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Toddlers: 24 Months+
CarolinaKatie
member
How do I tell friend her child is a bully?
CarolinaKatie
member
I am very stressed about a friend situation. My friend H and I have been friends since we met each other when our 3-year-olds were babies walking in our neighborhood. Since then we got together for playdates, talked on the phone daily, threw each other baby "sprinkles" for our second babies and I'm her 13-month-old daughter's godmother. But slowly over the past year, her son C had become an extreme bully. So much so that my son does not want to play with him. And I can't say I blame him. I put up with a lot of it, but now that I see H becomming lazy and not dealing with C's actions towards my son, it is starting to piss me off and affect our friendship...at least on my side.
I need help figuring out how I should address the situation. Actual talk? In person or phone? Email? And how should I be? I love her. I don't want to lose her friendship, so should we just keep talking on the phone and having moms nights outs and avoid playdates? Also, our sons will be in the same preschool class starting in Sept. That might make it worse or better. (Maybe if the teacher starts telling her he's a bully then it will sink in!).
Let me give examples of what he does. Today we went to a bounce house place together. It is usually one that is not crowded but today a day camp of older kids (like 9-12) were there. C (who turned 3 in March) was fine playing with them. He's like that. My son who is 3 next week would never play on bounce houses with kids that old and I am glad for it! He'd get trampled! So he was a bit shy when we got there and upset that he could not go on his favorite slide because so many big kids were on it (I'm talking 10 at a time!). I pointed him to the 4 and under bounce house and he happily went in. C followed him and proceeded to jump on top of my son when he had laying down. Of course, my son comes out crying and since I saw it, I told H in a nice way that C had jumped on Nathan. She said "Nathan, its a bounce house, people fall on each other. You gotta toughen up, son!" I said as nicely as possible that no, C JUMPED on him purposely. She did not address it.
Later, they went off together to the slides when the big kids left. Nathan came running to me again crying saying "C spanked me" which means he hit him. I said "C hit you? C, why did you hit Nathan?" He just looked at me. H said, "he probably didn't mean to." Now, we did not see it. He could have not meant to. But they were not on the slides yet. They were outside them. No way he accidentally fell on him or anything. If another child said my kid hit him, I'd address it in some way rather than just blowing it off. Another time, I saw C chasing Nathan when Nathan did not want to be chased. C was so close he was stepping on N's heals. Maybe C thought they were playing, but he needs to realize that when Nathan cries, its not a game. Again, H just said something about Nathan needing to toughen up.
Now, I know Nathan is sensitive. He always has been and no we do not baby him. Its just how he is. He's a sweet, caring kid. And I LOVE that about him. Its a much better quality than bullying. And he does not act like that around every kid. There are plenty of friends he loves playing with and does fine with. I think he is truly scared of C! And I can't say I blame him. Every time we play with him, C pushes him, jumps on him, takes toys, etc. I have also seen C do this to his baby sister and H will react to that only if she cries. Its classic bully behavior to watch him. Its like he LIKES making other kids upset.
I grew up with 2 boys next door to us and one was just like this. Now I feel like Nathan is going to have this too because H and I are friends and they live in our neighborhood. I don't want to lose her friendship and I don't want to tell her how to parent. So how should I address this and what should I say? Of course I am going to say something. Today was the last straw. I am just not a confrontational person. Please help! Thanks for reading this far!
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Re: How do I tell friend her child is a bully?
Would it be possible for you to sit down with her and basically say what you said here about your fears, concerns, how much you value the friendship, etc. only to phrase the "your kid is bullying my kid" type language with "my DC is on the sensitive, gentle side and your DC is on the rough and tumble side and they just don't seem to be meshing well - I wonder what we can do to help this situation out?" or something along those lines?
I think as long as you steer clear of any language that she might interpret as negative towards her son, a face to face, low-key conversation could be really productive. GL!
You really should talk to H about it. Maybe when the kids aren't around would be best. Just gently say that as you know N is a little more sensitive than C, but C is just too aggressive for N to enjoy their playtime together.
Once school starts like you said... hopefully things will improve. Most likely there will be a new bully... maybe he will bully C around and leave N alone. Or at least the teacher will be able to help you out when talking to H.
Good luck!
She thinks your son needs to change, not the other way around, and I doubt a conversation about it would be productive. I would attempt to keep the seperated for a while, without coming out and saying anything about it, and if she asks, let her know that N didn't want to play with C because of the way he is treated and you respect his choice. You would like to remain friends with her but don't feel you can force your kid to be friends with someone/spend time with them, if he isn't treated well.
You need to know and believe that by forcing your son to spend time with someone who mistreats him you are teaching him a lesson NOW about his value and worth and what to expect of people that will stay with him a long time.
