agents won't necessarily follow policy. And where does that put you?

https://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assault.html

Finally, here is how one passenger took a stand and convinced his fellow travelers to do the same:

https://blog.izs.me/post/1591805056/tsa-success-story

I am so disturbed by this whole situation. Glad we decided not to fly to Newark for Christmas.

CDMay2006 · November 2010

Mama_v2.0:
...
It would seem we just created ourselves a terrorist weapon.

What do you mean?

Seattle_JiLLn · November 2010

KNemo:
Does anyone know the protocol for patting down a baby/toddler? We are flying on December 4th. I don't want to go through the scanners, but I also don't want my child molested by an overzealous TSA agent! Especially since he is already weary of strangers.

THis is what scares me too. I'm not sure I'm happy with the radiation on a baby, but no way am I telling my kids that it's sometimes ok for a stranger to grope them.

CDMay2006 · November 2010

Seattle_JiLLn:
KNemo:
Does anyone know the protocol for patting down a baby/toddler? We are flying on December 4th. I don't want to go through the scanners, but I also don't want my child molested by an overzealous TSA agent! Especially since he is already weary of strangers.
THis is what scares me too. I'm not sure I'm happy with the radiation on a baby, but no way am I telling my kids that it's sometimes ok for a stranger to grope them.

Right! I am not sure i am even comfortable with it for my own body, with a female agent, and i am comfortable with my boundaries and understanding of what is appropriate for them to be doing to my body for the purpose of security.
With an infant i would be more comfortable with the pat down than the xray, but older than 5 or 6 months and i would be less comfortable, but a toddler, or older? No way -- too much confusion for them re: adult trust and appropriate touching.

Concerns about x-rays aside, I would feel much more comfortable with the image side of things if the people viewing it were visible to the general public at the airport. I get that they want to provide privacy, but one or two people in an isolated room is creepier than those working under public scrutiny. Instead, they could be in a plexiglas room, with screening around the monitor, but where their actions are fully visible.

pearly1 · November 2010

CDMay2006:
Mama_v2.0:
...
It would seem we just created ourselves a terrorist weapon.
What do you mean?

Dangit, stupid bump keeps eating my replies.

First of all, I think if the new measures deter anyone from flying, score 1 for the terrorists.

Secondly, using the definition of terrorism as "a surprise attack involving the deliberate use of violence against civilian noncombatants," I would consider that the random screening of civilian noncombatant airline passengers, whether it be the through the use of under-tested radiation machines or by being subjected to invasive hand-to-genital searches, to be violent. The terrorists have gained a new weapon: the TSA.

CDMay2006 · November 2010

pearly1:
CDMay2006:
Mama_v2.0:
...
It would seem we just created ourselves a terrorist weapon.
What do you mean?
Dangit, stupid bump keeps eating my replies.
First of all, I think if the new measures deter anyone from flying, score 1 for the terrorists.
Secondly, using the definition of terrorism as "a surprise attack involving the deliberate use of violence against civilian noncombatants," I would consider that the random screening of civilian noncombatant airline passengers, whether it be the through the use of under-tested radiation machines or by being subjected to invasive hand-to-genital searches, to be violent. The terrorists have gained a new weapon: the TSA.

I don't consider it violent, but I can appreciate your qualification as such. When one's own government is engaging in the "terrorism," though, it's oppression and tyranny and systemic chaos...
Do you know (i don't and haven't been able to figure out) the process of TSA decision making (including what is allowable and necessitated) and accountability. What can we do as citizens, to voice our concerns and have them comprehensively addressed?

MrsH_08 · November 2010

CDMay2006:
Concerns about x-rays aside, I would feel much more comfortable with the image side of things if the people viewing it were visible to the general public at the airport. I get that they want to provide privacy, but one or two people in an isolated room is creepier than those working under public scrutiny. Instead, they could be in a plexiglas room, with screening around the monitor, but where their actions are fully visible.

Totally agree! There's a creepiness factor about the fact that this person is in a private room viewing these images. I wouldn't want everyone to see it, but I like the idea of an open glass room with the monitor screened off.

OK, off to check the links Anne posted.

MrsH_08 · November 2010

OK, just got caught up with all the links in this thread. I'm definitely opting out. I kind of want to opt out of travel, to be honest, b/c I don't like choosing between potentially cancer-causing naked pictures or being sexually assaulted. But I can't just stop traveling b/c of it. So, I'll probably be opting for the grope session, if I'm faced with the full body scanner.

