Holiday Schedule

ct7878 · November 2010

I am hoping that I might be able to get some insight on others situation with in trying to develop a holiday schedule. My DH has joint custody of the children, however, BM is the primary residential parent. My DH has no CO that addresses holidays with children (11 and 6). In the past, time has always been worked out verbally among them. However this year, BM took the children for Easter, July 4 and now told us she will be heading out of the country from Dec 22- Jan 3 (so we will not see them during the holidays at all!). Our normal visitation with the children is every weekend (F,Sat,Sun). DH and I are extremely close with both children. This relationship is strong enough that BM has expressed strong jealously of my relationship with the kids as they have recently both started to state that they want to live with us full-time. This is making our relationship somewhat contentious. For the sake of the kids, we want to try to keep the peace. However, lately she is taking more and more, and is not willing to compromise. Likewise, the children are getting upset with the arrangement.

We have asked BM if she would agree to a holiday schedule with EOY alternating pattern and stated that she was not. She stated that as she is the primary residential parent she could make these decisions and all but implied that we are lucky we get to see them when we do. Lately, we are feeling like she has adopted that attitude that these are her children and hers alone. DH and I are simply babysitters that free up her weekends! She appears to have no recognition that the children spend 3 days a week with us and we have created a family (DH and I have been married for 5 years). We hate to go down the road of a court order but it would appear that we are at that point. Has anyone had to go back to get a CO around holidays? Was it hard to obtain? Is this something that could be easily handled or are we going to be looking at a long drawn out battle? We live in Florida. We are not really looking to change our current custody arrangement, we just want to work this component out. Please know that any experience or information you could share would be much appreciated :-)

mom2one · November 2010

I think a court order around holidays would be very easy to get as it is standard for MOST court orders.

Erin0922 · November 2010

Is the EW visitation in the CO? If so, am I incorrect in assuming that if there is nothing set aside specifically for holidays, she at least has to adhere to that? Because Christmas (24, 25, 26) fall on a weekend, as will New Years (31, 1, 2). So I would assume that those holidays are rightfully yours this year by default anyways, and that even as custodial parent, she wouldn't be able to supercede CO, just because it is a holiday.

(am I thinking this right? Anyone jump in!)

Either way, yes, you should be able to get holidays put in a CO fairly easily. Ours switches off even/odd years.

Mrs.H. · November 2010

I'd find out details of the trip and be at the departure point at the given time. THere is NO WAY she should be able to take them out of the country w/out his permission....who is to say she will return????

Ilumine · November 2010

I really do not see an issue here. If Holidays are not addressed in the Visitation part of the Custody agreement, then the fall back would be that you will still have them on the weekend.

Right????

And doesn't your court order address taking the kids out the country?

So let the BM know that you will be picking up the kids at your regularly scheduled time on Friday, December 24th and will be returning the kids on Sunday, December 26th.

Then, contact your lawyer to makes sure that he/she knows that the BM is going to break the legal CO and take the kids out of the country without your DH's permission.

And have your DH stand firm on this, because that is the ONLY way you are going to get her to work out an actual schedule that can THEN be made formal.

hterry85 · November 2010

I agree with everyone above. Getting holidays into a co shouldn't be a problem. There's a good chance you'd never even end up in court.

Erin made a good point about the weekends. If the weekend time is a part of a current co, but holidays are not, then Christmas is all yours this year.

Do the kids already had passports? She shouldn't be able to get them without your DHs ok.

ballmom · November 2010

I also want to add that each state should have a set of Parenting Guidelines if something is not spelled out in the CO. You should search those guidelines and ask your attorney if those apply since your CO does not state holidays. I would also ask that s/he enters a motion to have holidays added ASAP so you get equal time.

If they do not have passports yet, DH has to sign off saying it is ok they have one. If they already have one, he can ask the court to impound the passport (have seen this done on another board I visit). I also believe he has to give her a notarized letter giving her permission to travel with the children outside of the US.

