Team Blue!! Circumcision issues...

MissSunny42 · August 2010

We just found out that our LO is a boy! We couldn't be happier. I can't wait to meet him

I decided this would be a great time to bring up the fact that I do not want to circumsize my son, as I see it as an unnessecary act of mutulation. DH is on the fence about it, he is circumsized but also sees that it is an outdated ritual. DH's family however thinks I am nuts to not circumsize. Anyone else dealing with something like this?

KeriMac · August 2010

Our big u/s is 8/26, so I don't know yet, but I am not 100% sure I want to circumsize if it's a boy. I would have to do some research. My OBs and MW say it's about 50/50 now, and they seem to be fine with either option, although I know many people feel strongly about one side or the other.

I think my DH would be hard to convince as well. I would probably research with him and maybe have a chat with DD's pedi.

uklawgirl · August 2010

We find out the gender in a week and if we have a boy we will absolutely not be circumcising either. I agree with you that it's basically unnecessary mutilation. My family will have a *fit* but I personally don't care at all. It is not their child, and I really don't care what they say. Besides (hopefully) helping to change diapers for the first couple of years, they won't be seeing his privates anyway, so they can just nevermind. I did get the speech about how my son would be different than all the boys in the locker room and I am not worried about that either. He can just tell all the rest of them that he has pity on them for being altered without their consent!

mchupie · August 2010

Congrats on your boy! I think that circumcision is just one of those things where there are so many different opinions; I think everyone should do what is best for them

Keddy15 · August 2010

Seriously, I understand that you are anti-circumcision, but you don't need to refer to it as, "an unnecessary act of mutilation." I am jewish and my son will have a bris 8 days after he is born. Guess what, I know a lot of jewish guys including my DH who have had bris'es and none of them have any problems with it. The way you are talking about circumcision is plain out offensive to me. In my world baby boys are circumcised because of a commandment from G-d.

MichelleL1118 · August 2010

If our LO ends up being a boy, DH will make the decision about whether or not to circumcise, since he's the one with a p.enis, not me. I'll go along with whatever he decides to do.

broccolitree · August 2010

Learn this phrase. Remember it, and repeat it as necessary:

"This is the right decision for us. I am the parent. End of discussion."

There are so, so many divisive issues in childrearing... the actual circumcision is almost a moot point. There would be similar fights if you didn't find out the sex, if you wanted/didn't want your baby daughter's ears pierced, if you were immunizing/not immunizing, if you're BFing or FFing, CDing or disposables, and on and on, even as they get older... homeschooling, school sports, when should they date, should they be allowed to get a car, etc. People get defensive, because if you say, "well, it's not a right choice for us do to Foo, because of Bar," then they get all uppity because THEY did Foo, so how dare you impugn their decisions.

Just head it off at the pass and say, "We are doing this because it's the right decision for us. I am the parent (or, we are the parents if your H is present). End of discussion." If you give reasons, you give the impression that it's open for debate. It's not.

shpinz13 · August 2010

Congratulations on your boy!! DH and I are planning to circumcise if our LO is a boy

MicheleR96 · August 2010

Congrats on your boy! As far as circumcision goes, I definitely don't think it is an "act of mutilation" but a choice that a parent makes for their child as with many things. I have no problem either way if someone does or does not circumsize their son, but I would. There are a lot of reasons I have for it, but the one that absolutely convinved me was my FIL telling me he wishes he was circumcised when he was a baby. He had to get it done in his 40's and he said it was an awful experience and he wished his parents would have done it when he was born because he would have never remembered it.

*kendrick* · August 2010

We will not circumcise DS. I'll list our thoughts below as maybe they will help your DH process. As for what family thinks-- your child's genitals are none of their business. I cannot imagine ever even asking what they thought!

Here is how we reasoned out each of the arguments around circumcision.

Theologically- we are neither Muslim nor Jewish so it isn't a sacred act for us.

Health- arguments for it are inconclusive enough that we are comfortable going with the more European view. I respect that in a culture where AIDS is heartbreakingly rampant a benefit does seem to be emerging, but that is not our culture. If that every becomes our culture, we can readdress the issue.

