WWYD - Family refusing to get vaccines

ktwilley · September 2010

Some people in my family, who will be staying with us for a few weeks after LO arrives, are refusing to get the flu and pertussis vaccines due to "bad reactions" from vaccines in the past. I personally think this is a load of you know what, but would you ban them from holding/visiting/touching LO/staying with you altogether?

Thanks!

sillypit · September 2010

I told my family that if they didn't get the vaccines they could not come to the hospital or stay with us. My LO's health isn't worth it.

mama_cito95 · September 2010

sillypit:
I told my family that if they didn't get the vaccines they could not come to the hospital or stay with us. My LO's health isn't worth it.

Agreed. I'm planning to ban people and already gave out warnings about my plans. If they cannot prove that they have at least the pertussis vaccine/booster, then to plan on not seeing LO until after his 6 month shots.

danssugahbugah · September 2010

You are the mommy! You have the benefit/stress of making decisions on your LO's behalf. You can make your family get the vaccines, but they can't make you allow them to be around your LO either.

What was so bad about their reactions? Redness, swelling or even fatigue would be well worth it to be around a brand new member of the family IMO.

lulu3061 · September 2010

Sorry, but there are some things that just aren't worth messing with. If they won't vaccinate they can stay elsewhere and wait to hold LO until he/she is vaccinated.

Mjmksb04 · September 2010

The flu shot wouldn't bother me. Do you mean pertussis booster for the adults? If there aren't outbreaks of pertussis near me, I wouldn't be too worried about that as long as the children have been vaccinated. I would obviously not let anyone who is obviously sick or with a cold hold the baby, and I don't usually even let kids around the baby.

1BabyFritsch · September 2010

You cannot force people to get he flu shot. You can ak them but honestly there is no need for people to get the flu shot as long as they are wahing there hands before holding the baby. I am not DEMANDING people have shots since 1 I have only ever gotten the fu shot once and had such a bad reaction I ended up in the hospital. 2 I think its kinda B*tchy and you will seem like one of THOSE moms. and 3 you demanding they have them is like telling them they dont know the best way to take care of themselves and that they would delibritley put your child in harms way

jenj542 · September 2010

Hey how about instead of bossing everyone else around, you get the shots yourself and breastfeed your baby.

djfacemachine · September 2010

jenj542:
Hey how about instead of bossing everyone else around, you get the shots yourself and breastfeed your baby.

Yes

MSC03 · September 2010

At the risk of agreeing somewhat with altiermethod, you sound like a nutjob, forcing everyone to get flu shots.

I mean, if someone is sick, don't let them hold the baby.

pinkiemo · September 2010

We respectfully requested that all family members coming to town to see the baby (they all live out of state) get the tdap and flu shots, they all agreed with no problems. That said, had they not agreed I probably would have let the flu go. However, the people coming from areas with whooping cough outbreaks I would not allow them to stay with us or hold the baby unless they had the tdap booster. If it's not worth it to them it's not worth it to me.

8yearslater · September 2010

Here's my take:

I don't care if you die from the flu or pertussis. Really. That's your choice, and as a family member, I sorta have to respect one's personal choice. So here I am, being as respectful as I can. Your life, your choice.

But I have a greater responsibility to my daughter, who is too young to safely receive the vaccines. So I'll respect their wishes not to get vaccinated and they can respect mine regarding keeping my child safe. They can choose if they want to reconsider and get the shot, or if waiting 6 to 8 months is acceptable. Their choice. I feel no guilt about this whatsoever.

This also goes for anyone visiting who has family members who are sick with anything. Last year, DH and I hosted a family holiday event. Three members from one family came. The mother didn't. Why? "She's been throwing up for 2 days-- some kind of stomach virus." Really? And you think you're not going to catch it, living in the same house as her? Thanks for coming to our party and hugging and kissing us hello. Please leave.

What people can't get through their heads is that communicable diseases are often the most contageous BEFORE THE INFECTED ARE OBVIOUSLY SYMPTOMATIC! Whooping cough is particularly bad like this-- infected people are most contageous in the two days before they start coughing.

And here's something else maybe people refuse to acknowledge-- We live in a highly mobile society. The person in line ahead of you at the grocery store might just be back from a trip somewhere, say California where 9 babies have already died from whooping cough. They use the keypad to ring up their credit card, and then you touch it. Same could be true of grandparents coming in from Boca Raton. They're in an airport, mixing it up with people coming from godknowswhere. Sure, they all look and sound fine, TODAY, but in two days, they're hacking up a lung and your child is in ICU and on her way to heaven.

