Yes, I'm judging.

GenRN45 · September 2010

And I don't care if I'm going to hell for it.

I was lurking on IF and there's a girl who responded to a post about MFI d/t an unsuccessful vasectomy reversal and mentioned that he's infertile and how their only option is IVF. That pisses me off. that's a voluntary procedure that he had done to himself. It's SUPPOSED to do that, and unless you have a shitty relationship with your husband, you knew about it (and the uber low success rate of reversals) before you got married.

I have a really hard time garnering any sympathy for the situation.

I feel like the situation shouldn't be remotely in the same category as what some of the rest of us have gone through. I'm sorry you have to do IVF but voluntary infertility just isn't in the same category, IMO.

okay, vent over. Sorry if I'm offending anyone. It just really pissed me off.

laure1122 · September 2010

I had a friend who had 3 kids, then a vasectomy, then a divorce and is now with a 24 year old who wants to have kids one day, soon. I had to hear him boo-hooing about how he probably won't be able to have any more kids naturally bc of the vasectomy, even with a reversal. boo-friggin-hoo.

nikinikinine · September 2010

I'm not judging, as I have no opinion on this one way or the other, but if it were me, I'd post on TTGP and just lurk on IF for information. It does seem like two very different situations.

ginger67 · September 2010

"And if anyone has any questions they can feel free to PM her" I wonder if she can answer any questions about wheatgrass, FSH, dhea, D&C..... I guess I'm going to hell to ; )

schoolsoutbride · September 2010

Meh, I'm not too bothered by it. While she knew what she was getting into when she got married, that didn't change who she loved. I don't feel too bad for the guy, but I feel bad for her. From her perspective, it's not much different than, say, marrying a guy who had chemo in the past or something. It's still going to be a sucky IVF path (as I figure all IVF paths are sucky.)

CarrieB. · September 2010

I don't know. Its really not fair to think one person's IF is better or worse than the other person's.

ginger67 · September 2010

Chemo is not elective so I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who has to go the IVF path because of cancer. I agree with Niki, maybe she should be on another board. So many of us on the IF board went through hell with our own issues and MFI.

nikinikinine · September 2010

CarrieB.:
I don't know. Its really not fair to think one person's IF is better or worse than the other person's.

I don't think Gen was insinuating that one person's IF was better or worse - but that voluntary sterilization is not quite the same as someone who has been going through years of fertility treatments/problems involuntarily.

You have to admit that it's quite different.

Sure IVF and IF sucks for everyone, but 99% of the couples represented on that board did not choose to be where they are whether their fertility troubles were medically related (i.e. chemo, etc.) or just genetic.

This girl didn't go through a year of TTC on her own watching failed cycle after failed cycle while everyone else around her got pregnant. She didn't spend another six months to a year doing failed clomid/femara cycles, followed by failed injectibles cycles and come to IVF as a last resort option.

She just walked into a fertility clinic and said "my husband had a vasectomy and now we want to get pregnant" and was told to do a reversal and IVF.

Emotionally, I'm sorry, but it's different.

newsbaby · September 2010

I will judge right along with you. Although she could not help who she fell in love with and the fact that they have to do IVF to get pg sucks, its 2 entirely different things. Neither she or her DH suffer from INFERTILITY.

GenRN45 · September 2010

ginger67:
Chemo is not elective so I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who has to go the IVF path because of cancer.

this x infinity

and niki - thanks for knowing EXACTLY what I was saying.

gymnst1013 · September 2010

nikinikinine:

CarrieB.:
I don't know. Its really not fair to think one person's IF is better or worse than the other person's.

I don't think Gen was insinuating that one person's IF was better or worse - but that voluntary sterilization is not quite the same as someone who has been going through years of fertility treatments/problems involuntarily.

You have to admit that it's quite different.

Sure IVF and IF sucks for everyone, but 99% of the couples represented on that board did not choose to be where they are whether their fertility troubles were medically related (i.e. chemo, etc.) or just genetic.

This girl didn't go through a year of TTC on her own watching failed cycle after failed cycle while everyone else around her got pregnant. She didn't spend another six months to a year doing failed clomid/femara cycles, followed by failed injectibles cycles and come to IVF as a last resort option.

She just walked into a fertility clinic and said "my husband had a vasectomy and now we want to get pregnant" and was told to do a reversal and IVF.

Emotionally, I'm sorry, but it's different.

Very well put Niki. I agree entirely

juliannat · September 2010

I draw a parallel between this and a same-sex couple - they need ART but for different reasons than we do - and it's their right to be able to be able to access the procedures, etc.

That said, lurking a little bit more would be the tasteful thing to do.

Mrs.Kiltlifter · September 2010

kdodge423:
newsbaby:
I will judge right along with you. Although she could not help who she fell in love with and the fact that they have to do IVF to get pg sucks, its 2 entirely different things. Neither she or her DH suffer from INFERTILITY.

Technically, yes they do. They attempted a reversal, which was unsuccessful, meaning his ejaculate would have no sperm in it. Last time I checked, azoo was an infertile diagnosis. If someone had azoo due to an injury (say skatebaording when they were younger or something along those lines), that too was a choice to participate in said activity, so can they never claim IF as well?