Social/comparison concerns: everyone has a body that is different from parents and peers. Little girls have flat chests, everyone in the family may have different looking nipples, kids don't have pubic hair. We teach kids to deal with their differences, not change themselves

Ethically- We don't believe in imposing body modification for others for non-health reasons, and since we don't see it as a health reason this would not be an ethical act for us. (We can see how families who come down on a different side of the health position would 100% see it as ethical and we respect their choice. It just isn't the right thing for us.)

Hygienically- women learn to clean their folds so personal care can certainly be taught to men as well. Elderly men in other countries manage to get penile care ample enough that there isn't a circumcision revolution in other cultures.

Culturally- In our culture the infant circ rate is going down, so doing it is not necessary culturally. In other cultures doing it all is weird, in yet other cultures doing it on an infant is weird. Culture can even vary across the country. Because of such huge variations , the cultural argument is the weakest to me. We don't ever want to pick something because the crowd is doing it (though really the crowd isn't even really doing it as much). Another cultural example, in some Muslim cultures boys get circumcised when they reach puberty as part of entering the faith. The idea that circumcision is unbearable after infancy is a Western perception, not a universal truth. Which brings us to...

Reversibility- If our son ever needs a circumcision to solve a diagnosed problem, we can still do it. If he reaches the age of reason and wants to be circumcised for whatever reason, we will support his wishes. His body, his choice.

SALloyd · August 2010

Simmer down. Everyone, including you, is intitled to their opinion.

alliecarrie41 · August 2010

i'm def. circumcising i can't imagine not... but it's up to you and husband, not anyone else.

Mrs.PsyD · August 2010

I have to say I find this discussion interesting. Lots of points to think on.

MonaLS · August 2010

we're not finding out the gender but if it is a boy we will not circumcize for many of the reasons listed above.

i won't explain the reasons to anyone..in laws, parents, etc. it is our decision.

izzourclue · August 2010

*kendrick*:
We will not circumcise DS. I'll list our thoughts below as maybe they will help your DH process. As for what family thinks-- your child's genitals are none of their business. I cannot imagine ever even asking what they thought!
Here is how we reasoned out each of the arguments around circumcision.
Theologically- we are neither Muslim nor Jewish so it isn't a sacred act for us.
Health- arguments for it are inconclusive enough that we are comfortable going with the more European view. I respect that in a culture where AIDS is heartbreakingly rampant a benefit does seem to be emerging, but that is not our culture. If that every becomes our culture, we can readdress the issue.
Social/comparison concerns: everyone has a body that is different from parents and peers. Little girls have flat chests, everyone in the family may have different looking nipples, kids don't have pubic hair. We teach kids to deal with their differences, not change themselves
Ethically- We don't believe in imposing body modification for others for non-health reasons, and since we don't see it as a health reason this would not be an ethical act for us. (We can see how families who come down on a different side of the health position would 100% see it as ethical and we respect their choice. It just isn't the right thing for us.)
Hygienically- women learn to clean their folds so personal care can certainly be taught to men as well. Elderly men in other countries manage to get penile care ample enough that there isn't a circumcision revolution in other cultures.
Culturally- In our culture the infant circ rate is going down, so doing it is not necessary culturally. In other cultures doing it all is weird, in yet other cultures doing it on an infant is weird. Culture can even vary across the country. Because of such huge variations , the cultural argument is the weakest to me. We don't ever want to pick something because the crowd is doing it (though really the crowd isn't even really doing it as much). Another cultural example, in some Muslim cultures boys get circumcised when they reach puberty as part of entering the faith. The idea that circumcision is unbearable after infancy is a Western perception, not a universal truth. Which brings us to...

Reversibility- If our son ever needs a circumcision to solve a diagnosed problem, we can still do it. If he reaches the age of reason and wants to be circumcised for whatever reason, we will support his wishes. His body, his choice.

I'm not going to argue whether to circumcise or not, but I was wondering how AIDS is not part of your culture? Its a part of everyone's culture and there are 10s of thousands of new cases of HIV diagnosed every year in the US. I just want to understand how anyone that is part of any modern society in the world doesn't consider HIV/AIDS part of their culture.

CAB'smommy · August 2010

So this is the debate of the day.

