A random thought....

sparky88 · August 2010

Someone made a statement in an earlier thread that 'children under 5 yrs old won't remember whether you work (or not)'-- or something to that tune. I understand that it was in regards to the financial stuff (below) which I'm not getting involved with.

But I did want to post a thought about that statement here. Mainly, because I think that SAHM's get this message a lot; "whether you work or SAH it doesn't really matter one way or the other". It subtly disregards all the hardwork and effort it takes to be present with your children 10-14 hours per day (plus nights).

As parents, we may never know how our choices impact our kids (directly or indirectly). *some* people may not have memories of their early years, perhaps. I know that I DO-- and so I am speaking from that perspective.

My mom's customized attention helped me learn & grow into the person I was at 6, 7, 8 years old. We were building a relationship that would carry through my teen & adult years. She helped me learn how to interact with others and handle my feelings-- all things that BUILD throughout your childhood. She gave me a solid base-- and I saw the time/effort/energy/pride she put into being a SAHM. I appreciated it so much that I always wanted to give the same foundation to my future children, if possible.

Now, let's say I have NO memories from my early years. Still, it matters to me deep down that I was important enough in my mothers eyes for HER to choose to witness my little life unfold first hand. To know that she cared enough to just be present. To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family. She might hold the majority of my little years in her memory, but I hold them in my heart. In a subconscious way, perhaps. It meant something to me.

I was just worried that some SAHM's get the message that whether they are 'home' or not doesn't really matter to their kids one way or the other. IMO, it matters. To some people, some of the time- I suppose.

Boizmom · August 2010

I too have memories of before I was 5 yo. My memories aren't good ones. I had a terrible life before I was 5 yo. My Mother was addicted to drugs, would leave me and my baby brother places so she could go get high. I remember being in the back seat of the car, being told to turn around so that she and her boyfriend could shoot up. I remember when the police busted down the door at the house I was left at and taking a helicopter ride to the hospital. Those memories will forever be with me. After that she was no longer my Mother and I became a ward of the state and was adopted when I was 6 yo. I'm sure the severity of my early years is why I remember such things but still, to say that a child under 5 yo will have no memories of Mommy working or what have you is totally false.

HarrietNJMommy · August 2010

I understand what you are trying to say and I think it's fantastic that you value your mom being a SAHM, but you come across as "digging" moms that choose to work or that have to work.

Saying that you were "important enough in your mother's eyes for her to choose to witness your little life unfold first hand........" is not fair to all the working moms, dads, etc. Their children are not any less important because they work. "To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family." This also, is a huge dig at dads. What if you're married to a schoolteacher in a HCOL area and the dad just CAN'T support the family on his salary?

I'm tired of the SAHM vs. working mom battle. We see it all the time.

I really wish people would do what THEY felt was right FOR THEIR OWN FAMILY and not give a crap about what anyone else feels, thinks, etc.

And I am not trying to start a debate. I'm a full-time SAHM. I know that I'm lucky to be able to live the life I'm living, but I don't begrudge women that want to work, have to work, etc. And I certainly don't think that my kids are "better off" because I SAH. They would do just fine in a daycare situation.

Andrewsgal · August 2010

I agree that kids will have memories or have secure feelings that were instilled in them from a young age. I don't agree it is because we are SAHM. I don't think it is about the amount of time you spend with your chiild, but the quality of time you spend with your kid. In my many years as a teacher I could not tell you whose mom SAH, but I could tell you which kids had involved loving parents.

Andrewsgal · August 2010

HarrietNJMommy:

I understand what you are trying to say and I think it's fantastic that you value your mom being a SAHM, but you come across as "digging" moms that choose to work or that have to work.

Saying that you were "important enough in your mother's eyes for her to choose to witness your little life unfold first hand........" is not fair to all the working moms, dads, etc. Their children are not any less important because they work. "To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family." This also, is a huge dig at dads. What if you're married to a schoolteacher in a HCOL area and the dad just CAN'T support the family on his salary?

I'm tired of the SAHM vs. working mom battle. We see it all the time.

I really wish people would do what THEY felt was right FOR THEIR OWN FAMILY and not give a crap about what anyone else feels, thinks, etc.

And I am not trying to start a debate. I'm a full-time SAHM. I know that I'm lucky to be able to live the life I'm living, but I don't begrudge women that want to work, have to work, etc. And I certainly don't think that my kids are "better off" because I SAH. They would do just fine in a daycare situation.

As usual you said it better, this is what I was getting at!

