Worried About Kindergarten Behavior Already.

movinup · September 2010

My daughter just turned five and started kindergarten last week. She's extremely outgoing and is loves school. She's had two years of part time preschool and her teachers enjoyed her. But they said that she doesn't mind very well sometimes. She interrupts and doesn't want to come inside after recess and she flat out disregarded them the second to last day of class about that. (I have these problems at home too.) Now, she just got a note from the kindergarten teacher that she didn't come in from recess even after she called her name. The teacher made her sit on the grass for the second recess. I talked with DD about it and she pretty much does not care. I asked her how it felt to have to sit on the grass and she said she loved it...that she took a nap. (right) I took away tv privileges for the night and warned her that she wouldn't get a bedtime show or a treat any time the teacher gives me bad news. She screams and cries at the drop of a hat. Wines, tries to negotiate with me when I tell her just about anything. It seems like I have to yell for her to listen to me at all. She flat out will try to run away from me when I'm talking to her and if I grab her wrist she screams and cries and tells me I've "killed her". Has anyone else had this situation? We've never spanked, but taking away toys, privileges, treats just doesn't seem to work whatsoever. Also, positive reinforcement like her reward chart and being able to spend time with me doing something she likes doesn't do much for her. If she doesn't want to do something, just just doesn't do it...uncaring about consequences. I don't want to be mad at her all the time and have us end up with a bad relationship. Ideas?

ali-1411 · September 2010

I found this book very helpful

Cristine · September 2010

We had similar last problems last year when my son went to kindergarten. At pre-school if he didn't want to do something they didn't make him. Kindergarten was a rough adjustment. He had tantrums if he didn't want to do an activity or if he had to switch when he wasn't ready. We started with making him go to his room after school if we got a call from the school. He's very social and he didn't like that all. We also moved his bedtime from 8:30 to 7:30. We noticed he was really tired and that kindergarten was wearing him out. He also started taking Tae Kwon Do. The emphasis on personal discipline really hit home with him. After the first 4 weeks we didn't have any additional problems. His teacher was thrilled with his progress. Good Luck.

DandR · September 2010

consistency, consistency, consistency.

Trouble at school = trouble at home for us. Figure out what her "currency" is, and take it away...favorite toy, computer time, whatever...there is SOMETHING that she will be happy not getting.

Also--don't engage in arguments and yelling at her...that won't help (not saying I'm perfect and never have done that! lol....) My girls do the negotiating thing too, I give them one minute to tell me everything they think they NEEEEEED to tell me, then they deal with the consequences of whatever they did wrong...go to their room, or pick up the mess. Ignore the bad behavior (the temper tantrums anyways..you can't really ignore not coming inside or whatever), praise the good. Also, I've found the calmer I stay, the calmer my girls stay. Not they they don't get out of control or argue...but sometimes I start talking REALLLY quietly, almost a whisper (ok, it might be a realllly angry, biting my tongue whisper!, but its quieter than yelling!). It forces my girls to really stop what they are doing and listen hard.

I'd probably wait to do any sort of reward chart until there is another issue at school...if it happens again next week, then I'd make a one week reward chart...get through 5 days of school, you get pizza and movie night. But if it isn't for a few weeks...then I don't know....

And finally--this might not be for everyone---but our rule for sassing and saying things like "you are killing me!" is vinegar on their tongue. I figure vinegar is a perfectly healthy food substance...its basically salad dressing right? But to my girls its the worst tasting thing IN THE WORLD. They get a warning. "watch your mouth or you will get vinegar on your tongue!" and the next time they sass, they get vinegar and then they can sit in their bedroom until they can control their mouth better. No rinsing the vinegar out. (I just put a drop or two on a spoon). it seems to work well for us.

Good luck! I think the teenage attitude starts around 4 or 5!! LOL

shouldbworkin · September 2010

Ditto DandR re: consistency and finding her currency. At the same time, I don't think KG is supposed to be a breeze for all kids. It's a big transition year for them and, as long as you're willing to work with and communicate with the teacher, you can both get her on the right path. If you two can't help her, then it's possible there is something more going on here and your Ped might recommend at least talking to a psychologist about it. Also, some of it is just genetic. Our DS is really head strong, it's no wonder that he comes from two reallly head strong parents. It's our job to help him channel this trait into something acceptable and recognize that some day this will probably be something that is really good for him later in life. You just can't let them let this derail them early on. GL! I know what a challenge it can be.

