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Babies: 9 - 12 Months
CIO=Makes sleep worse? I am about to rip my hair out.
I have been having sleep issues for weeks. I finally asked pedi for advice last week and was told it was time to let her CIO b/c she wouldnt go back to bed and wanted to get in our bed after her bottle. He said she shouldnt be having a bottle anymore, either. Well fine. He warned me first night would be hard and it would get progressively better. Well, first night she cried 35-40 min before going back down. Next night it took an hour and 15 min. The an hour and a half. Last night she woke at 4 am and cried for over two hours and didnt really go back to sleep at all. Now tonight she cried when I put her down, which she wasnt even doing in the first place. WTF? Is CIO supposed to make it worse. I would go back to giving her the bottle but the problem was she wouldnt go back to sleep after the bottle like she always used to. Now the pedi make it f&cking worse. Please help if you have any experience with this.
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Re: CIO=Makes sleep worse? I am about to rip my hair out.
are you doing a method or just extinction CIO?
Ferber says that for the first few nights, the child should go to bed later than they usually do so that they're really tired, and if they wake up between 5-6 a.m., get them up for the day. We did Ferber when J was 5 months old - but only to cut out 2 of his 4-5 night feedings. I think we're going to do it again next month b/c he's still eating 2-3 times per night and he's almost 9 months old. He's peeing through his clothes a lot, and it's just not worth it.
Maybe extinction CIO is too hard on your DD - maybe b/c of separation anxiety? Ferber might work better with the controlled intervals of going in to check on her. I recommend it if you haven't read it! GL!
You let her cry for two hours straight in the middle of the night?
Anyway... we have been doing CIO with Kai (was waking 7 times a night) and in three nights he is now down to waking once. I can handle that. He still needs to eat and still needs some contact in the middle of the night. The longest I let him go is maybe, maaaybe 15 minutes. Thats it. Any longer, and he needs me, and I need to tend to him.
Malakai - 8.3.09
Ezra - 12.1.11 ASD
I want to but there is still the issue of what to do after the bottle when she wont go back down. Let her CIO after the bottle? But then I'd be sending mixed signals.
We're still soothing G (rocking, patting his back, whatever) if he doesn't go right down after the bottle. I'm not comfortable letting him CIO personally, and I don't think he would do well that way anyhow. Will she go to sleep if you lay her down and rub her back or something along those lines?
I agree with Jimsgirl. If she's crying for two hours, I would just assume she's hungry and feed her. Then put her back in and let her CIO - IMO it's not sending mixed signals. You're making sure all her needs are definitely met and, once they are, putting her back down and letting her get to sleep on her own.
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For weeks we tried picking up and rocking, putting in crib and rubbing back, sound machines, lovies, sending DH in instead of me cause she doesnt cry when he leaves like she does with me, putting down asleep, putting down drowsy. She wouldnt stop until she got what she wanted, we'd give up and bring her in bed.
This.
Thank you I will just go with this tonight. The only reason I stopped the bottle was when I asked pedi when it comes to CIO how do I know when she's crying for a bottle and when its to get in my bed? He laughed and said she should NOT have a bottle and I need to cut that out, too. Now I feel horrible she was hungry last night and I didnt give her anything. I thought she was done with the bottle cause sometimes she used to STTN here and there so I thought bottle was more habit.
DD still gets up a couple of times a night to nurse, and I let her. She is skinny, and eats a lot during the day, so if she wakes up hungry in the night then I feel it is because she is hungry. CIO and ferber are not for me. I also still nurse her before bed (sometimes she falls asleep and sometimes she doesn't but then DH puts her in bed and she protests a bit and then falls asleep). When DD screams like that when we put her down (and we know she isn't hungry anymore, and has a clean diaper etc.) it is usually from teething.
Look into other sleep training methods that will make you more comfortable - find what works for you.
Yeah, he said "If it's time to go to bed the next night and she's still crying, it's too long" He reassured me the first night she's cry alot but by night three she's be sleeping.....yeah thanks doc. I am so confused now.
and you need to read the book first if you want to effectively CIO. going to her door and just talking to her to soothe her every 10 minutes is NOT CIO. i am not anit-CIO...but i'm anti just making stuff up, even if you are a pedi.