As for preschool, I wouldn't expect the teacher to "fix" C. The teacher will be responsible for many other kids and isn't likely going to have an eagle eye on this one kid and his interactions unless he goes rogue. And even then, it may not have the affect on your friend that you are hoping it will. She accepts his behavior and does nothing to change it on a daily basis, so it's more likely that she will turn on his teacher than on him.
I hope you find a way to get what you need from this friendship and give you son what he needs from you, which is protection from someone you know bullies him.
You need to know and believe that by forcing your son to spend time with someone who mistreats him you are teaching him a lesson NOW about his value and worth and what to expect of people that will stay with him a long time.
Very well said!! I totally agree. Especially about teaching your son his worth. A TON of parents try to excuse bully behavior and it only gets worse as they get older, if nothing is done.
Hrm. How old is C? If he's 3, as well, I have a hard time agreeing that he's 'bullying'. Maybe I'm off, according to the other posts here, but hitting, pushing, reactionary and sometimes 'rough' play is somewhat age appropriate. I do agree that the mother should be *correcting* said behavior, but personally I think most early to mid-toddler aged kids are kinda jerks (mine included, she always yells "STOP IT!" "I NOT SHARING"! etc, we correct her behavior but she's just over 2, so...?).
I think bully is a little bit of a rough term. He's a product of his parents non-reactions. I think some of the suggestions that the other posters gave are great - have a quiet convo w/ her and just let her know your son is getting kind of afraid of playing with him because yes, your son is a little more sensitive and her's is a little more 'rough and tough' as Larks put it. That's a fair and true assessment.
Another thing I'd like to point out.
As a kid that was bullied, my parents never looked into these issues. Bullying affected my self confidence growing up. I was afraid of challenging others that were unfair, of voicing my opinion. It is more than "you have to learn to deal with others". How is a child that is being bullied going to learn to cope and deal, if they feel unsupported by the very people that are supposed to protect them? Confidence and support go hand in hand.
That being said, I think your "friend" would sing another tune if her kid wasn't the bully. I think this speaks volumes of her respect towards others. Who the hell is she to think your son needs to toughen up? Grrr...this would piss the crap out of me to no end.
You can have a rough and tumble child who does not injure or harrass (following to the point of making another child cry) other children. Maybe you don't want to call this child a bully because you see similar behaviour in your own child or her peers but that doesn't mean it is "normal" 3 year old behavior, nor is it behavior that other kids should be forced to accept.
My child is a tall, sensitive 2 year old with 4 older cousins who can be downright mean. I refuse to stand by and watch him be treated badly for the sake of socializing him. Sure he's big enough to "push back" when shoved, but that's not behavior I want to teach him. What it really says is that I think it's okay for someone to push him and for him to push other people and neither is okay in my book. I refuse to teach him the lesson that other people are allowed to treat him that way. He's worth more than that, and I don't want that behavior in my own home. I work hard to teach him that his actions have an impact on other people and that we do not hurt other people (or ourselves) with words or actions.
For us and our family dynamic, this means we are sometimes left out of family gatherings because my child and I are too sensitive. Fine. I take that and will "suffer" that punishment knowing I'm doing what I can to take care of my kid and in the process teach the other kids that there are consequences to treating others poorly.
Yes, Flo, exactly. I don't think any 3-year-old needs to toughen up! I LIKE that my kid is a bit shy and sensitive. And I should add that I would not really describe him in those terms....only when compared to her kid. And to a previous poster, yes, I would say C is a bully. He has bullish tendencies that I think are just there in him. His parents' parenting doesn't make it better, but it is there to begin with I believe.
And of course I am going to deal with this. I realize it is affecting my son and it is not fair to him for me to place him in this situation just because I am friends with C's mom. She and I have so much in common, we both work from home, have 2 kids, the same age, think the same on a lot of issues, etc. But not parenting. And that is hard. I belive in time out the first time you do something wrong. She does the 3 strike thing. And time outs for him are in his room if they are at home or in her lap if we are out. He can scream and carry on the whole time, then he's just let go. For us, if Nathan is in time out, he has to stay quiet and at the end, hug us and apologize for what he did. Drives me insane at her house when she's having to hold his door shut while he screams and pounds the door during time out. How is that productive?
I digress......I was bullied as a kid by my neighbor and I know it was hard for my mom too as she was friends with his mom. And that kid just had it in him too....same things I see in C already. I need to do something. I talked to my husband to about this and I think I decided to talk with her in a few weeks when we don't have to boys with us. We used to meet for breakfast sometimes when they were in MMO, so I might do that when they start 3K in a few weeks. C will be at N's bday party next week and I WILL step in immediatly if C does anything to bring Nathan down on his birthday! I wouldn't let that happen in a million years!
it is not fair to him for me to place him in this situation just because I am friends with C's mom
You've hit it on the button! Exactly - you cannot ignore his needs just to keep things status quo with your friend.
