More on Popular Names

triple_sevens · July 2010

As you know, names are my semi-professional passion, so I of course have to add to Allison's post!

A lot of first-time parents inadvertently give their children names that are more popular than they anticipated for several reasons. First, not having children, they aren't always familiar with the names currently rising in pre-schools and hospital nurseries (unless they are name geeks like me or avid statistic checkers-- which more and more prospective parents are these days. More on that later).

Second, we generally evaluate a name's "freshness" and originality not based on its position in the charts for baby names, but on it's frequency of occurrence in our OWN generation. So names like Emma, Addison, Henry, and Jayden sound fresh to a lot of parents because there aren't many adults in their 20s-30s with those names. And names come in and out of fashion in four-generation (roughly 100-year) cycles, so we all think the same kinds of names sound similarly fresh and grand around the same time.

It works like this: Your own name is boring (comparatively few Jessicas and Jennifers and Amandas and Jasons being born now); your parents' names are awful (VERY few Barbaras or Loises or Martins); our Grandparents names are kinda-sorta okay (Edith and Louise and Otis have a geeky cool retro charm); but your great-grandparents' names are awesome (Sophia and Max all the way).

After the first kid is born a lot of parent realize that they stumbled into a popular name trap (my BIL and SIL had no idea their daughter Sophia would have two other Sophias in her pre-school class. Of 10 kids). Then they try to branch out and are more sensitive to popularity. But they still tend to pick names with the same popular feel. Again, as my BIL and SIL did.

Now with the rise of statistical monitoring of names' popularity, many parents have also become invested in originality. But they want the name to sound "good" (i.e., in line with current aural taste). So they string together certain syllables that are currently culturally pleasing (Baylee, Kaylee, Raylin, Kylie, etc.) with the end result that, while each specific name may be "rare," taken together all these names sound alike, which mitigates against their intended specialness.

I could talk about this for days. I'm sorry!

-- and attribution needed, of course: much of the hard work of crunching and interpreting name numbers has been done by my boss at the baby na.me w..izard, which is the best website bar none for people interested in names.

KristysRedBarn · July 2010

Very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out for us. So, we have the name Idella picked out for a girl, it's a very old name, will it become popular again soon?

johannaknip · July 2010

You are awesome.

Now I wonder if I need to get Liesl off my list.

Scout05 · July 2010

Very interesting! And it makes total sense.

AppleRidge · July 2010

I feel like I just read a Slate.com article

Very insightful.

JuJuBe3 · July 2010

johannaknip:

You are awesome.

Now I wonder if I need to get Liesl off my list.

Oh, I love that name. Good option!

And thanks for the information, trip! Very interesting and makes perfect sense.

triple_sevens · July 2010

KristysRedBarn:
Very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to type all of that out for us. So, we have the name Idella picked out for a girl, it's a very old name, will it become popular again soon?

Kristy, I think you're safe with Idella. The thing about the great-grandparent name is that people don't actually give the names that *were* the most popular during that period, just the names that *sound* like they *should have been* the most popular. So, in the '10s/ '20s/'30s breezy short nicknames as given names were very popular (like Bobbie and Billie), but Sophia was actually not that common. So now people can name their daughters Sophia, which sounds like it could have been their g-grandmother's name, but not have any associations of the old name with actual old people.

Idella sounds like a very rare, unusual name even in the period (though a novel I'm working on from the 1890s has a character named Ideala). Unless a celebrity seizes on it, I doubt it will take off.

(The inevitability of a crappy celebrity picking the extremely unusual name you just gave your child is a phenomenon we used to joke about on bnw, calling it the Ethel-Mae postulate-- right when you name your daughter Ethel-Mae, Miley Cyrus will do the same thing. So no name is ever 100% safe from celebrity contamination. But Ethel-Mae is pretty close.)

triple_sevens · July 2010

Oh, and Johanna-- I think you are safe with Liesl. It doesn't appear in the top 1000 names for the last 100 years. While it has a trendy "Li" beginning (like Lily, Lila, Lillian), the cluster of consonants at the end are not a popular sound right now. That sound is very Germanic and linked with names like Ethel, Bertha, and Edith which were hot in the '20s but are now not favored (note, I don't think Liesl sounds like those names, but it is part of that name family). Italian sounding girls' names filled with vowels and ending in -a are the sound of the moment (Isabella, Lilianna, Gabriella, Julianna, etc.).

grr_aargh · July 2010

Kristy: We chose Lillian when it was ranked 111th. It's now 27th. We chose Carter (a family surname) when it was ranked 75th. It's now 50th. I can only assume this means that Elsa will soon leave its 691st spot for something much, much higher.