The one thing I haven't found, yet, is whether they feel up your privates above or beneath clothing. That one female blogger's account sounded like it was under her clothes. I'm gonna keep looking so I know what to expect.

Ugh!

Seattle_JiLLn · November 2010

pearly1:
Washington Woman:

I went through the scanners when flying out of SeaTac last week. My doc says you get more radiation from using your cell phone than from using these scanners. It is a random selection and it did take a few minutes while the scan is reviewed and then they have to radio to someone that you are clear.

I really have no fear of "overzealous TSA" agents. They are there to do their job, I'm not sure why they get a reputation for wanting to make our lives difficult. It is the process that is difficult - it is like calling a customer service place and blaming an "overzealous" operator for not being able to do what you want, even if they are just following policy. I fly quite a bit and have never had an issue with any TSA agent, either while pregnant or not, even the few times I've had to be pat down.

Here is a letter from UCSF scientists concerning the difference in radiation between these machines and the other exposures it has been compared too.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/35498347/UCSF-letter-to-Holdren-concerning-health-risks-of-full-body-scanner-TSA-screenings-4-6-2010

And here is just one woman's experience in one airport. It was really disturbing for me to read, and while the TSA agent wasn't following policy, it goes to show: these agents won't necessarily follow policy. And where does that put you?

https://www.ourlittlechatterboxes.com/2010/11/tsa-sexual-assault.html

Finally, here is how one passenger took a stand and convinced his fellow travelers to do the same:

https://blog.izs.me/post/1591805056/tsa-success-story

I am so disturbed by this whole situation. Glad we decided not to fly to Newark for Christmas.

Thank you Anne for compiling this! I just sent an email to the Chairman of this committee including all of those links!

https://hillwho.com/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=10&sobi2Id=5651

CinemaGoddess · November 2010

MrsH_08:

OK, just got caught up with all the links in this thread. I'm definitely opting out. I kind of want to opt out of travel, to be honest, b/c I don't like choosing between potentially cancer-causing naked pictures or being sexually assaulted. But I can't just stop traveling b/c of it. So, I'll probably be opting for the grope session, if I'm faced with the full body scanner.

The one thing I haven't found, yet, is whether they feel up your privates above or beneath clothing. That one female blogger's account sounded like it was under her clothes. I'm gonna keep looking so I know what to expect.

Ugh!

If you have the time, there's always the train. Unless you're travelling off the continent.

Seattle_JiLLn · November 2010

MrsH_08:

OK, just got caught up with all the links in this thread. I'm definitely opting out. I kind of want to opt out of travel, to be honest, b/c I don't like choosing between potentially cancer-causing naked pictures or being sexually assaulted. But I can't just stop traveling b/c of it. So, I'll probably be opting for the grope session, if I'm faced with the full body scanner.

The one thing I haven't found, yet, is whether they feel up your privates above or beneath clothing. That one female blogger's account sounded like it was under her clothes. I'm gonna keep looking so I know what to expect.

Ugh!

NOOOOOOO... you are clothed. they do not go into your clothes. they do feel inside the waistband of your pants though. Now I don't know what they woudl do if you are wearing a dress though.

MrsH_08 · November 2010

Well, glad I'll be clothed, at least. :-p

Just found this article and video showing a man going through both the pat-down and scanner options, just for the article. They also show the viewing room and mention that the TSA agent in that room is not allowed to bring anything in with him/her. They also claim not to save the images for any length of time. We know that isn't necessarily true.

https://www.farecompare.com/articles/airline-industry-news/airport-security-holiday-travel/

Looks like I may be getting groped at the airport for Christmas... twice! That wasn't on my list.

N.CarolinaGirl · November 2010

I figured out that the train would take five days each way to travel. Yuck. If it weren't Christmas, I'd probably postpone travel until people get some sense in their heads about these.

I'm just sickened by all of this. I've written our senators and our congressman and I've been posting articles on facebook so others can be aware.

It's supposed to be a modified pat down for children under 12. But can you imagine a 13 year old going through this?!? And what about the TSA agent in Tennessee that had a 3 year old going ballistic during pat down?

https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfmoms/detail?entry_id=77140

I've read from different sources that in some pat downs, they are actually going into the clothing - down the pants, up the skirt, under the bra edge by the underwire. To me, that sounds like a TSA agent either on a power trip or poorly trained. I hope that our government hasn't decided that those acts are appropriate.

Oh, and btw, every machine is equipped to be able to record the images on a hard drive (hacking, anyone?), supposedly for "training purposes".

https://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20012583-281.html

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