) I had DS circumsized and I will circumsize this LO if it is a boy. Reason, I saw an adult male try to get a catheter put in, which was a fail, and they ended up having to circumsize him. This man was a 51 year old with Down Syndrome. It was awful! I can't imagine my child (which is what I equate this man to) going through that procedure later in life. But it is funny you chose to call it an "unnecessary act of mutilation". I certainly hope you don't have any earrings or tattoos or I'll have to say that's hypocritical.

kbuns · August 2010

izzourclue:
*kendrick*:
We will not circumcise DS. I'll list our thoughts below as maybe they will help your DH process. As for what family thinks-- your child's genitals are none of their business. I cannot imagine ever even asking what they thought!
Here is how we reasoned out each of the arguments around circumcision.
Theologically- we are neither Muslim nor Jewish so it isn't a sacred act for us.
Health- arguments for it are inconclusive enough that we are comfortable going with the more European view. I respect that in a culture where AIDS is heartbreakingly rampant a benefit does seem to be emerging, but that is not our culture. If that every becomes our culture, we can readdress the issue.
Social/comparison concerns: everyone has a body that is different from parents and peers. Little girls have flat chests, everyone in the family may have different looking nipples, kids don't have pubic hair. We teach kids to deal with their differences, not change themselves
Ethically- We don't believe in imposing body modification for others for non-health reasons, and since we don't see it as a health reason this would not be an ethical act for us. (We can see how families who come down on a different side of the health position would 100% see it as ethical and we respect their choice. It just isn't the right thing for us.)
Hygienically- women learn to clean their folds so personal care can certainly be taught to men as well. Elderly men in other countries manage to get penile care ample enough that there isn't a circumcision revolution in other cultures.
Culturally- In our culture the infant circ rate is going down, so doing it is not necessary culturally. In other cultures doing it all is weird, in yet other cultures doing it on an infant is weird. Culture can even vary across the country. Because of such huge variations , the cultural argument is the weakest to me. We don't ever want to pick something because the crowd is doing it (though really the crowd isn't even really doing it as much). Another cultural example, in some Muslim cultures boys get circumcised when they reach puberty as part of entering the faith. The idea that circumcision is unbearable after infancy is a Western perception, not a universal truth. Which brings us to...

Reversibility- If our son ever needs a circumcision to solve a diagnosed problem, we can still do it. If he reaches the age of reason and wants to be circumcised for whatever reason, we will support his wishes. His body, his choice.
I'm not going to argue whether to circumcise or not, but I was wondering how AIDS is not part of your culture? Its a part of everyone's culture and there are 10s of thousands of new cases of HIV diagnosed every year in the US. I just want to understand how anyone that is part of any modern society in the world doesn't consider HIV/AIDS part of their culture.

Thank you!

you wanna tell me its not part of my culture when I have lost an uncle/ a best friend / and other close people in my life to this horrible disease. And I do not live in a huge city ... I live in a city of 9000 people on a good day! Its very much apart of our everyday society. Let pray someday we find a cure to this!!

starsthreetimes · August 2010

Yeah, I dealt with it with my son. That's exactly it, MY son. I did what I felt was right which was to leave my son the way mother nature intended.

I didn't have any reason to circumcise him and yes, to a degree, I feel it is mutilation and I didn't want my son to be a part of that especially to a new born baby.

I can understand religious aspects of it and that's not for me to judge but in my opinion, it held no benefit to my baby at all and would only serve for aesthetic reasons.

IF he grows up and feels strongly about circumcision then, at least we can have the procedure done but once it's gone, there's no putting that back :P

*kendrick* · August 2010

izzourclue:
I'm not going to argue whether to circumcise or not, but I was wondering how AIDS is not part of your culture? Its a part of everyone's culture and there are 10s of thousands of new cases of HIV diagnosed every year in the US. I just want to understand how anyone that is part of any modern society in the world doesn't consider HIV/AIDS part of their culture.

I was trying not to get too long, but I see how that came off weird as a condensed thought. I agree with you that it is certainly part of our culture and a hard reality here, as well as elsewhere in the world. Here was/is my thought process, even if I said it oddly the first time...

I was thinking specifically of parts of Africa (esp. Sub-Sarahan) where the rate of HIV/AIDS is up to 25%+ and the rate of using condoms is still very low (but at least increasing in some places). Medically, foreskin removal has shown some benefit in lessening transmission of HIV/AIDS. In the US, condoms are much more culturally acceptable and sexual education is widespread.