(And FYI: Elsa IS a grandparent's name. )

And since Samuel is already ranked 27th, well, you know, whatever.

Thanks for this names info. I find it fascinating. I also find the need for unique names to be fascinating. I ALSO find Levitt's discussion in Freakonomics about the ramifications of unique names to be VERY fascinating.

AppleRidge · July 2010

grr_aargh:

Thanks for this names info. I find it fascinating. I also find the need for unique names to be fascinating. I ALSO find Levitt's discussion in Freakonomics about the ramifications of unique names to be VERY fascinating.

Indeed. Oliver used to be our choice until I read that book, and they have definitely been proven right as to its future (now current) popularity. And I can't help but think that the trendy Bump names of today (Isla, Finley, etc.) will be the names of the masses tomorrow.

mlmtgg · July 2010

I think Idela and Liesl are gorgeous.

babygirlpriest - where does your semi-professional name knowledge come from? I'm in awe and find it fascinating!!!

triple_sevens · July 2010

grr_aargh:
Kristy: We chose Lillian when it was ranked 111th. It's now 27th. We chose Carter (a family surname) when it was ranked 75th. It's now 50th. I can only assume this means that Elsa will soon leave its 691st spot for something much, much higher.

(And FYI: Elsa IS a grandparent's name. )

And since Samuel is already ranked 27th, well, you know, whatever.

Thanks for this names info. I find it fascinating. I also find the need for unique names to be fascinating. I ALSO find Levitt's discussion in Freakonomics about the ramifications of unique names to be VERY fascinating.

I suspect you are right. The 'LS" sound cluster is an obstacle (as in Johanna's Liesl). But the similarity to Ella is a big point in Elsa's favor. Rhyming variations on names are a major way to predict future popularity. Look at Aiden and all its permutations. Also Madison/Addison. Hailey and all the -aylees.

If Angelina and Brad pick it, it's destined to skyrocket They have raised Maddox, Pax, AND Knox as well as Vivienne onto the charts. (only Shiloh and Zahara linger behind).

ColindaP · July 2010

Thanks for the explanation!

I have a fb friend whose daughters are Maylin and Brylee. Barf.

grr_aargh · July 2010

triple_sevens:
I suspect you are right. The 'LS" sound cluster is an obstacle (as in Johanna's Liesl). But the similarity to Ella is a big point in Elsa's favor. Rhyming variations on names are a major way to predict future popularity. Look at Aiden and all its permutations. Also Madison/Addison. Hailey and all the -aylees.
If Angelina and Brad pick it, it's destined to skyrocket They have raised Maddox, Pax, AND Knox as well as Vivienne onto the charts. (only Shiloh and Zahara linger behind).

I can deal with it. I just am not sure how I feel about being at the front-edge of skyrocketing-name-popularity. But we do have something going for us - our demand that Lillian's nickname be spelled with 2 Ls in the middle and our insistence that all children with 1 L in the middle are actually "LIE-leeee"s. Yeah, we're jerks.

I mean, you already knew that about me.

Still, I feel OK with a name that's NOT top 10 but in the 20s. I figure this way in their school they'll probably just have 2-3 kids in the grade (of which there are 4 classes) with the same name. Although our experience with Lilly so far is that this is not the case. We have, however, met a lot of Carters, which irks me. Since it's a family surname, I feel some sort of ownership. I know it's dumb, but I do.

triple_sevens · July 2010

mlmtgg:
I think Idela and Liesl are gorgeous.
babygirlpriest - where does your semi-professional name knowledge come from? I'm in awe and find it fascinating!!!