CubbyMama · September 2010

We have a student this year in kinder who behaves very similarly. She feeds off of negative attention, so no amount of scolding or punishing changes her behavior. If she sees you getting frustrated or losing your temper, she sees it as a victory and finds it highly amusing to push your buttons and be in control like that. Rewards and bribes don't work, either, because they're artificial and show that it's WE, the adults, who are deciding whether to like her behavior and be happy if she behaves well. What you have to do is turn the tables and remove the emotional factor from consequences, and keep them logical. It's not about "do what I say because I'm your parent/teacher and I will punish you if you don't or be happy and give you rewards if you do"... it's just a cause and effect situation, and the child gets to make their own choices and then the consequences naturally result, without scolding or lecturing. For example, when she refuses to come in from recess, I will say, " Recess is over now. You may choose to line up with your friends and stay on green today, or you may choose to have your clip moved and lose your next recess. Please decide before I get to zero." I then turn away and calmly count down from five. If she chooses not to comply, she does get the consequence, but here's the key: there is no change of emotion in my face or voice, no matter how outlandish her behavior or how bad her choice. It's matter of fact. When you do X, then Y happens. Every time. You don't get extra attention in the process. And if you make a good choice and decide to comply with the rules, you don't get a ticker tape parade or a bunch of hullabaloo--I say, "That was a great choice!" and give a high five, and we move on. Over the course of two months, our student (who has a major attachment disorder and a history of abuse prior to her adoption...her situation is pretty severe) has made huge progress using these techniques. She's not perfect, but the number of times she chooses to be defiant or test her boundaries has gradually decreased so that she almost behaves like an average student much of the time. Consistency, a poker face, a ton of patience, and allowing her to consciously choose her actions and then see the results of those choices are key. Good luck! When there is no reward of attention or reaction from the adult when she misbehaves, you take away her incentive to do it.

CubbyMama · September 2010

Oh, I wanted to add to my already loooong reply (which has no paragraphing because I posted it from DH's iPad...sorry!) that a) it doesn't matter whether she says she cares about any consequence you give, and b) she's probably lying about that, anyway.

I don't pay my mortgage because I'm worried about whether someone will get mad at me or not like me anymore if I don't, or because I get a sticker or a prize if I do. I pay it because if I don't, I lose my house. And the mortgage company doesn't care whether or not I like my house or pretend not to care if they take it away--that's just the consequence of not paying. I don't know if that's the best analogy, but what I'm trying to say is that your concern is not finding punishments that are "bad" enough to make her cry, force her to show remorse, etc. Your concern is to show her that behaviors have consequences that are not inflicted upon you by adults who feel like being nice or mean to you--they are just the natural result of your actions. Continuing to escalate consequences until you get a reaction from her is just giving her the power to upset and frustrate you, and a reason to think you're unfair if your punishments get to be so extreme that they no longer fit the "crime" and are designed only to get a negative reaction out of her. I'd be willing to bet that you could take away anything and subject her to almost anything as punishment, and she would never admit that it bothered her. Take the emotion out of it altogether, and I promise you, it will get better.

The student in my class that I talked about does the exact same thing--she goes home and tells her parents she had a bad day, shrugs it off, and claims not to care about whatever consequences she got. Her parents take this to mean that our tactics are not working. What I see, however, is a child who ran like a terror through our classroom, destroyed teachers' and classmates' property at will, ran away when approached by an adult, and generally had no sign of civilized behavior at ALL two months ago...who is now a functioning member of our class. (And, by the way, at home she continues to be a monster, according to her parents, who yell, threaten, punish, yank on her arm, lecture her, and bribe her to behave.) I don't care whether or not she claims to be affected by missing out on an activity when she refuses to follow the rules, or being separated from friends when she hurts them. Her actions show that she DOES care, because her behavior has changed as a result of consistency and logical consequences, administered by adults who refuse to play into a battle of wills with her.

movinup · September 2010

Thanks so much for all of your well thought out replies. Wow, I wasn't expecting so much. :-) It is so wonderful to get the opinion of other mothers and a teacher. I was really stressed out when I wrote this post. DH was out of town the previous week (unreachable) and I was dealing with everything myself.

I just want to clarify, that DD hasn't had the behavior at school that she's had with me...just the recess episode as far as I know. I'm hoping some of her behavior flare up has been from the stress of starting kindergarten and being tired also. (It's full day and she did JUST turn 5.)

CubbyMama, My DD is very large for her age. She is about the size of a second grader. (60 lb, 50 in.) Do you think that as a teacher that has any bearing on how she might be treated? (Not the recess episode, obviously.) I feel sometimes like people (myself included) expect her to act older than she is.

I also love the tai kwon do idea! She would really like that. She's been in a lot of swimming and also soccer, ballet, and tumbling and she loves them but she does not always like to follow the rules and she'd have to sit on the side of the pool more than the other kids. (Again, she was 1-3 years younger than the other kids in her class. When I mentioned that to the teacher after a couple weeks, he was shocked.) She is SUPER social and wants to go full steam ahead with everything she does in life.

Thanks again, Ladies!

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