The flu works the same way. Sneezing is a great way to spread it, but people can be contageous and not really feel sick ahead of time.

Ignorance about basic epidemiology is inexcuseable when it comes to stuff like this. Really.

pinkiemo · September 2010

jenj542:
Hey how about instead of bossing everyone else around, you get the shots yourself and breastfeed your baby.

That isn't going to protect the baby from potentially fatal whooping cough.

samanthastanford632 · September 2010

Yes, it is IF you get the vaccine.

pinkiemo · September 2010

samanthastanford632:
Yes, it is IF you get the vaccine.

If you're talking about breastfeeding, then no, it isn't. You can pass on some anitbodies (and macrophages) to your LO via breastmilk, but it in no way completely protects them, especially from pertussis. Breastfed babies have been contracting it too.

samanthastanford632 · September 2010

pinkiemo:

samanthastanford632:
Yes, it is IF you get the vaccine.

If you're talking about breastfeeding, then no, it isn't. You can pass on some anitbodies (and macrophages) to your LO via breastmilk, but it in no way completely protects them, especially from pertussis. Breastfed babies have been contracting it too.

I am talking about breastfeeding, and yes it does. You have to get the vaccine and the protection is passed on.

pinkiemo · September 2010

samanthastanford632:
pinkiemo:

samanthastanford632:
Yes, it is IF you get the vaccine.

If you're talking about breastfeeding, then no, it isn't. You can pass on some anitbodies (and macrophages) to your LO via breastmilk, but it in no way completely protects them, especially from pertussis. Breastfed babies have been contracting it too.

I am talking about breastfeeding, and yes it does. You have to get the vaccine and the protection is passed on.

Meh, isn't worth fighting with you. If you want to believe that then fine, I'll do what I think is best for my baby.

8yearslater · September 2010

OMG-- does anybody read anything published by any medical authority anymore, or has everyone been drinking the Jenny McCarthy Kool-Aid where vaccines are the devil and the government is a bunch of big brother muslim-loving commies in disguise, taking our taxes with the secret plan to enslave us all through mental impairment caused by the vaccines they're promoting purely for the interests of big business?

For chrissakes...

Breastmilk contains SOME antibodies. It's enough to provide SOME protection for a LITTLE BIT of time. If breastmilk was the the magical elixir of immune defense, we'd never need to be vaccinated for anything because we could just slurp up some boobjuice and be protected against everything, forever more, Amen.

If breastmilk is the answer, then it's f'ing AMAZING that most of the 3rd world suffers from horrible diseases we've eradicated. At one time, the WHO had vaccination programs for at least some of the populations over there. One would think that if you're living in a grass hut somewhere, your choices for feeding your baby are breastmilk and.... breastmilk, and 'lo and behold, polio, diptheria, pertussis, and a host of other disgusting diseases run rampant.

Breastmilk is good for many reasons, and the antibodies kick-start a baby's immune system, priming it so that it's not completely shocked by the universe of viruses the little one is going to encounter. People still need vaccines and boosters, though, because it takes more than a hint for the immune system to figure out how to combat really powerful and deadly infection. Like pertussis.

@ everyone who says the OP is being bossy. Like I said, I don't think she is. She has a position-- no vaccine, no visit. Sounds fair to me. How's this any more unreasonable than a woman who insists on having her sister in the delivery room instead of her mother (or any of the other WWYD posts about personal choice)? Is it because it's about a vaccine and The Man? Gimme a break.

samanthastanford632 · September 2010

pinkiemo:
samanthastanford632:
pinkiemo:

samanthastanford632:
Yes, it is IF you get the vaccine.

If you're talking about breastfeeding, then no, it isn't. You can pass on some anitbodies (and macrophages) to your LO via breastmilk, but it in no way completely protects them, especially from pertussis. Breastfed babies have been contracting it too.

I am talking about breastfeeding, and yes it does. You have to get the vaccine and the protection is passed on.

Meh, isn't worth fighting with you. If you want to believe that then fine, I'll do what I think is best for my baby.

A mother passes her antibodies to her baby through breastmilk.

arissachic · September 2010

Why does everyone insist on posting flu vacc posts every fricken day? It is such a stupid debate because you will never convince people that are on either side to belive what you belive.