FWIW - I too have a "sensitive" boy, and my daughter (they're twins) is the aggressive one. We're teaching her not to hit him or lash out just "because". We certainly don't teach him to hit her back either.
Forgot to add - my niece's daughter is 4 and is constantly hitting on my son (he's 3 yrs old) and I've had to talk to my niece about this bullying. If the roles were reversed I know she wouldn't take it too kindly.
Meh, I think most toddlers hit or push at least once or twice in their toddler existence. It's the parents teachings that follow such incidents that help shape and teach the children what is and isn't acceptable. I'm part of several play groups with multiple toddler aged kids and I do see it from time to time, and I don't find it screwy or messed up - the parents always respond with time outs or whatever disciplinary measures they see necessary. I do, genuinely, believe some attitude is pretty natural for toddlers. In like, just because you view your sensitive kid as wonderful doesn't necessarily mean he's the standard toddler either. I don't see kids not wanting to share, raising their voices or throwing tantrums as bizarre toddler behavior. Seriously.
Maybe C pushes the line more, in this instance, and obviously his mother isn't helping, I'm not saying ignore the behavior or that not disciplining this kind of bad behavior is ok - I'm saying I don't think it's ENTIRELY unexpected once in a while. If they get away with it it'll only get worse, but I still think most kids act up sometimes. Give me a break. Going from "zomg your kid is probably a bully and so are her friends because they yell and don't share!" to how you love your child soooo much and how he's better than having to ever have to deal with any animosity is kind of ridiculous. I think you're being uppity. *shrug*
if your kid doesn't want to play with the other boy then don't make him. but at the same time, i have to agree with destea that it's a little out there to label him a full fledged bully right off the bat. if he's not being corrected and disciplined then the problem is the parent. just tell her straight up, but i think it's a little unfair to point to typical toddler behaviors as bullying.
and before someone goes off about how my kid is a bully - she's never actually hit anyone or bitten anyone and shares well.
Give me a break. Going from "zomg your kid is probably a bully and so are her friends because they yell and don't share!" to how you love your child soooo much and how he's better than having to ever have to deal with any animosity is kind of ridiculous. I think you're being uppity. *shrug*
I don't think she came off like this at all. I think she's torn - trying to preserve the friendship but trying to consider her child. I think it's strange when people confuse worrying or over analyzing something as being uppity.
ITA with this. Forcing your kid to be in a situation where he's uncomfortable is not cool or supportive so saying or doing something seems important.
And I'm not of the school of thought that being sensitive is somehow wrong and kids just need to "toughen up" or anything like that. But I think the language you choose when you approach the other parent really makes a difference to how the conversation with the other parent goes.
It's not a completely similar situation but, fwiw, we've been in a situation where DD was the kid who was the "aggressor." She *loves* swimming lessons and playing in the pool at the rec center. She giggles, splashes, and is generally a loud, enthusiastic, active kid at the pool. There was this little boy in her last round of swimming lessons who was noticeably less enthusiastic in the pool but I figured, "Hey, it's Advanced Tots swimming time. Put half a dozen toddlers and their parents in the pool for half an hour and it's going to be very loud and splashy. So it goes."
But it turns out this little boy was terrified of DD. She wouldn't splash him or hit him or anything but when she was, say, the kid next to him when we were doing "backfloat time" her kicking and squealing freaked him out to where he was becoming even more tentative around the water. I only found this out when (from what from my perspective was out of the blue) the other mom approached me about how DD "liked scaring" their DS and enjoyed "waiting to splash him" and "do we discipline her" and all this other stuff that made me feel defensive because I felt like she was assigning all these evil motives to DD that I don't think she has.
DD doesn't sit around in her spare time twirling her moustache and coming up with ways to freak out kids who are more tentative around the water than she is - she's a 2yo not an Evil Genius Shark, kwim? And it's not like DH and I spend our time at home splashing other adults unbidden in order to model what we think is great splashing behavior and/or just generally think it would be cool to have DD scare other kids.
The little boy and his family actually had this whole backstory about how he is tentative around the water but their family had a negative experience with kids and water so it's really important to them that their son feels comfortable around the pool. So now that DH and I are aware of where they're coming from we make sure DD is not around their DS during activities that make him nervous and make a point of working with DD to be more subdued around the boy because we all want to make it a good experience for him too.