I agree my kids are no better off than my sisters who works full time. We both love our kids and our doing our best! In the end that is all that matters. If anyone truly believes that your kids will be better people in the end just because you SAH you overvalue yourself.

MamatoJackson · August 2010

It's a well-known fact that the entire spectrum of a person's core personality, general viewpoints, etc. are established and concrete by the age of 5. How can those years be written off as unimportant?

Andrewsgal · August 2010

MamatoJackson:

It's a well-known fact that the entire spectrum of a person's core personality, general viewpoints, etc. are established and concrete by the age of 5. How can those years be written off as unimportant?

I don't think anyone is writing those years off as unimportant, I just think both WM and SAHM can do just as good a job raising kids, showing them love, time and instilling morals and values. I SAH because it is what is best for me and my family at this point, who knows that could change in a year. I think as long as i continue to spend quality time with my kids and love them to the best of my ability they will turn out okay whether I am at home with them or not.

sparky88 · August 2010

MamatoJackson:

It's a well-known fact that the entire spectrum of a person's core personality, general viewpoints, etc. are established and concrete by the age of 5. How can those years be written off as unimportant?

Thank you- that is what I was trying to say. I probably inserted too many flowery stories from my childhood.

The statement "kids won't remember the first 5 years" undermines all caregivers-- mothers, fathers, teachers & childcare teachers. The first 5 years matter immensely.

HarrietNJMommy · August 2010

MamatoJackson:
It's a well-known fact that the entire spectrum of a person's core personality, general viewpoints, etc. are established and concrete by the age of 5. How can those years be written off as unimportant?

I don't think anyone is writing them off as unimportant. BUT, it doesn't matter whether or not you SAH in those years. It's about parenting well, not just "physically" being there..........

sparky88 · August 2010

I would also like to clarify that this isn't a debate about SAH or WM-- it is a a statement that I believe the first 5 years of development & relationship building are huge. To dismiss it simply because one believes a child won't have tangible memories is naive, and insulting to the many people who devote their lives to children-- whether as parents or through a profession. I don't care if you work/don't work/whatver. I am just saying that I do have memories from before age 5, and the things I don't remember did change the person who I became, ultimately. It's basic understanding of human development. That's all.

gumiberg · August 2010

As someone who was raised by a working mother (and not just a working mother, but a highly successful working mother who is well-known in her field), i found the post offensive. It did seem like you were saying that your mother was a better mother because she stayed at home. My mom is my bestfriend and I too, have wonderful memories of my early childhood. However, YES, some of my memories include that of daycare and babysitters. But those are fond memories as well.

I guess I dont read closely because I havent read anyone saying that the first 5 years dont matter.

HarrietNJMommy · August 2010

sparky88:
I would also like to clarify that this isn't a debate about SAH or WM-- it is a a statement that I believe the first 5 years of development & relationship building are huge. To dismiss it simply because one believes a child won't have tangible memories is naive, and insulting to the many people who devote their lives to children-- whether as parents or through a profession. I don't care if you work/don't work/whatver. I am just saying that I do have memories from before age 5, and the things I don't remember did change the person who I became, ultimately. It's basic understanding of human development. That's all.

I agree that the first 5 years are VERY important, but that's not exactly how you presented your OP.......

sparky88 · August 2010

gumiberg:

I guess I dont read closely because I havent read anyone saying that the first 5 years dont matter.

Nobody has said that the first 5 years don't matter. They stated that a child will not remember them. One example, was in the post titled "not meant to be snarky, but an honest question" where a poster stated, "Oh, and your kids will not remember if you work a job when they're under 5".

As almost everyone in this post can attest-- through examples of a wonderful SAHM (mine) or a wonderful working mom (above), or a terrible SAHM situation (also above)---kids DO remember things that happen under the age of 5. Parental choices DO matter.

I hope that is more clear for everyone. I can see I wasn't very specific in my first post, and was quite rambly. Peace.

Andrewsgal · August 2010

HarrietNJMommy:

sparky88:
I would also like to clarify that this isn't a debate about SAH or WM-- it is a a statement that I believe the first 5 years of development & relationship building are huge. To dismiss it simply because one believes a child won't have tangible memories is naive, and insulting to the many people who devote their lives to children-- whether as parents or through a profession. I don't care if you work/don't work/whatver. I am just saying that I do have memories from before age 5, and the things I don't remember did change the person who I became, ultimately. It's basic understanding of human development. That's all.