I would like to add that people that are not letting family members see the baby until they are vaccinated are being completely ridiculous.

Get over yourself ....

pinkiemo · September 2010

samanthastanford632:
pinkiemo:
samanthastanford632:
pinkiemo:

samanthastanford632:
Yes, it is IF you get the vaccine.

If you're talking about breastfeeding, then no, it isn't. You can pass on some anitbodies (and macrophages) to your LO via breastmilk, but it in no way completely protects them, especially from pertussis. Breastfed babies have been contracting it too.

I am talking about breastfeeding, and yes it does. You have to get the vaccine and the protection is passed on.

Meh, isn't worth fighting with you. If you want to believe that then fine, I'll do what I think is best for my baby.

A mother passes her antibodies to her baby through breastmilk.

Yeah it's called passive immunity, I'm not arguing it. However, it doesn't work for every disease, bacteria or virus. Protection from passive immunity is not as strong for polio, pertussis, etc. as it is for others. Telling her to breastfeed and not worry about it is wrong. Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make your point.

*KC*luvs*RJ* · September 2010

I would kindly let them know that without those vaccines, during the peak of flu season, they would not be allowed to stay with us. Your LO is vulnerable to those illnesses, and LO's health is far more important than their issue with getting vaccinated because they "had a bad reaction" in the past.

I think I would allow them to visit, but they would also not be allowed to hold LO at all. I'm sorry, but Pertussis is nothing to mess with.

neurda · September 2010

I have asked my immediate family if they wouldn?t mind getting it and explained why. I offered to pay for it if there is a cost for family members that I know money might be tight for. But I am not making it mandatory. Of course I will have everyone wash their hands before touching the baby and if they are sick they will have to stay away. I think it is a bit tyrannical to insist upon a flu shot before seeing your baby.

ktwilley · September 2010

jenj542:
Hey how about instead of bossing everyone else around, you get the shots yourself and breastfeed your baby.

I just got the flu shot at my 34 week appointment, and I plan to get the booster, but not until after LO is born. I do plan to BF.

Matilda7 · September 2010

I think that you can do what you feel is right for your baby. Some family members think newer (as in not 30-years old) safety standards for cribs are ridiculous, etc. No one should insist upon staying with you if they are not willing to play by your rules. Regardless of what side other people are on regarding the vaccine and this dilemma - it is your home and your baby. I think I read that after 1-2 of the vaccinations, the baby would be sufficiently protected (don't quote me - I did not pay close attention to these details). Perhaps you could ask people to wait until the baby is a little bit older to have houseguests. I understand your dilemma, however. I would rather err on the side of being more cautious than careless with huge regrets.

As for those who insist upon the breastmilk passing pertussis immunities, I suggest doing more research. I spent a good 45 minutes looking things up and all I came up with is that it is entirely inconclusive whether or not immunities are passed on in this fashion. In fact, there is a university in Canada that is currently working on a study to determine whether or not an infant is protected at all if the mother receives the immunization during the third trimester... https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00553228. The vaccine is recommended for mothers for the same reason as it is for fathers/caregivers/etc - so that they do not contract the illness and pass it along to their child. Also, my guess is that if there was conclusive evidence that a breastfed child would be immune to the illness, then the vaccinations wouldn't be required at all for infants who are breastfed, or would only be required after the mom ceases breastfeeding.

longingtoholdher2010 · September 2010

We aren't getting the pertussis or flu shots. I have never gotten a flu shot and I have never had the flu either. I am generally a very healthy person, I can't remember the last time I got sick. We also never got the all to much hyped up "h1n1" vaccine either. It's up to you whether or not you want to let them visit LO, you certainly can't force someone to get vaccinated though. We just don't do vaccines, never have probably never will.

longingtoholdher2010 · September 2010

8yearslater:
Here's my take:

I don't care if you die from the flu or pertussis. Really. That's your choice, and as a family member, I sorta have to respect one's personal choice. So here I am, being as respectful as I can. Your life, your choice.

But I have a greater responsibility to my daughter, who is too young to safely receive the vaccines. So I'll respect their wishes not to get vaccinated and they can respect mine regarding keeping my child safe. They can choose if they want to reconsider and get the shot, or if waiting 6 to 8 months is acceptable. Their choice. I feel no guilt about this whatsoever.

