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Attachment Parenting
I'm starting to consider CIO
He's up every 1-2 hours all night long and I just can't take it any more. This has been going on for months. I'm starting to get mad at him and that's not right at all. I just want him to sleep for 4 hours by himself in the beginning of the night before I come in there and sleep with him. I feel like I've exhausted every other option. I used to be so anti-CIO, but I'm desperate. What do you guys think, any advice?
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Re: I'm starting to consider CIO
This is what a keep hearing from everyone! that it works great! what exactly did you do?
Well we haven't done CIO and I still have a not perfect, but slowly improving sleeper, and I'm glad we've gone the way we've gone. If you're open to other advice at all can you answer a few questions:
Do you have a bedtime routine?
What is his nap schedule? Does he nap on his own?
Do you cosleep?
Is he teething?
Does your DH help out at all overnight?
Your LO is still so young! I know it's hard - I really, really do. And I remember being at the end of my rope many many times so I certainly won't judge harshly either way, but I'm hoping since you're on the AP board you're open to some other options.
we tried all different techniques, like the "sleep lady" version that has you sitting in a chair next to the crib while your kid tries to go to sleep and you move back a little bit every night until your sitting in the doorway. things like that were okay, but we found the most effective method to be to put him down sleepy but awake. he'd cry and we'd only go in to comfort him in ten minute(ish) intervals if he got really wound up. the crying got shorter and shorter until we were able to give him a big hug and lie him down and that was it. he's 3 now and goes to bed wonderfully and is able to put himself back to sleep if he wakes up in the middle of the night to potty or something.
i have a friend in my moms group that has a 3 1/2 yo who she did not do CIO with and an 18 month old that did CIO. now she is able to put the 18mo down with no trouble, but is still having to rock her almost 4yo.
eta: this is an isolated example and is not meant to imply that all moms who refuse to do CIO are still rocking their kids when they're in the third grade. LOL!
My son isn't sleeping well and he is about the same age (and name!) as yours. Up ever 1-2 hours at the moment and he is almost 8 months.
I have decided to just roll with it, co-sleep and spend my early evenings with him. We cut our cable a few weeks ago and DH and I are reading a lot. We find it to be pretty relaxing to just chill in bed from 8pm onwards and read and then settle DS when he wakes up. If DS really conks out we transfer him to his crib in his own room and have some 'us' time. I bring him back in bed when he wakes up.
I am absolutely open to other options! If you have any!
Do you have a bedtime routine? Yes: bath, book, nursing, sleep (and the problem is not getting him to sleep, it's the multiple night wakings)
What is his nap schedule? Does he nap on his own? he takes 2 naps a day, 1-2 hours each. I have to nap with him as well. Perhaps this is not helping the night situation!
Do you cosleep? He sleeps on a double bed mattress on the floor in his room. I come in and co-sleep with him at around 10 pm. I used to come in around midnight, but over the past month or two, this has gotten progressively earlier because he just won't let me leave (keeps crying if I leave). This is not helping the marriage!
Is he teething? I don't think so, he doesn't have any teeth yet
Does your DH help out at all overnight? No, not at all. We tried to have him help between 7 and 11 pm, Henry cries for bloody murder in his arms and is instantly soothed as soon as take him
We tried that a couple of nights ago! he cried for 2 hours straight! It was no different last night, so we gave up. Maybe we need to persist with that method.
I would just like to say our LOs are the same age, and our DS is up between 2 and 5 times a night as well. He is BF, we co-sleep (he's in a pnp in our room) and bedshare for probably 2-4 hours a night. LO goes down easily but wakes up often to nurse.
I TOTALLY feel you on wanting a change - I've also been considering doing some sort of modified CIO. I go back and forth on it - but now that he's this old I'm terrified that he won't ever sleep. I assumed he would "grow out of it" but EVERYONE is telling me he won't/judging us/treating us like idiots for "letting him manipulate" us.
Anyway - I get you, I'm sorry, and I'll be following the responses!
We just transitioned Emmy to a crib, my H will stand and pat her belly until she falls asleep. It was REALLY hard- she screamed the first night and I grabbed her because I just couldn't take it. Then the next night she cried even louder, and giggled when I rushed over. After that, I realized I was just making it worse by "rescuing" her from daddy. She was being comforted by him, he was talking to her in gentle voices, touching her, etc- she was MAD that it wasn't mama, but she wasn't scared, kwim? I couldn't do (and still haven't) done full CIO because I think she would be scared, and I'm not okay with that.
It is NOT an easy/quick fix- she still wakes up several times a night. The difference is that it's not just me doing it, my H can help.