I agree that the first 5 years are VERY important, but that's not exactly how you presented your OP.......

I agree, it is not how your OP was written at all. And honestly it is post like your OP that devalue working Moms. My mom worked and was the most amazing influence, she and I are bestfriends today and I love her more than words. DH's Mom SAH his whole life, he does not like her at all and wants nothing to do with her.

jenifairies · August 2010

Andrewsgal:
I agree that kids will have memories or have secure feelings that were instilled in them from a young age. I don't agree it is because we are SAHM. I don't think it is about the amount of time you spend with your chiild, but the quality of time you spend with your kid. In my many years as a teacher I could not tell you whose mom SAH, but I could tell you which kids had involved loving parents.

Exactly. And ditto harriet - your OP is pretty obnoxious. SAHMS are no better than WMs. There are plenty of horrible sahms as well as working moms.

sparky88 · August 2010

The reason I included examples of memories/experiences from my childhood (under age 5) was to support the idea that children do form memories at a really young age. To argue otherwise is to dismiss the efforts of all caregivers. This is pretty simple, right?

jenifairies · August 2010

sparky88:

The reason I included examples of memories/experiences from my childhood (under age 5) was to support the idea that children do form memories at a really young age. To argue otherwise is to dismiss the efforts of all caregivers. This is pretty simple, right?

I'm not sure what is unclear for you about the other replies. You can say you remember your mom being at home and how you loved it without sounding like a jerk. However, saying that your mom put you first, and how she did blah blah for you and how your dad supported her so well so she could and blah blah - that's what's offensive. Do you not see where a mom who works (by choice or necessity or both) would find that insulting? As if she is less of a mother? And what about fathers? My DH works FT,a weekend a month, plus school. He's not there for every moment. That doesn't mean he's any less of a parent.

this part --

Still, it matters to me deep down that I was important enough in my mothers eyes for HER to choose to witness my little life unfold first hand. To know that she cared enough to just be present. To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2010

From a child development standpoint, we all have childhood amnesia, which does not allow us to remember life before the age of 4. Unless there was some huge trauma, many of your memories previous to the age of 4 are from what others have told you, not from your own personal recollections. Maybe big events will stand out (which could happen regardless if you're at home or working) but in theory, it's true that you won't remember your mom being home 24/7 when you were age 0-4. Working during those years isn't going to put your child at a disadvantage (assuming they are receiving quality care while you're working). Clearly a good parent can create a good foundation for a child's future at that point, but a good daycare provider/family member can provide that if the mom has to work as well.

To not bring up a dead horse, the point I was trying to make was that if you have the choice between SAH when you truly can't afford to do so or working a few years, getting your finances in order, then SAH when your child is older and will remember, the latter choice is probably much more beneficial to your child and their future. For me personally, I chose to take time off for his first 7 years of life instead of doing so when he was school aged, so I do see the value at being at home while my DS is very young.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2010

gumiberg:

As someone who was raised by a working mother (and not just a working mother, but a highly successful working mother who is well-known in her field), i found the post offensive. It did seem like you were saying that your mother was a better mother because she stayed at home. My mom is my bestfriend and I too, have wonderful memories of my early childhood. However, YES, some of my memories include that of daycare and babysitters. But those are fond memories as well.

I guess I dont read closely because I havent read anyone saying that the first 5 years dont matter.

I agree. My mother was a SAHM and my father worked 2 jobs, and my most positive childhood memories were of my dad because he was the better parent. There is truth to the fact that parenting is about quality over quantity.

Andrewsgal · August 2010

jenifairies:
sparky88:

The reason I included examples of memories/experiences from my childhood (under age 5) was to support the idea that children do form memories at a really young age. To argue otherwise is to dismiss the efforts of all caregivers. This is pretty simple, right?

I'm not sure what is unclear for you about the other replies. You can say you remember your mom being at home and how you loved it without sounding like a jerk. However, saying that your mom put you first, and how she did blah blah for you and how your dad supported her so well so she could and blah blah - that's what's offensive. Do you not see where a mom who works (by choice or necessity or both) would find that insulting? As if she is less of a mother? And what about fathers? My DH works FT,a weekend a month, plus school. He's not there for every moment. That doesn't mean he's any less of a parent.

this part --

Still, it matters to me deep down that I was important enough in my mothers eyes for HER to choose to witness my little life unfold first hand. To know that she cared enough to just be present. To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family.

Very Very well said!!