DD - February 2011
Don't beat yourself up about it - it's not your fault at all. You went with what should be good advice since it was coming from your pedi. Ours gave us the same spiel and we tried to stop the night feedings but DS still definitely needs to eat at about 4am. In the end, he's just the doctor, not the parent. While most 8 month-olds probably don't need to eat in the night, some still do. Mine is one of them, and it seems like yours is too. Hope it goes better for you tonight.
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Thank you. Now I feel so bad and kinda pissed at pedi.
That's a crock of shiit. Pedi's are not sleep experts, but unfortunately they spoon out this crap like they are.
She has been in her crib since she was 2 months with absolutely no problem. She had one night she wasnt going back to bed and I had to get up for work so I brought her in bed with me. I wasnt normally co-sleeping or anything. She doesnt sleep in the bed, she would only sleep on me if I was sittng up. I love my baby but I cant sit up straight in bed everynight and not sleep so I can hold her. DH works 3rd shift and is onlty home 1-2 nights a week so he's not around to help. All of a sudden, that is what she wanted everytime I fed her a bottle overnight. I am not comfortable falling asleep with her on me, I am afraid she will roll off or something.
I would get a new pedi. I am sorry that you are experiencing sleep issues and I hope you and your daughter find a solution so you both can get some rest.
Pedi told me go talk to her every ten minutes. Honestly, going in seemed to make it worse. Like she was pissed I came in and didnt pick her up. I tried handing her stuffed animals. Just wasnt picking her up or anything.
I agree with this. Our pedi told us the same thing - that she didn't need to eat overnight anymore. We were able to use Ferber to get her to go to sleep at night and eliminate most of the night feedings, but DD still needs to eat once around 3-4am, so I feed her. She's also 8 months.
This! YOU know what is best for your LO, not necessarily your pedi. And pedis differ drastically in what they say about many issues, including night feedings.
We did CIO and I remember reading this about it: It will get WORSE before it gets better! Hang in there!
I would try making smaller bottles (say 4 oz instead of 6 or whatever) at whatever point she wakes and go from there. Does she take a paci?
No she started refusing it arounbd 3 mos and even before that could take it or leave it. In the overnight bottle she sucks down 8.5 oz.
I think your pedi is a piece of shiit. I can't believe he laughed. That does NOT help make you feel any better. Ditto pp's, get a new doctor.
As for the sleep issues we ended up doing straight CIO as our last resort. I always heard people say the same thing. "Oh, it was rough the first 2 or 3 nights and after that she would sleep from 7-7!" Yeah, a bunch of BS I tell ya! It took almost a week before DD would cry less than 20 min. before falling asleep. It made me extremely frustrated thinking that it wasn't working but we kept at it. We made sure to remain consistent with that as well as bedtime in general. Same routine, same time, same everything. We've barely gone out at night this past month but it's paid off. 45 min. before bedtime we did quiet play, bathttime, BF, and sleep. We kept all lights off so it was pitch black and had the fan and white noise on at the same time. Once I placed her in the crib I would immediately start giving her kisses on her cheek and patting her back and that seemed to calm her down. I would continue patting her as I pulled up the crib railing. I did this every night. She now sleeps pretty well. At least 4+ hours, which is a lot for us!
In the end, do what you feel is right. Your pedi, Bumpies, friends, families, can tell you whatever they want. And it can be frustrating being inundated with all these different advice. Decide what works best for you and remember that if you're child's not ready than she's not ready. You shouldn't force her to fit into a mold.
Ok. So I would start dropping gradually - giver her 7 or 8 ozs instead.
My 10 month old just went through a really rough sick time and teething and we were at his mercy the past 5 weeks... as he was supposed to be getting better, he was still waking and fussing, but then hysterically crying. After rocking every hour and such, my mom suggested that maybe he was growing and needed another bottle. For two nights, it was exactly what he needed and now is back to sleep through better.