Barring the safest choice of abstinence and then monogamy, education and condoms seem like a surer course for prevention than body modification. In our culture, we are hugely closer to that step than, say, Swaziland. So, for me--the medical benefit of circumcision can be duplicated through sexual education and condom use, things that our culture advocates moreso than some other cultures.

Lantaria · August 2010

My boys are not circumcised. My family thought we were crazy, I told them that when they pop a baby out if their vagina they could decide what to do with its wiener, until then it was our decision. This is how I respond to all criticism on how we choose to parent our children.

*kendrick* · August 2010

kbuns:

Thank you!

you wanna tell me its not part of my culture when I have lost an uncle/ a best friend / and other close people in my life to this horrible disease. And I do not live in a huge city ... I live in a city of 9000 people on a good day! Its very much apart of our everyday society. Let pray someday we find a cure to this!!

I hope my follow up better explains what I meant to say. Absolutely AIDS/HIV is part of our culture. I am so sorry for the loss of your uncle and best friend.

By "if that ever becomes our culture" I was thinking of if my own family moved to say, Botswana (23% infection rate) for a long period of time where our son would grow up in that culture. I literally meant my own family's culture, not U.S. culture. While that is not a current plan, I never say never. I know (and have financially supported) people who gave up everything to go and live and run the only clinic offering the anti-viral within a several day walk and housed 50 orphaned children (many of whose parents died from HIV/AIDS). If they could do it, it sometimes enters my head that I could, too.

I can see how my phrasing would be offensive to any one not inside my head. I apologize.

scarlet86 · August 2010

My DH would not let me circ my DS. I heard so many scary stories of them going bad so I agreed.

lattelady2 · August 2010

If our LO is a boy he will be circumcised. I totally respect those who wish to not, my reasons are primarily health related. I'm an RN who used to work on an adult Medical floor and now I work in a NICU where circumcisions are performed. I've seen way to many infected non-circumcised adult males to not have our LO circ'd, and have personally witnessed how comfortable the babies are when they have it performed. They give them Tylenol and numb it all before hand, and are given the same afterwards as well.

All in all though, its the parents choice on whether they want this done - it is an elective procedure after all.

PrincessSarah1979 · August 2010

MicheleR96:

Congrats on your boy! As far as circumcision goes, I definitely don't think it is an "act of mutilation" but a choice that a parent makes for their child as with many things. I have no problem either way if someone does or does not circumsize their son, but I would. There are a lot of reasons I have for it, but the one that absolutely convinved me was my FIL telling me he wishes he was circumcised when he was a baby. He had to get it done in his 40's and he said it was an awful experience and he wished his parents would have done it when he was born because he would have never remembered it.

I agree with this. My little bro had to get circumsized at 12 and he was in such pain!!! My husband wants it done so if we have a boy we will go with circumcision.

kbuns · August 2010

*kendrick*:
kbuns:

Thank you!
you wanna tell me its not part of my culture when I have lost an uncle/ a best friend / and other close people in my life to this horrible disease. And I do not live in a huge city ... I live in a city of 9000 people on a good day! Its very much apart of our everyday society. Let pray someday we find a cure to this!!
I hope my follow up better explains what I meant to say. Absolutely AIDS/HIV is part of our culture. I am so sorry for the loss of your uncle and best friend.
By "if that ever becomes our culture" I was thinking of if my own family moved to say, Botswana (23% infection rate) for a long period of time where our son would grow up in that culture. I literally meant my own family's culture, not U.S. culture. While that is not a current plan, I never say never. I know (and have financially supported) people who gave up everything to go and live and run the only clinic offering the anti-viral within a several day walk and housed 50 orphaned children (many of whose parents died from HIV/AIDS). If they could do it, it sometimes enters my head that I could, too.
I can see how my phrasing would be offensive to any one not inside my head. I apologize.

Yes and thank you. I understand what you were saying much better now. I just take to heart when people say oh its only a gay thing or a Africa thing.. when its an every person of every color and every sexuality thing. HIV/Aids has broke my heart one to many times and I would do anything to see a cure. And thank you for your condolences.

I also agree with teaching sex ed, condoms, abstinence, waiting till marriage ( even though I didn't I pray my child will ) and I hope in the near future we will find the cure!