This also goes for anyone visiting who has family members who are sick with anything. Last year, DH and I hosted a family holiday event. Three members from one family came. The mother didn't. Why? "She's been throwing up for 2 days-- some kind of stomach virus." Really? And you think you're not going to catch it, living in the same house as her? Thanks for coming to our party and hugging and kissing us hello. Please leave.

What people can't get through their heads is that communicable diseases are often the most contageous BEFORE THE INFECTED ARE OBVIOUSLY SYMPTOMATIC! Whooping cough is particularly bad like this-- infected people are most contageous in the two days before they start coughing.

And here's something else maybe people refuse to acknowledge-- We live in a highly mobile society. The person in line ahead of you at the grocery store might just be back from a trip somewhere, say California where 9 babies have already died from whooping cough. They use the keypad to ring up their credit card, and then you touch it. Same could be true of grandparents coming in from Boca Raton. They're in an airport, mixing it up with people coming from godknowswhere. Sure, they all look and sound fine, TODAY, but in two days, they're hacking up a lung and your child is in ICU and on her way to heaven.

The flu works the same way. Sneezing is a great way to spread it, but people can be contageous and not really feel sick ahead of time.

Ignorance about basic epidemiology is inexcuseable when it comes to stuff like this. Really.

You sound like a nut job. Why not just get a plastic bubble and keep your whole family in it, that way you can't breathe the outside air because it could be contaminated by other peoples air. whooooo ohhhh noooo. How do you think kids build up their immune systems and get any type of immunity at all? You can not keep them shrink wrapped in a little bubble their whole lives. Wash your hands and breastfeed, keep your home clean and You and LO will be fine.

mama_cito95 · September 2010

longingtoholdher2010:
8yearslater:

Here's my take:

I don't care if you die from the flu or pertussis. Really. That's your choice, and as a family member, I sorta have to respect one's personal choice. So here I am, being as respectful as I can. Your life, your choice.

But I have a greater responsibility to my daughter, who is too young to safely receive the vaccines. So I'll respect their wishes not to get vaccinated and they can respect mine regarding keeping my child safe. They can choose if they want to reconsider and get the shot, or if waiting 6 to 8 months is acceptable. Their choice. I feel no guilt about this whatsoever.

This also goes for anyone visiting who has family members who are sick with anything. Last year, DH and I hosted a family holiday event. Three members from one family came. The mother didn't. Why? "She's been throwing up for 2 days-- some kind of stomach virus." Really? And you think you're not going to catch it, living in the same house as her? Thanks for coming to our party and hugging and kissing us hello. Please leave.

What people can't get through their heads is that communicable diseases are often the most contageous BEFORE THE INFECTED ARE OBVIOUSLY SYMPTOMATIC! Whooping cough is particularly bad like this-- infected people are most contageous in the two days before they start coughing.

And here's something else maybe people refuse to acknowledge-- We live in a highly mobile society. The person in line ahead of you at the grocery store might just be back from a trip somewhere, say California where 9 babies have already died from whooping cough. They use the keypad to ring up their credit card, and then you touch it. Same could be true of grandparents coming in from Boca Raton. They're in an airport, mixing it up with people coming from godknowswhere. Sure, they all look and sound fine, TODAY, but in two days, they're hacking up a lung and your child is in ICU and on her way to heaven.

The flu works the same way. Sneezing is a great way to spread it, but people can be contageous and not really feel sick ahead of time.

Ignorance about basic epidemiology is inexcuseable when it comes to stuff like this. Really.

You sound like a nut job. Why not just get a plastic bubble and keep your whole family in it, that way you can't breathe the outside air because it could be contaminated by other peoples air. whooooo ohhhh noooo. How do you think kids build up their immune systems and get any type of immunity at all? You can not keep them shrink wrapped in a little bubble their whole lives. Wash your hands and breastfeed, keep your home clean and You and LO will be fine.

Dunno about in Colorado, but Pertussis is an epidemic here in California right now. Sevral thousand cases of whooping cough this year and so far 9 infants have died this year from the whooping cough-- all under the age of 2 months. One of those 9 had his 2 month shot, but it did not "kick" in in time, and he died 10 days after getting the shot from the whooping cough. I think moms in CA have a reason to be concerned. No, you can't force people to get vaccines or shots, but you can take precautions on behalf of your LO until they've gotten the shots.

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