I agree with Cindy that having your DH help is definitely the way I would start before doing full on CIO. Crying with daddy is ok (though killer to listen to). I also had some success starting the Pantley pull-off (from No Cry Sleep Solution) at this age. It's to help the nurse to sleep association. I can go into more detail if you want. We were the same way in that DS would fall asleep easily on his own but needed me to nurse him back to sleep over night and I wanted to get him used to falling asleep on his own overnight.
A few other ideas:
offer the breast more often during the day - it's normal for babies this age to be too distracted to eat and reverse cycle a bit
maybe try to get down to only sleeping with him for 1 nap a day to help him get used to sleeping a little more independently
try getting him to take a lovey - DS has a light-up singing seahorse that he really likes, no clue if it helps him sleep better but it definitely doesn't hurt
I just wanted to jump in with my experience... DS was a horrible sleeper from about 2.5 months to 5.5 months. He was awake every 30 minutes to an hour at night, so I completely understand how exhausting it is. We didn't do CIO but DS did get progressively better. He was reaching a lot of milestones during that time and getting his first tooth. He then started sleeping for 2-3 hours, which is a vast improvement
We did try the routine and all of that - I think that did help, but it sounds like you are doing that already.
Do you think you could be putting him down too early? DS will wake more often if he's not tired enough. I know that often counters what others say about being over-tired. However, at his current age, if I put DS down at 8, he will wake up every two hours. If I put him down at 9 or 9:30, he will sleep for 6. So I don't know - it might be worth a try.
I would also try giving him motrin or tylenol before bed and see if that helps him sleep. If so, it could be a teething issue or some other pain issue. I'm convinced babies have growing pains but I think that might just be my theory
Around 7 months seems to be a rough spot sleep wise. At 7 months my LO would only fall asleep if I was with him, and I could not move him to his crib once he was asleep. If I got up for any reason he would wake up and wouldn't go back to sleep unless I was laying down with him. Thankfully, I was pregnant at the time and EXHAUSTED so I just went to bed at 8 with him every night. I needed the rest so it wasnt a big deal. I am anti CIO for our child so it wasnt an option. I'm glad I waited it out because around 9 months a light switched and he was fine with me moving him to his crib at night. He was still welcome (and still is) in our bed if he woke in the night and that seemed to be enough for him.
I didn't read all of the responses so I don't know if anyone else brought this up but perhaps its the double bed? Thats an awful lot of room for a little guy all by himself. Maybe he is feeling a little insecure? Dark room, all by himself in a big bed, no mommy in sight. I get it. Maybe he would be a little more comfortable with a crib?
If you choose to do CIO, please read up on the various options and understand what you are trying to accomplish and if it's age appropriate. Of course based on your responses and original post, I assume this would be an 'of course!' from you. Just thought I would preface that before I give you non-CIO advice.
There are many sleep regressions for many reasons. There is a well-known one around 9 months related to skills and separation anxiety. Some babies hit this as early as 7 months and some as late as 11 months. Rule out a sleep regression before trying CIO.
Also if your baby has no teeth, there is a real possibility that teething may be around the corner. The most painful part of teething is way before you can see the tooth erupt through the gum line. Rule out teething (try motrin or tylenol) before CIO.
Sleep can be disrupted because of milestones. If your baby is learning to sit, army crawl, babble, etc right now, you may want to hold off on CIO.
Other things that disrupt sleep include change in routine (like vacations, busy time of year), hours of sunlight (try black out shades), growth spurts, illness and a variety of other things. Rule these out before trying CIO.
With that, I suggest reading NCSS. Here are many things that helped us teach Cooper how to sleep longer than 45 min without my boob in his mouth:
-White noise. He kept waking up because he would hear a variety of noises and ocean sounds helped keep him asleep.
-Lovey and a blanket with my smell. He was comforted by my smell so I got him a lovey (he picked it out) and wore it in my bra for a few days. I also slept on a receiving blanket for a few nights and gave it to him while he slept.
-Adding more calories during the day by offering food/BM every hour during the day. As he got more distracted during the day, he needed to be prompted to eat, rather than completely relying on nursing on demand.
-Remove suck to sleep association using Pantley's pull off method.
-Have my husband try to soothe for 10 min, then 15, then 20. This moved the wake ups back by just a few minutes and my DS learned to tolerate daddy soothing as well as mommy soothing.
-Have the same sleep expectations for napping as night time sleep. He had the same routine, the same sleeping place, and had to sleep independent. Maybe try weaning cosleeping during naps to help with night time sleep?