MrsYam · August 2010

I think its all up to the parents. No one else can decide. If you get questioned... just reply... "My baby, my decision." End of story.

Congrats on your little boy!

mben · August 2010

Circumcised my first and will with any future sons. I am an RN and see young boys and grown men come in for circumcisions (due to phimosis) all the time. Very painful and they all say they wish they had it done when they were younger.

jfayerman · August 2010

Keddy15:
Seriously, I understand that you are anti-circumcision, but you don't need to refer to it as, "an unnecessary act of mutilation." I am jewish and my son will have a bris 8 days after he is born. Guess what, I know a lot of jewish guys including my DH who have had bris'es and none of them have any problems with it. The way you are talking about circumcision is plain out offensive to me. In my world baby boys are circumcised because of a commandment from G-d.

This exactly!! (All except the part about DH being Jewish too). DH and I are interfaith and will still be doing the bris and will be raising our son Jewish. Even apart from the religious considerations, DH is in favor of doing this.

UrbanHippieMama · August 2010

I haven't read any of the replies, but this is your baby. DH's family should have no say in any of your decisions regarding the baby, especially something like this. GL with your decision, and FWIW, I totally agree with you! If this baby turns out to be a boy, we won't be circ'ing either.

skoogirl · August 2010

My dad had to be circumcised as an adult due to an infection, which was apparently one of the worst days of his life. That was the reason my brothers were circumcised as babies and the reason my child will be if he/she is a boy. I wouldn't want my son to have to go through that trauma.

headlight · August 2010

I will not circumcise. PLEASE, PLEASE let's not bring into this discussion the fact of AIDS/HIV. Myth, that it cut penis will help prevent it is so ridicules. There is no medical study showing for it.

My DH is not circumcised as is the whole Europe. The rate of infection is not higher. You know how to clean in and you are fine.

Read here, there is plenty articles about it, with medical data on the bottom to prove it.

https://www.drmomma.org/#uds-search-results

There are also articles showing how popular restoration of the foreskin is.

headlight · August 2010

I will not circumcise.

The circumcision rate in US is only 33% now.

PLEASE, PLEASE let's not bring into this discussion the fact of AIDS/HIV. Myth, that it cut penis will help prevent it is so ridicules. There is no medical study showing for it.

My DH is not circumcised as is the whole Europe. The rate of infection is not higher. You know how to clean in and you are fine.

Read here, there is plenty articles about it, with medical data on the bottom to prove it.

https://www.drmomma.org/#uds-search-results

There are also articles showing how popular restoration of the foreskin is.

wda519 · August 2010

we found out in advance that our fisrt was a son. i told my dh to decide about circumcision because he's the one with the penis. dh decided to circumcision our son even though he's not. i thought it would cause questions later when he saw daddy's penis is different but he never asked about it. he knows boys have penis' and they're not all the same. i have no worries about him ever feeling different (at home or in a locker room, plus aren't boys more worried about size not excess skin)

JimsBride08 · August 2010

We have not decided what we'll be doing with DC #2 if it's a boy. DS is circumcised. I felt so bad after we did it. Then when we switched pedi's at 15 months, we learned that DS's penis had adhesions all over the head where the remaining skin was reattaching. We had to work at pulling it back and getting rid of the adhesions for months. This seems to be a common problem if nobody tells you how to take care of the circumcised penis-I've seen it a lot on the boards.

If your DH sees it as an outdated ritual and you don't want to do it, I say don't do it. Who cares what his family thinks? It's not their child and not their penis.

starsmaycollide · August 2010

I am having a boy, and we are not doing it. DH is circumsized, but agrees with me it doesn't seem necessary. The medical benefits aren't really significant enough, it seems most people prefer it for other reasons.

MissSunny42 · August 2010

CAB'smommy:
So this is the debate of the day. ) I had DS circumsized and I will circumsize this LO if it is a boy. Reason, I saw an adult male try to get a catheter put in, which was a fail, and they ended up having to circumsize him. This man was a 51 year old with Down Syndrome. It was awful! I can't imagine my child (which is what I equate this man to) going through that procedure later in life. But it is funny you chose to call it an "unnecessary act of mutilation". I certainly hope you don't have any earrings or tattoos or I'll have to say that's hypocritical.

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