ETA: this is what I found for a few counties in FL on a general guideline: https://www.jud10.org/AdministrativeOrders/orders/Section5/Apps5-20.3/5-20-3.app4.pdf

karatechrissy · November 2010

get it in your CO. Do this before the holidays. I see what everyone is saying, but what is going to stop her from just up and leaving anyway? (unless they don't already have passports, in this case she can't leave the country because as stated, she needs his permission for them to get passports) If her mentality is 'these are my kids and I allow you to see them', make sure you get the point across that these are DH's children as well, and that he will not lay down and take whatever she insists uppon. Also, let her know if she doesn't adhere to the CO (especially as it stands now you get christmas and new years) that you will be seeking legal action. You can't lay down and take this. She is assuming her position as the end all be all. Your husband has a say as well, they are his children too.

ct7878 · November 2010

Thank you all for the quick responses! They are much appreciated. Unfortunately, the current verbiage in the current CO (established in 2005) states that the children will have visitation with DH on Fri, Sat or Sun except when vacation with their mother!!! I have no idea why he agreed to this, other than that she is a teacher and originally from Canada so over the summer she does take the children for two week to visit family (we are understanding of this trip). I know that this was what he thought he was consenting too, however, since it is written they way that it is...she does appear to hold the cards. They kids do have passport, both American and Canadian (I believe that legal you are only supposed to have one or the other, but it is my understanding that they do have both). I believe that when she travels she uses their PP's to get around any challenges or having notification.

I guess it is time to get an attorney...we have been down this road once before when she wanted more CS. In the end we spent over 8K in legal fees. While the judgment was ruled in our favor that nothing more was owed, it just seemed like such a waste and it was a long battle. I am hoping that this might be a fight, as it would really appear that a holiday schedule should be part of any CO.

fellesferie · November 2010

Every time she takes them out of the country, she's running the risk that someone will ask her for proof that she has their father's permission to travel with them.

I've never been asked to produce anything, but it could happen.

It sounds like you don't really have a leg to stand on until the CO is amended.

Her attitude sounds super crappy, though, so I hope you guys manage to get it taken of soon!!

aggy34 · November 2010

I know exactly what you are dealing with I think we have the same BM. We went through the same thing last year. BM threw a fit because we wanted SD for Christmas Eve for a few hours since he had not had her for any holidays last year. It finally took DH taking her to mediation, which is the first step in Wisconsin, for her to agree to a holiday schedule and a formal EOW shedule which we had been doing but wasn't in writing. When she was first served with the mediation papers she tried to tell DH that he had no rights to SD and she was "just being nice" by letting him spend time with her. The mediator even told her if she wanted to fight it she would loose because he was asking for the minimum and a judge would likely give DH more time then what he was asking for. Needless to say we got everything we were asking for and more. I highly recommend taking her to court and fast, get a schedule in writing if there isn't one that spells out holidays and weekend time. Our BM hates it that SD loves being here and has gone as far as punishing her for saying I am her stepmom. Good luck!

FutureMrsDrew73110 · November 2010

our BM has tried denying us holidays even when the CO says they are ours. We file a petition and go back to court.(done this 3 times in the last 2 years) As long as you aren't asking for anything out in left field (Which you aren't) The judge will be glad to set up an arrangement. As far as the traveling out of the country, I know that when DH and I asked to take the kids to Canada, for a day trip, we had to get a written letter that was notarized by BOTH parents stating that they are the parents of said children and that BM gives permission for DH to take the children out of the country on X date. make sure the date(s) of the trip are in there so she can't use the letter more than once.

If I were you I'd be filing a petition TODAY! If I did my research correctly this is the form you should print and fill out.https://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/family/forms_rules/905a.pdf

in the part 3 is where I'd put that BM is planning on taking the children out of the country without DH's approval from X date to X date. this would mean that the children won't be able to see DH for the Holidays.

in part 4 put what you would like for an arranged holiday schedule.include all holidays you would like an arrangement for now so you don't run into this at another point. (from personal experience it is best if it is laid out in the most simplest terms. Include exact dates and times. Ours reads for christmas "The mother will have the children from 10am until 10:30pm on Christmas eve in Even years. The father will have the children from 10:30pm on Christmas eve until 10:30pm on Christmas day in even years. This schedule shall reverse in Odd years." It is written out like this for each holiday, because as I said before BM always tries to deny us even though we have a court order stating dates and times)

Then in part 5 where it asks about how this would be best for the children put something like it will benefit the children because it is best for them to be able to see ALL of their family during the holidays.

I hope this helps. Good Luck!!

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