You can backpedal all you want now, but your OP was basically to state how important SAHM were and how much better off our kids are, and how we love our kids so much more because we are willing to SAH.

I have no problem with people have opinions different from mine, but stand by what you said instead of backpedaling when people don't like what you have to say!

othello888 · August 2010

Me too! I have so many wonderful memories of spending time with my mom before I went to school. Even the simple act of having lunch together, I still remember what we ate, where we sat, etc. Even though it wasn't always "quality time", it still meant a lot. For example, to this day, if I hear a theme song from an old school soap opera I am instantly happy! haha. We are so close now. Of course I have nothing else to compare it too, but I loved my childhood and some of those memories are the best of my life. This was a major factor in my choice to stay at home with my children.

ClaudiaAC · August 2010

I think it's a little interesting that this post is causing such a big stir when obviously she wasn't trying to cause an issue. She was stating an opinion, a view, a belief...on a board of people she has the topic in common with. If she was posting this on a board of working moms and stay at home moms I could see how there could be such a stir.

I have to say in a way I agree with her, and I think when it comes down to the bare bones of it most of you would as well. Or you wouldn't stay at home. If you didn't find it important, if you didn't feel it was a priority, if you didn't see the value in it.. you wouldn't stay home. Especially because it's been covered here time and time again that for most people there is a financial sacrifice or some sort of monetary adjustment that is made being a SAHM.

Did she word it the best way? Maybe not. But I don't think it should be such a debate.

sparky88 · August 2010

Thank you to those who are making a sincere effort to understand my point.

I do not understand how explaining that I have positive memories of my parents when I was less than 5 years old (and describing said SAHM memories in a mushy way to illustrate a point) has anything to do with somehow belittling working parents. I re-read my post and sorry but I don't see myself 'backpeddling' or being a 'jerk' to anyone in this thread. I do see many people being rather rude, dismissive, and defensive toward me.

I was hoping to provide those SAHM's who are out there just scraping by with hope & support that their efforts (mom & dad) very well might be remembered in a positive way by their young child. I hope that someone out there finds my post encouraging.

I have been posting on this board for several years. Some of you have been parents for a long time, and I look to you for support. I have one child, a 16 month old girl. The SAHM/WM 'debate' that some of you brought INTO this thread might be overdone to you. But to new parents, weighing the options-- it's nice to hear from other's perspectives. I absolutely lurk on the WM board from time to time (and the infertility board, singles board, loss boards)--and you know what? Doing so has made me understand other women's choices/situations so much better. I absolutely can be supportive of both 'sides' and still firmly say "I loved having a SAHM, and I love being one". That doesn't take anything away from the woman who says the opposite. Really.

Andrewsgal · August 2010

Still, it matters to me deep down that I was important enough in my mothers eyes for HER to choose to witness my little life unfold first hand. To know that she cared enough to just be present. To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family.

You

Andrewsgal · August 2010

Still, it matters to me deep down that I was important enough in my mothers eyes for HER to choose to witness my little life unfold first hand. To know that she cared enough to just be present. To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family.

You

can

Giggity19 · August 2010

sparky88:
Now, let's say I have NO memories from my early years. Still, it matters to me deep down that I was important enough in my mothers eyes for HER to choose to witness my little life unfold first hand. To know that she cared enough to just be present. To know that my dad valued my mom, and us, enough to support the family. She might hold the majority of my little years in her memory, but I hold them in my heart. In a subconscious way, perhaps. It meant something to me.

Besides being potentially offensive to WMs, this actually makes no sense to me because you have drawn arbitrary criteria between what makes a male parent and a female parent care about or support the family differently. Why do the same criteria not apply to both parents?

sparky88 · August 2010

I was using a specifc example from my childhood to illustrate the point that kids can remember things from their very early years (under age 5). I wrote something positive about the way my parents handled their situation to an audience that reads the SAHM board- and thus catered my post to SAHMs. It seems to make people very uncomfortable with themselves. My post has nothing to do with YOU, your mom, the way you or your spouse choose to parent, working dad, SAH dads, singles, foster parents, or any other parenting situation. I have re-explained this several times. If it truly bothers/offends you then I would suggest that you spend some time reflecting about your life and POV. Some people out there have a chip on their shoulder and feel the need to take it out here.

Once again-- I wrote this "random thought" to try to encourage the SAHMs out there who are questioning their value. When the world tells you "it doesn't matter" keep in mind that it MIGHT matter to your child. You just don't know yet. That is all.

Goodnight and Goodbye

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