I think you've already gotten some really good advice. But I wanted to share my story real quick. DD was a horrible sleeper. Starting at birth, she was up on average 6 times a night. We had plenty of stretches when it was every hour like your LO. Some nights, she woke up and wanted to play at 4:00. We were miserable. DH and I argued quite a bit about using/not using CIO. We'd already tried everything else we could thing of! We moved her into her crib in her room at about 8-9 months thinking it would help. It didn't. Then some random day at almost 12 months, she slept through the night. We couldn't believe it! I was sure it was a fluke! Then she did it again the next night. And the next night! She just seemed to grow out of the night waking. It's been over 4 months now and there have been only a handful of nights when DD hasn't slept for 10-12 hours! So I just wanted to let you know that I've been there. A lot of us have been there. And we know how really, really frickin' hard it is! But now, I'm so glad that I didn't use CIO. I stuck to what I believed was right for us and now DD is a great sleeper! I know this isn't what everyone chooses, but I wanted to tell you about the happy ending to our story. And it really will get better. I promise.
You've gotten some great advice, but I guess what would your goals be with CIO? Solo sleeping? Falling asleep on his own? No nursing to sleep? No rocking to sleep? No wake ups during the night? Limited wake ups? Limited nursing at night?
In my adult brain, going from co-sleeping/nursing to crying until you figure out to sleep on your own seems like a really rough transition all at one time. Are there associations you believe are causing the wake ups? If so, I'd try to start breaking those associations first and be clear on what your goals are when you start.
Also, I'd double check that it's not medical (ear infection etc.) or teething (which is hard to, ummm, verify but are there other symptoms?)
Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.
Thank you so much for everyone's responses! Very very helpful and encouraging! I am going to hold off on the CIO for now and try out all of your suggestions. We are starting with having DS cry to sleep in daddy's arms. This is very difficult to hear, but surely not as bad as crying alone. I will also offer the boob to him more during the day and try having him take at least one nap by himself. I already do the pantley pull off and this has worked a little bit, but he still wakes up frequently. I think I may need some white noise in there as well. We used to use the sleep sheep, but then it broke and we never got any replacement.
As far as putting him to bed later, this is an interesting suggestion. Perhaps he needs 3 naps instead of 2? I think I will try this out as well. Also, maybe it's time to ditch the floor bed and move him to the crib. I am going to try out all of these over the next few weeks and hopefully we have some improvement!
this is all awesome advice. i just want to let you know that i never did CIO with my now 2-year old and it does get better. she goes to bed all on her own, without tears. it's a happy time. i have a 7 month old who is now going through sleep regressions like your kiddo. my advice would be to stick it out, try the suggestions listed above, and be patient. once you are on the other side of the sleep problems, you can look back with perspective and see it for what it really is: a baby who needs you for comfort.
side note: another thing that helped me was to remove the clock from my room. i found i was less angry when i didn't know what time it was for some reason!
Thank you!!!!!
When I step back and think about what I feel and how my husband and I think about it all - I don't really mind the night wakings. Sometimes I'm more tired and grumpy but I'm committed to being there for my baby during this time when he is so dependent on us and changing so rapidly.
I think it's time to start politely telling people that my baby's sleep is none of their business. I notice it gets harder the more others are telling me "it doesn't have to be this way" like I'm just an idiot who doesn't sleep for no reason.
Well, he smells you. Especially if you have to sleep with him during nap time as well. This is a good time to try other methods or he is going to continue this pattern well into his toddler years! If that's ok with you and hubby, go on, but since you are posting about it, I assume its not. CIO is hard for lots of parents, especially when they are younger. With my daughter, she slept through the night after 1 month old, so I was lucky there, I also did not breastfeed though. With my son, I breastfed, and he slept in my room, but not with me the entire time. I found if I was not in the room or he slept in his crib in his room, he couldn't smell me and slept longer. You are your sons comfort. Someone mentioned starting in the room and slowly moving your chair out, this is a good method. Other than that, CIO is the next method to me, or finding other things that can soothe him. But you staying by him during naps is really not helping.
I am not a full attachment parent as well, so please consider more ideas from the ladies above. With my new little one, I plan to have her sleep in our room until 6 months or longer if she is still waking. I am breastfeeding exclusively this time around and do not want her waking my older daughter during the night. But I rarely co-sleep, only when I don't feel like moving them.
See! This was a good response. Go with what you believe in!
My son slept like that. I eventually had to embrace the 'no clock sleep solution'. Turn the clock around, sleep topless and just learn to kind of nurse in my sleep. Around 12 mos I would make him wait to nurse (sing him a song before I nursed him) and that cut back his waking dramatically. I did the same thing with my little girl probably around your sons age and it helped a lot, too! I think she just had to realize that she could go back to sleep without nursing. I would just sing a verse of a song and if she was calming down even a tiny bit I'd keep singing. If she was crying more then I'd nurse her.
I also involved my DH a lot more. She only got him if she woke earlier than a certain time (can't remember now... but not late like maybe 7-10 or something).
Hang in there. My 4 year old (who woke like your son) is now an awesome sleeper and was never left to cry alone.