Every child is different. I know that for my first child, we used the Sleep Lady method which is that you can sit next to the crib, talk to them and reassure, no eye contact for three nights and progressively move to being outside their doorway. It worked for him. With this DS, it was horrible. He is a tactile child which means he craves touch and that is really what calms him. Seeing someone who wouldn't touch him made him hysterical and then he was throwing up from the hysterics. So, as far as getting him down to bed, I am still rocking him, but I will also put him in his crib and leave his room with his soother on so he can get used to that and come back in when he cries to rock him.
Sleep sucks and sleep training is really really hard. I couldn't do CIO AT ALL. Listening to them cry and not go to them was torture. You have to do what you think is the right thing since each child is different. There are other methods.... go to the library and check out some sleep books and see what makes sense to you. It is sooo hard to be sleep deprived and trying to figure this out, so I am wishing you the best....and just think... your DD won't go to college without knowing how to get to bed and how to sleep for really long intervals!!!
This.
i think this definitely IS sending mixed signals. you're saying "Sometimes when you cry I'm going to come hold you and feed you, but sometimes i'm not".
try going into her room an hour before she normally wakes to eat and giving her a bottle then. each night decrease the # of ounces in that feeding by one, until you are eventually weaned from all feedings. that way if she wakes and cries you know it's not hunger.
Thank you, this makes me feel better. I actually had a panic attack the other night over this I was so stressed. I was so worried she would wake and I didnt know what to do with her.
The thing is, she never gets up at the same time. It ranges from 12:30 pm to 4 am and sometimes not at all so I wouldnt know when to go in.....
I haven't read all the replies & I don't post on this board much, but I recommend picking up Ferber's book & reading the night weaning chapter.
My son is a gawd awful sleeper. He has an extremely bad case of reflux & food allergies that have led to bad sleep, plus all the normal baby developmental stuff. Anyway, he was reverse cycling (nursing more at night than during the day) really badly for awhile - literally nursing every hour or 2 & refusing pumped BM bottles during the day. I used Ferber's night weaning method, modified it a little to keep him from getting to upset (we're not into CIO, plus crying means DS is up for hours b/c he gets really worked up & pukes), & had the night feeds cut in half w/in less than a week.
Read the chapter on scheduling too - another thing was that DS was sleeping too much during the day, which was causing him to have a long wakeful period at night. I cut a little off nap time & moved bedtime an hour later. Problem solved.
8-9 months is a bad stage for sleep. There is a regression around this age b/c of all the new milestones & separation anxiety. Sleep training may or may not help & if separation anxiety is part of your LOs problem controlled crying can make it worse. Maybe try some other things first & see if you can make some progress since CIO seems to be backfiring.
HTH & GL. No sleep sucks.
I disagree with your pedi. You don't need to do CIO if you're not comfortable with it. We didn't. There is no magic age when feedings need to stop. DS sometimes still nurses (or gets a bottle if DH gets him) at night, and he's 10.5 mos. I can't imagine leaving him to cry in his crib for two hours.
( I would be crying, too.
I have heard of Bumpies (though I can't remember which ones right now) who have had success with the No-Cry Sleep Solultion or the Sleep Lady. There are "gentler" sleep training methods. I know that DS would be just like your DD and would NOT respond well to any form of CIO. He will continue to cry and cry without giving up. If we were to decide to sleep train, we'd definitely go for a no-cry method.
Good luck!!
Some babies cannot CIO- it will not work. I know people preach it as a cureall, but it's not.
Sometimes you just need to ride it out, I'm afraid. You don't hear about four year olds waking up for a bottle at night.
It will get WAY WORSE before it gets better. Hailey used to STTN (10-11 hrs), then we used CIO to break the swaddle and take away her paci. The first night took her 2 hours of fussing and crying to get her to sleep. Then she woke early and didnt fall asleep again but cried for 2 more hours. BUT at night 4, she slept through the night for about 12 hours with ZERO crying and ZERO waking up.
It will get better, I swear.
PS-DD is 6.5 months.