Should she have lurked more and perhaps considered a different board? Sure. But to flat out say they don't have IF issues is not correct either.

I have to agree with Newsbaby and disagree with you KDodge, sorry. Azoo is due to a 1)Ejaculatory failure 2)Failure of spermatogenesis 3)Obstruction 4)Hypogonadotrophism. A vasectomy does not fall into either of those categories since there is no real obstruction and it is not a failure of ejaculation (it is no ejaculation by design). A Vasectomy is not classified as an obstruction. It is classified as a Vasectomy.

I would have traded spots with a person whose only concern is the reversal of a vasectomy or who has the option of IVF and yet still have a biological child with their spouse. So no, not really the same thing.

Yellow_Daisy · September 2010

Mrs.Kiltlifter:
kdodge423:
newsbaby:
I will judge right along with you. Although she could not help who she fell in love with and the fact that they have to do IVF to get pg sucks, its 2 entirely different things. Neither she or her DH suffer from INFERTILITY.

Technically, yes they do. They attempted a reversal, which was unsuccessful, meaning his ejaculate would have no sperm in it. Last time I checked, azoo was an infertile diagnosis. If someone had azoo due to an injury (say skatebaording when they were younger or something along those lines), that too was a choice to participate in said activity, so can they never claim IF as well?

Should she have lurked more and perhaps considered a different board? Sure. But to flat out say they don't have IF issues is not correct either.

I have to agree with Newsbaby and disagree with you KDodge, sorry. Azoo is due to a 1)Ejaculatory failure 2)Failure of spermatogenesis 3)Obstruction 4)Hypogonadotrophism. A vasectomy does not fall into either of those categories since there is no real obstruction and it is not a failure of ejaculation (it is no ejaculation by design). A Vasectomy is not classified as an obstruction. It is classified as a Vasectomy.
I would have traded spots with a person whose only concern is the reversal of a vasectomy or who has the option of IVF and yet still have a biological child with their spouse. So no, not really the same thing.

Thank you Mrs.Kiltlifter! A chromosomal defect caused my DH's azoo, not an elective surgery. Personally I am offended by someone comparing the hell we have been through and the loss of my DH's biological child to someone who voluntarily paid to make it so they wouldn't/couldn't have any more children.

Whether they are IF now because of his choices well honestly I don't know, but they are most certainly not azoo.

schoolsoutbride · September 2010

ginger67:
Chemo is not elective so I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who has to go the IVF path because of cancer. I agree with Niki, maybe she should be on another board. So many of us on the IF board went through hell with our own issues and MFI.

I agree with a difference for him, but for her it's really kind of similar, isn't it? She married someone who can't knock her up and now has to do IVF. It was voluntary for him, sure, but not for her.

I agree with the same-sex couple seeking ART comparison. They can ask questions on IF,right?

I didn't read the OP, though, so maybe the girl came off as a total douche?

The other person that comes to mind as a comparison was a woman who was quickly diagnosed with DOR and did DE IVF w/in maybe 9 months of TTC. That's a QUICK path, but I still think what she want through was tough.

miesl · September 2010

I'm right there with everyone.

It's self-induced infertility - and I'm not going to have a whole lot of sympathy for that.

Quizzle · September 2010

Here's the irony for me: I dated somebody before DH who'd had a vasectomy. It REALLY bothered me. He'd been divorced and said he got it 'because he didn't think the woman should have to do all the birth control' and that if he married somebody who wanted kids he'd 'just get it reversed.' Getting a vasectomy is pretty drastic to me and indicates you don't really want kids (and he had no kids with his ex wife.) But I can't really muster any ire for her, assuming he wasn't with her when he had it done. She had no control over that, and being bitter towards her is sort of counterproductive. Although yes, he should have thought it through.

Of course, then I married DH and we had to do IVF because of severe MFI.

crystalgirl · September 2010

schoolsoutbride:
Meh, I'm not too bothered by it. While she knew what she was getting into when she got married, that didn't change who she loved. I don't feel too bad for the guy, but I feel bad for her. From her perspective, it's not much different than, say, marrying a guy who had chemo in the past or something. It's still going to be a sucky IVF path (as I figure all IVF paths are sucky.)

I totally agree with this. And honestly, people can change their minds about whether they want to have kids, too. That doesn't make the struggle any less or the process any easier. We're all still after the same goal and not getting there in the way we hoped and expected.

crystalgirl · September 2010

You know, I really don't mean to pick on you, but I don't think it's fair to belittle someone else's struggle. Sure, I can be jealous of those who conceived with TI, or Clomid, or even IUI, when I have to do IVF, just as I'm sure those who've had to resort to donors are likely jealous of me. We all go through different things, but we're still all suffering and struggling. I don't think this is the place for competition or judgment. There is a long term member of these boards who is in almost the exact scenario as this new poster. I'm not going to call her out, but I dare anyone to say her failed IVFs have been any less of a struggle than anyone else's experience.

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