But it's still kind of awkward with the boy's parents. I feel like the situation would have gone much better if instead of leading off with how DD "enjoys scaring" her son and "how am I going to deal with her aggression" it had been more like, "Hey, I know your DD is really enthusiastic about the pool and our DS is kind of tentative about it and I'm worried he's getting turned off to swimming lessons. Loud noises and splashing freak him out."
Again, not that I'm saying don't approach the other mom and just have your kid suck it up or anything. I'd just try to bear in mind where she's coming from too.
Anyway, good luck!
Not the original poster, the one who quoted me and said that perhaps I see those bully like tendencies in my own child and her playmates
Goodtobe - wow! Who would have thought!
I must confess I laughed aloud at the "twirling her moustache"..teehee....
I agree with the poster that says that H doesnt see anything wrong with her kids agressive behavior, so pointing it out by saying 'your kids a bully' wont get you anywhere.
My DD is very 'hands on', while she I wouldnt call her a bully I can see how some people could interpret it that way if their kid is sensitive, which you admit that your son is. Some kids just arent going to play well together, they have different personalities and theres nothing wrong with that. My DD will play with a pair of twin boys and they are all quite rough each other, pushing and jumping on each other, but they think its hilarious. Now when DD tries to play with my other friends son she'll sometimes act like this and he just sits there and cries- he doesnt like to play rough and is extremely sensitive. For a while I would just tell no 'no C doesnt like to play like that, you have to have to be gentle' but it got to the point where if she just touched his hand or looked at his toy he would start to whine and my friend would have to move him away from her. It was constant redirecting for both of us.
One day I finally said 'You know, A is a rough player, she plays great with the twins though because they are all nuts! I wish her and C could play together better but isn't it stressful?' and she agreed that C played much better with another friend kid, E, a fellow sensitive kid. So I guess I was in your friends shoes, but I tried to keep the language away from implying anything negative about her son. Now we have play-dates where they dont play as much like going to the aquarium, out to lunch, or on a walk. This way we can still hang out but we dont have to be on top of our kids every single second. As long as our kids aren't in a situation where it's just the two of them playing together, there hasnt been an issue,
So I replied before reading responses but I have to say that I agree with Destea.
And Larks, you are always, hilarious. Twirling her mustache... lmao
BTW I am currently watching an episode of Ni Hao Kai Lan that deals with this exact issue. The monkey and koala bear want to play in a 'gentle way' while the tiger prefers to have fun in a 'rough' way. Kai Lan is unaffected by any of this. Maybe our kids should all aim to be more like Kai Lan and ignore everything else? LOL I just thought it was ironic.
I understand what you are saying, I really do and in most cases I would agree. But C is a bully. I didn't mention it, but even H will admit that he can be. Recently, he has been telling her he doesn't want to go to the gym because kids in the nursery are mean. She said she found that surprising because he is usually the bully. Yes, it is also the parenting. I've seen C's dad tell him to toughen up while treating C's sister like a little "princess." That kind of gender stereotyping is annoying. But I think the "bully" tendency is inate in us just like being shy might be too.
I've come to the conclusion that our kids are oil and vinegar. Sucks since we are friends, but I think from her "toughen up, Nathan" comments that she is annoyed with Nathan's sensitiveness towards C just as I am annoyed with c's bullying toward N. I'm just going to have a straight up talk with her soon. Oh and I have seperated them. They played together at C's sister's bday party in June but that has been it since before my baby was born when the last time this happened happened!
The original post wasn't about a kid who didn't share. It was about a kid who harrassed another kid to the point of crying on more than one occassion and was physically touching another kid in an unwelcome way frequently. Not wanting to share, and throwing tantrums wasn't part of her question, nor part of my response. My kid absolutely doesn't want to share sometimes, but he doesn't push other kids to express that, even before he had words. And I would say throwing a tantrum isn't even in the same relm as what was being discussed -- that doesn't affect anyone besides the kid doing it as long as that tantrum isn't touching anyone else.
You can be defensive about how kids act out but that's not what this post or my response was about.
I know people like the OP's friend, who seem to believe all's fine until someone cries about it and then it was probably the "sensitive" kid's fault. I shared my perspective as the parent of a kid who is the one who gets pushed, or hit, or shoved off the slide. I won't allow someone to treat my child that way in my presence and I'm teaching him it's not okay to treat other's that way either. That isn't about a 2 year old not wanting to share, or throwing a tantrum. It's about not physically harming another person.
That sounds like such a tough spot to be in -- her enjoyment of the water was totally intimidating the other kid but how were you to know if they didn't say anything? It sounds like they let it go on too long without trying to find a happy medium (say putting their kid in a quieter class), and ascribed her motives that were not her own. If my son were ever in that situation, my hubby would totally have to take the blame for teaching him how to splash other people.