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susanmosley
member
health care reform (clicky added)
susanmosley
member
I would love to hear why YOU do or don't like the new health care bill. I have some strong opinions but KNOW and ADMIT that there is a lot in this department that I don't know about. I would love to read some of your thoughts and opinions to give me some more areas to consider and research. Thanks!
and for fun, I am ETA a clicky poll.
[Poll]This discussion has been closed.
Re: health care reform (clicky added)
I do not support the bill because it is unconstitutional on many levels. I also feel that it will significantly weaken the quality of healthcare over time.
All this, plus it will raise my family's taxes.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe the healthcare industry and esp. insurance industry needs reform and an 'extreme makeover' but this bill doesn't do any of that. Its a generic band-aid to appease certain people.
I am incredibly disturbed by how far this bill oversteps the boundaries of the Constitution. We plan to homeschool and my biggest fear is that the gov't will say that they won't give student loans to homeschoolers. Not to mention all the health care BS. I totally agree that some things (prior conditions, lifetime/yearly caps, no mandates for fertility coverage, etc) need to be changed, but this is NOT the way to do it.
This! Here are the ways I think healthcare should be reformed, properly. These are from a Senate candidate in California, Chuck DeVore.
"-- Allowing interstate competition between health care plans.
"-- Revising the tax code to reward and encourage purchases of coverage and healthcare saving.
"-- Curtailing junk lawsuits that drive up healthcare costs -- and not coincidentally, line the pockets of Democratic contributors.
"-- Attack fraud in medical billing.
"-- Encourage a restructuring of American health insurance toward an individual-policy market rather than an employer-mandate system.
I could not agree more. While I don't plan to HS I have friends that do. Now the govt mandates that we have to have healthcare, what is next? You have to send your kids to school? You have to parent this way?
DH and I had a long conversasion about it being unconstitutional last night so I could go on and on, but I won't.
I agree. And it's not one of the few; it's the ONLY.
Unless there's some part of that bill that makes this illegal, I fully expect the insurance companies to go bsc raising rates on anyone that is already in a plan, employer-sponsored or otherwise. And I'm ok with that trade off for what we're getting. The bill makes it illegal to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. It expands healthcare for poor children. It helps families who WANT insurance be able to get it.
While I don't think it's perfect (from what I've read), I do think it's a step. The insurance companies in this country are the ones who need reformed.
ETA - in case it wasn't clear, we do have insurance, through DH's job, and we don't pay a dime for premiums - it's part of the benefit package - but they do show up on his checks (he gets an allowance, then they deduct the premiums). The premiums are more than 1/3 of his base pay. That to me is ridiculous. We also spend close to $200/mo for prescriptions and co-pays and we have good insurance.
ah, thank you for the clarification.
i dont know much on this subject, but to me there is a level of security knowing that if my husband loses his job and we are still above the poverty line we can buy into a plan and our daughter will still have access to healthcare.
We are also the leader in medical technology & specialization. That is why people flock here in droves for procedures not available elsewhere.
At least 36 state legislatures so far have proposed measures to challenge the constitutionality of this bill-- that speaks volumes.
It doesn't fix the root issue. I'm for aspects of this bill but not all aspects. I also have to admit to not having read the entire bill myself. We all see the propaganda on both sides play out in the media but I'm not sure that everyone has really read this bill.
I think the term 'unconstitutional' is being thrown around a lot. People tend to follow the lead of what they read in the media or with what the party they are aligned with is saying.
In this case, there certainly is an argument about the 9th and 10th amendment - the rights of the government being able to 'force' a citizen to pay for and retain the commercial services of a private entity or else, penalizing that person (in this case, I believe it is 2% of income via IRS).
At this point, the commerce clause has not applied to insurance companies in the past and was left to the states to be regulated. But, there is precedent for the SC allowing congress to regulate economic activity. The issue is in whether congress can financially or otherwise penalize a person for not partaking in the economic activity (purchasing insurance).
One could argue all day about this, and I'm sure there will be many long days of arguing about this. It can be interpreted either way, but I suspect that the supreme court would uphold it.
I think that people often times get very riled up and "fearful" based on media and political party hype. That's not to say that one shouldn't educate themselves - but I would do that via a third party or reading the bill yourself - not what fox news or the NY times has to say.
