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Solids questions - tongue thrust, interest, timing, etc...
We are continually having problems getting A to eat enough and stay full long enough to get more than 2-3 hour stretches at night. I talked to the pedi yesterday and asked her a few questions about cereal in the bottle, and she asked if we'd started solids yet. Her reasoning being that she'd rather us be feeding A solids to get her more full for longer periods of time than add cereal to the bottle. (Though she said it was good for helping keep the formula down, which is also one of the reasons I am adding cereal.) I know it's really just an OWT that solids help babies sleep longer, but the pedi's reasoning I guess is that since A's not really consuming the "recommended" amount of formula, that perhaps solids would help get more calories in.
Our problem is that I think her interest in solids is actually decreasing instead of increasing. We tried some bananas a few weeks ago just to see what happened, and she took them okay (made a face, but definitely swallowed). Now, she gets PISSED if we even attempt to give her something on a spoon, and then she won't take a bottle at all, even if I know she's hungry. I've tried giving her solids first, then her bottle feeding, vice versa, and also feeding her 1/2 a bottle, then solid, then the rest of the bottle. If solids come before any portion of the bottle, she refuses the rest of it. If we do the solids after the bottle, she refuses that and gets mad/cries. Should I try solids between feedings? Will that make a difference, do you think, or does it sound like she is just plain not ready?
Also tongue thrust...a couple of weeks ago I was convinced that the reflex was gone, but now I'm not sure. Is it normal for it still to be strong in a 5 1/2 month old? She doesn't immediately push the food out with her tongue, but she does make a face and then spit it out. Also, she gags on it. Scared the ever-loving crap out of me, actually - I thought she was choking. What does this sound like to you? Am I doing something wrong?
I'm just so stressed out about this whole situation. I'm terrified at her next appointment that she's going to be below the growth charts again. I don't see how she could possibly be eating enough to gain weight properly, when she eats about 10-12 oz LESS than the recommended amount for a baby that weighs LESS than what I think she weighs. She doesn't even eat the amounts recommended for a baby that weighs what she weight at her 4 month checkup. The only explanation I have for why she doesn't eat enough is that she's possibly getting more breastmilk than I realize. I essentially nurse her through a significant portion of the night in order to keep her asleep for even 2-3 hour stretches. We're positively exhausted from being up ALL night feeding her. 3 feedings last night, not including my time nursing her. NOT cool.
We want to Ferberize soon, and we won't be able to when we know she's still taking nutrition at night. I'm so frustrated I don't know what to do.
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Re: Solids questions - tongue thrust, interest, timing, etc...
Oy, I don't really have any great suggestions, but wanted to say that I'm so sorry that you are going through this.
One thing that I can think of - does A have a time of day when she is in the best mood? K is happiest in the mornings right after she wakes up and BFs. We have the best luck feeding her solids at that time (cereal, sweet potatoes). If I wait until evening, which tends to be her fussiest time of day, she barely has any patience for it. I know that doesn't help with your problem of her being full before bedtime...
At 5.5 months, Layna was still iffy about solids. She was not eating them consistently at all. I would quit offering for a couple days and try again. But she never ate much baby food at all and went straight to table food at 7 months. So who knows? Babies are weird. But its definitely not unusual for her lack of interest in solids.
This may be bad advice but in your situation I would probably give her formula at night. Given her slowness in gaining weight, I would want to know exactly how much she's getting. And the lack of sleep would be killing me, and I'd want to Feberize asap. But I'm sure the breastfeeding mamas can give a different insight into that part.
4 through 7 months old were the absolute worst for me. She wasn't sleeping, didn't like baby food, and was taking a bottle all freakin night long. I'm sorry you're dealing with it, too
How long after a bottle are you offering the solids? Maybe try waiting a little longer? Have you considered offering her finger foods (like BLW?) maybe it's the spoon or the puree consistency. Have you tried a lot of different foods? I know that bananas really upset DD's stomach when we first started solids.
The gagging can just be a reaction to the new texture. I'm so sorry you're having a rough time with her feeding and sleeping. I hope that someone has good suggestions for you.
I agree with pp about feeding solids during her happiest time of day. Camy gets her one solid meal a day right after her first morning nap. She wakes up (for the day) and gets a bottle with DH (or nurses with me on weekends) then goes down for her nap about an hour later. She sleeps for about 30 mins then we give her the solids meal at that point. I also think its best at this age/stage to offer her the bottles as you normally would and then her solids 30mins-1hr later. The formula needs to be her main source of nutrition, solids are just complimentary at this point. So when she's hungry, go for the bottles first.