I'm actually the semi-pro name nerd, Mindy It comes from a lifelong obsession with names, stalking/commenting on a certain baby name expert's blog for years, and being asked to write an advice column on names with her. Which I am paid for! So professional! But only, like $200 a month. So semi-professional

And I drop a lot of unsolicited info on names at the slightest provocation.

bbhalphen · July 2010

You hit the nail on the head with this one! You should try to publish it.

lindsay.lou · July 2010

I wouldn't mind my child having a popular name as long as it's a normal, classic name (like Emily or Jack).

I would HATE my child to have a popular and cutesy/trendy/new name (like Jaydon or Kylie)

eminbmore · July 2010

Now I'm curious! Can you please tell me about Christopher? We named DS after my FIL, so it has a strong family connection - but like I said in the earlier post, I haven't met any other baby Christophers (generally they are at least 10+, most I know are in their 20s)... but it's still on the top 10 SSA list.

We're also fans of more classic names, that tend to run high in popularity but don't seem to be super trendy (which I put into two different categories - would you agree?), like Claire, Benjamin, Katherine, etc. What's the future for those?

triple_sevens · July 2010

eminbmore:
Now I'm curious! Can you please tell me about Christopher? We named DS after my FIL, so it has a strong family connection - but like I said in the earlier post, I haven't met any other baby Christophers (generally they are at least 10+, most I know are in their 20s)... but it's still on the top 10 SSA list.
We're also fans of more classic names, that tend to run high in popularity but don't seem to be super trendy (which I put into two different categories - would you agree?), like Claire, Benjamin, Katherine, etc. What's the future for those?

Those are all names that have never fallen out of favor, so while they may be popular, they don't sound tied to any one particular era or generation. The nicknames are different (Kitty calls to mind a woman from a different time than Kathy does or than Kate does).

If you look at the popularity graphs for your choices, they're pretty even all across the decades. A name like Brayden, on the other hand, will have a huge mountain spike right in this decade (tying it sound-wise to this era). Names with a strong association to one temporal period (and with a sharply ascending rise) tend to fall out of favor similarly quickly.

Names like Lily, Sophia, and Ada have tailpipe graphs-- up high 100-80 years back, then a big dip, then up high again. So they also sound more tied to specific eras/decades than a name like Katherine or Christopher.

Also-- names have local popularity as well as national. I don't know about the population of Christopher namers (in terms of location, occupation, cultural back ground, etc), but perhaps you're in a local pocket where it is not a favored name. That doesn't really have any bearing on its national significance. And we can all think of examples of names that don't seem nationally over-represented but that we continually encounter in our own neighborhoods or communities.

eminbmore · July 2010

triple_sevens:
eminbmore:
Now I'm curious! Can you please tell me about Christopher? We named DS after my FIL, so it has a strong family connection - but like I said in the earlier post, I haven't met any other baby Christophers (generally they are at least 10+, most I know are in their 20s)... but it's still on the top 10 SSA list.
We're also fans of more classic names, that tend to run high in popularity but don't seem to be super trendy (which I put into two different categories - would you agree?), like Claire, Benjamin, Katherine, etc. What's the future for those?
Those are all names that have never fallen out of favor, so while they may be popular, they don't sound tied to any one particular era or generation. The nicknames are different (Kitty calls to mind a woman from a different time than Kathy does or than Kate does).
If you look at the popularity graphs for your choices, they're pretty even all across the decades. A name like Brayden, on the other hand, will have a huge mountain spike right in this decade (tying it sound-wise to this era). Names with a strong association to one temporal period (and with a sharply ascending rise) tend to fall out of favor similarly quickly.
Names like Lily, Sophia, and Ada have tailpipe graphs-- up high 100-80 years back, then a big dip, then up high again. So they also sound more tied to specific eras/decades than a name like Katherine or Christopher.
Also-- names have local popularity as well as national. I don't know about the population of Christopher namers (in terms of location, occupation, cultural back ground, etc), but perhaps you're in a local pocket where it is not a favored name. That doesn't really have any bearing on its national significance. And we can all think of examples of names that don't seem nationally over-represented but that we continually encounter in our own neighborhoods or communities.

This is awesome, thank you! So so interesting. I can see why it's your thing