THIS. 100%. I completely disagree with the bill. I think quality of care is going to take an EXTREME nosedive. I don't believe people will get the quality care or timely procedures/help that they deserve when needed, based off of how it will work.
The whole idea of allowing parents to keep their children on their health insurance until they're 26 YRS OLD (and MARRIED EVEN!) is ludicrous. Talk about breeding a generation that most likely, won't see much potential in "getting out on their own at a decent age" because they can rely on mom and dad if they let them. Of course, if they have a job that provides healthcare, they cannot be on the parents insurance anymore - but come on! Ridiculous!
Not to mention, NEVER in the history of our country, have the people been FORCED to buy or accept goods they don't want. Now, for the first time ever, we are being told "this IS what you will do or you'll be fined by the IRS" - I'm sorry, but that in itself is socialism even if you want to say other parts of it aren't.
Actually, people are flocking out of the US for medical procedures because of the high cost. I know many people within my own friend and family circle that have went to Thailand and other countries for medical procedures.
While I don't mean to sound snarky, since we are entitled to our own opinions, talking about the US as a leader is like saying "we're number 1, USA, USA, USA" ... I mean, it's patriotic and all but not entirely accurate.
The Common Wealth Fund, amongst others, have initiated many studies/surveys of healthcare system amongst developed nations and the US ratings have slowly been slipping over the past two decades.
Key signs about the state of our healthcare system are in our mortality rates. We continue to die younger and younger compared to other developed nations. I could go on and on about this.
Yes, our country develops a lot of technology and cures but the way in which our healthcare is implemented is among the least effective according to study after study. It's pretty sad.
I'm not so moved by 36 legislatures being up in arms over the bill - it's natural because of what this bill asks of them and the fact it takes insurance company regulation away and places the economic activities/inactivities under federal government.
First, I must admit that I do not know most of the details of the health care plan. However, I do have an opinion!
I am sure there is a WHOLE lot wrong with the new plan. But, I feel that (almost) any plan is better than no plan at all. I think that getting a plan in place is a great start. I fully expect that this plan will be changed and tweaked and revamped and all that as the problems become evident. I hope, that within a few years, there will be a plan in place that actually works well and solves a lot of the problems that exist within our healthcare system.
Also, forgot to mention:
I have family in Canada that are on this type of healthcare program. They do NOT like it! They said the worst mistake the US could make, is following suit. Why?
Because quality of care HAS decreased significantly. People are going untreated, misdiagnosed and not receiving the proper care and attention. One example - a family member was diagnosed with breast cancer. It took them SIX months to get her started on the proper treatment because of how backed up everything is - she could have avoided a double masectomy had she been treated in a proper and timely fashion.
So to me, ok - everyone has healthcare - but it's crappy and more people are going to be getting sick and dying because of this. (another issue they're looking at is changing womens annual OBGYM exams to being once every TWO years vs. annually. That can be devastating to some womens health - I think it's horrible. They're looking to cut corners and to try to make "everyone happy" but they're really doing our entire country a disservice in the long run, IMO.)
(And people may flock out of country due to cost of medical procedures at times, but there's so many botched surgeries done out of the country too, I don't think I'd be willing to stake my life on hoping that for a cheaper price, I can get just as good of a surgery or procedure done as I could in the US. Another issue for why our generations are dying younger - the biggest issue - is obescity. No healthcare reform is going to cure that one. That's on us as individuals to take better care of ourselves and our children and families. So many studies have shown the huge decline we've had in living active, healthier life styles and because of that, we're coming down with heart problems, joint issues, blood pressure probs, depression - you name it - the list goes on!)
So kumbaya of you. And i 100% agree
I am 100% against this , infact this whole topic makes me so upset and aggrivated that I try not to think about it.
To be honest, I've been over here on this board more because the NJ board has gotten way too political for me.
I agree with you! And I am also afraid it will get really political here and my blood will start boiling.
Anyway, good debate from both sides is good, but I think I am done.
I believe so strongly that every person in this world deserves basic health care, housing, and nutrition. I think it's embarrassing in such a rich country that we have people who would like to have preventative health insurance, but cannot afford it. I have health insurance and I've never had a lapse in health insurance. Although I don't agree with everything in the health care bill that was passed, I understand that politics is incredibly complicated and getting excactly what I want is not going to happen, but it may get closer to what I would design myself over time.