About the tongue-thrust reflex, I'm inclined to believe that if she lets you get the spoon into her mouth, she's outgrown the reflex. The first 2 times we tried solids with Camy, she wouldn't even let us get food into her mouth. So we quit and waited a few days and tried again. Just this past Sunday she let us feed her.
Also, have you thought about BLW? Maybe she would do better on a baby-led, non-puree routine? You could offer her modified versions of what you're eating and let her have it. I have the book if you want to borrow it. It was too much for DH to wrap his mind around, so we are taking the more traditional route but I would have LOVED to do BLW with Camy.
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She and Wyatt could be twins on the not eating well during the day/eating all night front. He nurses for all of one minute during the day and then pops on and off constantly until I finally give up. He feeds every three hours at night. With Mason also still waking up once to feed at night and typically rolling onto his belly and having to be rescued a couple more times I literally don't sleep longer than one to two hour stretches. We had one blissful week after we added the seconds solids meal where they both slept 11 hours...and then it was gone.
I really wish I knew how to fix it. I can't Ferber right now because even though he doesn't really bother Mason I can't get him far enough from Rhett who appears to be a light sleeper.
On the subject of solids, I might actually have some useful info. We met with an occupational therapist yesterday. In the "Adaptive Behaviors" area Wyatt scores like a newborn, meaning he has serious issues in the sleeping/eating areas that put him way behind. He still has the tongue thrust reflux. He actually does love his solids, but he really struggles with eating. He licks/sucks off of the spoon instead of taking the spoon and food into his mouth like he should. She said that still having the tongue thrust reflux past the 6 month mark is considered a developmental delay, but with the absence of any indicators of a serious problem it is probably just a normal delay and he should eventually grow out of it. I know A isn't as old as my boys, but since you are nearing that point I thought it might be helpful. They did not feel like having the tongue thrust still was any reason to stop solids, but he does seem to generally like them - just struggles to actually eat them. One trick she told me to "teach" him what he is supposed to be doing with his tongue is to wait until his mouth is open wide and then put the spoon further back in his mouth and push down on his tongue a bit. Supposedly that will train them where their tongue really should be when they eat and how to push food backwards. Mason also gagged really bad and hated solids for about a week or so when we first started. If he was my only I might have stopped and then restarted a bit later, but I was advised by a bunch of MoMs that it would be better to go ahead and sit him down with Wyatt and give him a bite here and there so he wasn't left out. After about a week he stopped gagging and started enjoying it. I think it had a lot to do with him not liking texture and continuing to expose him to the new textures did help him to get used to it. I also made his food really, really runny and slowly backed off on thinning it to try to help him adjust.
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I'm doing solids with the bottle now, but yeah I think I'll try it between feedings. I'll also go for the happier time of day (which if you know my child, you know are few and far between!)
Isn't it too early for BLW? I thought it was 6mo? Though I guess a week or two won't make a big diff...
I'm so sorry you're still dealing with this, K...so frustrating!
As for solids, Will was eating every 2-3 hours 24-hrs a day when we went to solids and once we added them in, he moved to eating every 4-5 hours during the night. BIG difference, so I don't necessarily believe that the solids/sleep correlation is an OWT
We did them about an hour after he'd eaten...so he'd eat for 20-30 minutes, we'd wait about an hour, and then give him the solids. It took a few weeks for him to actually be interested in eating them. I agree with the others...maybe try BLW. Will was DONE with purees at 8 months. He would clamp his mouth shut and turn to the side. But he loved eating the foods we were eating.
As for the night nutrition...I wish I could help. We still nurse through a big portion of the night and he's really just starting to sleep more than nurse when he's in bed with us. It's been a long battle and I'm starting to see a teensy light at the end of the tunnel. I hope you guys can figure out something that works for you soon.
(((hugs)))
We are doing BLWing and I love it. She didn't really eat much for about the first month though, she just played with the food. Now she eats quite a bit. Kate does not sleep any better though. I think she actually wakes up *more* since we have started solids though I think it is teething related.
Good luck!
Photo by Melissa Glynn
Baby Led Weaning. Basically, you skip purees and let the baby feed itself. You are supposed to feed them what you are eating, but we cheat because we don't eat as healthy as we should and because I want Kate to eat more organic than we can afford for all of us to eat. It's been very fun and low stress.