We are all required to pay into Social Security becuase it benefits all of us, I feel the same way about health care - we all benefit from having everyone covered and reducing the amount of people who use the emergency room as their only health care.
The constitutional issues I've heard discussed related to state constitutions so that may be part of that issue.
TTC #2 since April 2012
Year 1 - nothing
Year 2 - two m/c
Year 3 - unexplained diagnosis & 4 failed IUIs with Clomid/Letrozole
Year 4 - still unexplained & 3 failed IUIs with Follistim & Ovidral
Year 5 - trying on our own
Thanks for the conversation, everyone!
While on the surface is appears that my coverage won't be impacted and my taxes will not go up...the downstream impact of these changes is that everyone who currently has group insurance is probably going to see a substantial increase in their rates. (I would bet money on it. Lots of it.)
of the
bill provides that the government will extract a fee of $6.7 BILLION
annually from insurance companies. What an insurer pays is dependent
upon their share of net premiums plus 200% of their administrative
costs. So if their net premiums and insurance costs are equal to 10% of
the $6.7 billion, they will pay the government $670 million
dollars...in one year. In the reconciliation bill being presented to
the Senate, the fee starts at $8 billion in 2014 and goes up from there.
There are similar "fees" that will be extracted by the government from
the pharmaceutical companies and medical device companies.
I think we need TRUE insurance reform, malpractice law reform, and increased medicaid/medicare reform...rather than this bill which wraps up a ton of special interests under the guise of health care.Section 1003 of the bill says that any rate increase can be reviewed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services and can be denied (although I don't understand this -- this is the job of insurance commissioners in individual states currently and I think the issue of state sovereignty comes into play here).
HOWEVER...it's in the government's best interest to APPROVE a rate hike, considering Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and
This would potentially make a huge impact on reserves, which an insurance company has to have in order to pay catastrophic claims, so really the government has no choice but to let the insurance companies increase rates.
So on the surface, I agree there will likely be no change to my coverage and I won't have increased taxes...but I don't doubt that my already high insurance rates will skyrocket when these fees start being "extracted" by the government. They were buried pretty deeply and not talked about much. Too bad Dunkin Donuts (and other companies) lobbyists managed to bargain their way out of the sugar tax that was proposed to fund the healthcare bill.
funny thing is, I don't know one person in real life who is for this.
Anyway, I agree, its an interesting debate, but I too am done.
I will disclaimer my whole response by saying that I have not read the bill, nor do I have any plans to.
However, I could not agree more with the bolded parts above. I think it's really easy for people who have health insurance to say that they are against this. I was laid off and lost my health coverage and can't afford the almost $500 per month (!!) that it would cost to add me to my DH's plan. Fortunately, the kids are covered. Also, I would still be for some version of this bill even if I still had health insurance. I think it's disgraceful that so many people in this country go without basic health coverage because it's become such big business and people can't afford it.
I'm 100% for it! It's not perfect, but we need to start somewhere. People need to wake up and stop being so self-asorbed.
We can all sacrafice a little to help the greater good rather than people or worse kids having to sacrafice their LIFE because we wouldn't help.
you have really touched upon my feelings here. i cant help but think if my husband were to lose his job than my family would have no health insurance and we would still have enough money in savings and wiould not qualify for medicaid. this is why i am for this.
People are forgetting two important things about this:
1- You MUST get coverage and it is NOT free. It is not like the government is "giving" people health care. They are giving you access to it which must be done if they are making it mandatory that you carry it.
2- There is NOTHING in the bill about cost control. Nothing.
ETA: By "people" I am referring to the public in general not anyone specific on the boards.
I like it because people with pre-existing conditions will now be covered. I have a friend with a chronic health problem (but it's just her foot!) that has her own business and she could not get health insurance. She's a well-paid professional, but so much of her income was eaten away by medical bills.
How many people stay in jobs they hate because they worry about coverage otherwise? The bill is kind of a clunker, but it's a first step. I'm super happy about it.
ETA: if anyone wants to read an excellent analysis of our country's health care problems, this article is the best I've seen:
https://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande