Clicky: Do you think homeschooling should be legal?

Zenya · January 2010

I was just reading about a court case in CA. It's being appealed, I guess.

The sweeping February 29th ruling says that California law requires "persons between the ages of six and eighteen" to be in "public full-time day school," or a "private full-time day school" or "instructed by a tutor who holds a valid state teaching credential for the grade being taught".

WDYT? Should anybody be allowed to homeschool irrespective of their own education?

[Poll]

DandR · January 2010

It has to be monitored. Its scary that anyone could decide they don't want their children in school and keep them home and "homeschool".

I think that it has to stay legal though because I think there are a lot of homeschoolers who actually do a great job of it.

But someone needs to monitor it somehow to verify that it isn't someone only teaching about God and gardening or something.

dnagal · January 2010

There should be a "certification process" in which you may apply for a permit to homeschool, after demonstrating some academic proficiency and an actual planned curriculum. And, the kids should have the same annual proficiency testing as in-school kids, to identify if they are slipping behind their peers.

Zenya · January 2010

I agree, D&R. I started looking into it b/c of an 'unschooler' on MDC whose 16 year old is basically illiterate.

mhwood · January 2010

I agree with this idea of a certification process. I believe that parents should have degrees or teaching certification in order to be able to teach.

I also think that children should be tested at the end of every school year to ensure that they are up to date on everything.

Scooter359 · January 2010

It should be illegal to not give some form of education to your children. I was watching an old episode of Wife Swap, and the parents thought school was stupid, and they learn math from counting the eggs that the chicken lays. That is seriously wrong on levels I cant even imagine and its harming these kids.

Ive also known many homeschooled children who are very far behind compared to others because they do maybe an hour or so, then a break, then another hour and another break while watching tv the whole time, and then the parents help them with tests. Its ridiculous. These are kids that will never get a good job and probably never leave home. Like others have said, there needs to be limits on who can and cant do it, you need to be capable of it. But I know there are people out there that do a really good job. I think it needs to be monitered and testing should be done outside of the home.

CleoKitty · January 2010

I hear/read about quite a few homeschoolers and can't help but cringe at what a sh!tty education the kids are getting. That being said, I still think their parents have the right to educate their children as they see fit even when the parents are dumba$$es. I see it as an issue of parental rights.

Zenya · January 2010

CleoKitty:
I hear/read about quite a few homeschoolers and can't help but cringe at what a sh!tty education the kids are getting. That being said, I still think their parents have the right to educate their children as they see fit even when the parents are dumba$$es. I see it as an issue of parental rights.

Interesting. I Was just thinking how I think it's a child welfare (children's rights) issue.

Brewster · January 2010

I think it needs to be closely monitored and whichever parent is teaching needs to hold some sort of certificate or credentials. I am a certified teacher and I know that I would not be able to provide my children with a proper education beyond probably 7 or 8th grade. Also, I loathe teaching science, so I feel like my kids would lack in that area, regardless of how much training I have.

I do think homeschool can work in certain situations, but no, not just anyone should be able to do it.

YouAreMyILoveYou · January 2010

Zenya:

CleoKitty:
I hear/read about quite a few homeschoolers and can't help but cringe at what a sh!tty education the kids are getting. That being said, I still think their parents have the right to educate their children as they see fit even when the parents are dumba$$es. I see it as an issue of parental rights.

Interesting. I Was just thinking how I think it's a child welfare (children's rights) issue.

I agree with Zenya. It's a disservice to the children & community. If these kids can't get a GED and one day get a job, it is society as a whole that suffers, not just the parents. It also isn't fair for a kid who genuinely wants to learn but isn't given the chance.

I think up until 16 y/o (the age when kids can drop out of school here) a child should be on a monitored education program and if a parent is teaching the child then they should have to be certified in some way.

Zenya · January 2010

(cleo - comment was not meant in a snarky way. it's just a different perspective!)

K-I-S-S-I-N-G · January 2010

CleoKitty:
I still think their parents have the right to educate their children as they see fit even when the parents are dumba$$es. I see it as an issue of parental rights.

I totally disagree- I don't see it as a parent's right at all, I think it is a child's right to receive a proper, monitored and regulated education.

CleoKitty · January 2010

Zenya:
(cleo - comment was not meant in a snarky way. it's just a different perspective!)

Nah, I didn't "read" it as snarky at all.

penguingrrl · January 2010

I agree with zenya that it's a child welfare issue. I dated a guy in high school who was a case of home schooling gone horribly wrong. His mother did not want him in a secular school, but also did not want him in Catholic school, so since there were no non-Catholic religious schools she chose to home school. Her version of "home schooling," though, was that she slept until noon and left a pile of books and assignments on the kitchen table, but never checked whether he did them at all. I'm not joking that for the four years he was "home schooled" he did not learn a single thing. When the state tested him at the end of 8th grade he was at a 4th grade level for everything, so they rescinded permission to homeschool. Knowing him turned me off the homeschooling for a long time since he was the only person I had ever met who had been. Now I've met many smart, literate, hard-working people who were homeschooled and have realized that it can be excellent, but can also be a disaster. I think it needs to be monitored.

gracendantho26 · January 2010

I think it would be nice if people would put their kids in their local public school and get really involved. Work in the classroom, fundraise for the school, help out with tutoring and make public education more community based. Be involved and get the best of both worlds.

I worry about the people who abuse the home schooling system and because childrens rights are of a higher proprity to me I think at the very least they should require certification (ongoing) and close observation.

CleoKitty · January 2010

K-I-S-S-I-N-G:
CleoKitty:
I still think their parents have the right to educate their children as they see fit even when the parents are dumba$$es. I see it as an issue of parental rights.

I totally disagree- I don't see it as a parent's right at all, I think it is a child's right to receive a proper, monitored and regulated education.

I don't know. Really, I think it's all a balancing act in between parental rights vs. the child's rights. Ultimately though, as parents we are considered legally responsible for a child until they reach the age of 18 and as such kids really can't make their own legal decisions while they're still minors. It's such a fine line and I don't know exactly where the child's rights takes precedence over the parental rights and vice versa.

I would also argue that there are many children in public schools who are not receiving a proper, monitored and regulated education- it's not an issue unique to homeschoolers. Ever read any Jonathan Kozol?

femmegem · January 2010

I also agree with Zenya and many others. I definitely think homeschooling should be legal, but should be monitored. When I taught kindergarten one of the moms pulled her K daughter and her 2nd grade son, who definitely showed signs of dyslexia, to homeschool them. The mom was didn't have much education herself just to be homeschooling, much less to have the ability to deal with a learning disability. I really wonder how those kids are doing now.

heyitsme · January 2010

I agree with the others who mention close monitoring is key, and I like the idea of a certification process. By permitting any and all to homeschool I think you set up the potential to allow thousands of people to fall through the cracks. I think when children are younger, anyone CAN teach, but beyond a certain level, I think that becomes more blurry. I'm a whiz at spelling and algebra, but don't think I could teach biology... kwim?

I think the monitoring should involved knowing the parents' plan of education, being allowed to "drop in" (like a social worker does) and observe the learning environment from time to time... I DON'T think the monitoring needs to be along the lines of making sure the children perform to certain testing standards. Sometimes the reason people homeschool is simply to avoid such testing.

I like the idea of a certificate, too... maybe something in conjunction with the monitoring OR a certain level of certificate = less monitoring. My cousin and her husband are both educators--he's a published author and college professor and she's a middle school teacher, and they are unschooling their children. As in, no formal schooling at all--no workbooks, no busy work, etc. They just indulge their children in whatever interests them... and for them, thus far, it has worked. Their kids are 12 and 13 and they are SO smart. And they're also very sociable with adults and their peers (an argument I hear a lot about homeschooling/unschooling). They've won several awards for their achievements, and are very future-oriented. But I know that my cousins are an exception to the rule for the most part.

femmegem · January 2010

CleoKitty:

I would also argue that there are many children in public schools who are not receiving a proper, monitored and regulated education- it's not an issue unique to homeschoolers. Ever read any Jonathan Kozol?

Oh, ditto this, absolutely. And the government doesn't even know how to resolve issues with schools, so even though I think there should be some monitoring of homeschooling I'm not sure it would ever happen.

goodheartedmommy · January 2010

I think it is absolutely my right to homeschool my children. The day I can no longer decide what I feel is best for my children is the day I leave this country. I can argue that spanking will also lead to children who may not be productive to society--you can't argue all will have issues, just as you cannot argue that all homeschooled children will have issues. But spanking is legal, and most are against making it illegal. I find it highly annoying that people think I don't have the right to make the choice I feel is right for my children and family. You always hear "whatever works" but that, of course, does not apply to everything, especially something so unconventional.

gracendantho26 · January 2010

I would also argue that there are many children in public schools who are not receiving a proper, monitored and regulated education- it's not an issue unique to homeschoolers. Ever read any Jonathan Kozol?

If you are involved in your childs education and active at the school you would know warning signs of a failing process. Instead of being afraid to send your child you could be a catalyst for change at the school.

KittyKatBrat · January 2010

I think homeschooling is a right of parents. But I think it needs to be monitored. I think the parent needs to test on the basics of that years teachings and the child needs to test at the end of the year on the basic. I'm talking math, reading, etc. If you want to teach your kid basket weaving in addition to the basic skills needed to live and works thats fine.

But I don't understand how some parents get up in arms about "I just fed my baby sugar!!" or "Only organic will touch their lips!" when its food.

Talking about being able to make sure your child is up to date with other children as far as knowledge is important. What if you couldn't continue homeschooling? What if they didn't want to continue and wanted to mainstream?

I don't have the ability to be a lawyer so I'm not going to say I have the ability to teach everything my kids need to know in life.

CleoKitty · January 2010

gracendantho26:
I would also argue that there are many children in public schools who are not receiving a proper, monitored and regulated education- it's not an issue unique to homeschoolers. Ever read any Jonathan Kozol?

If you are involved in your childs education and active at the school you would know warning signs of a failing process. Instead of being afraid to send your child you could be a catalyst for change at the school.

I'm not sure if you mean the generic "you" or the personal "you," but if that directed at me rest assured that I'm not afraid of sending my kids to public school- I'm quite certain that they will attend public school at some point in their lives; I'm just not sure yet if that will be in elementary school or not until they're older. We're just taking it year by year and doing what works best for us.

Ds currently attends a private school, but if and/or when for whatever reason that no longer becomes our best option then we'll give equal consideration to both homeschooling and public school. I really think that they all (public, private, home) have their pros and cons. I'm also quite aware that what might be the best fit for one child in a family may not be the best option for yet another child in the same family. As my kids get older I'm willing to entertain the idea of having them at different schools or receiving different types of schooling if I have reason to believe that it would be in their best interest.

Zenya · January 2010

GHM - are you against monitoring?

gracendantho26 · January 2010

It was the generic "you." But I really support the idea of education becoming more community based. Meaning you don't just focus on what is best for your own child but what is best for the community of children you live around. That's why I like the idea of putting our efforts toward improving the public schools and as parents (we who are not teachers or administration) the best way we can do that is to get involved.

That's my utopia vision of public schools..parents, teachers and administration working together for the greater good. Big Smile

KittyKatBrat · January 2010

gracendantho26:

It was the generic "you." But I really support the idea of education becoming more community based. Meaning you don't just focus on what is best for your own child but what is best for the community of children you live around. That's why I like the idea of putting our efforts toward improving the public schools and as parents (we who are not teachers or administration) the best way we can do that is to get involved.

That's my utopia vision of public schools..parents, teachers and administration working together for the greater good.

That's a great idea, but do you ever see it happening? I know in our district theres more and more cutbacks with education. And sadly more and more emphasis on sports, especially male sports.

gracendantho26 · January 2010

We make a pretty darn good effort at our school so I definitely see it happening..everyday. We have several programs that are parent volunteer based and would not be possible otherwise. We step up stay at home and working parents alike..and luckily we have many involved dads too.

goodheartedmommy · January 2010

No, I'm not against monitoring, at least for me. My homeschool co-op offers the same testing other schools do (which I think are kinda screwy), but we will do them.

hopefulmom · January 2010

I said "other" but if you mean by monitoring that the kids are tested then I would vote for that. I don't beleive the parents have to be monitored. I also think that once the kids reach a certain age...high school...the parents need a degree in the classes they are teaching. You don't need an elementary teachers certificate to teach your own child (unless you are an idiot).

angelfishmama · January 2010

After reading all this about homeschooling, I must confess that I was homeschooled and grew up to become a well educated college graduate with a high paying job. Two of my closest homeschooled friends are in law school and med shcool and I have not seen 'neglectful' or horrid teaching.

In my experience, our parents wanted not just book learning but well rounded individuals. I went to jr college at 16 and was appalled at how ill-prepared my public schooled classmates were when it came to self discipline and their ability to compose a paper or understand lists of instructions in science lab etc.

Homeschooling gets a bad rap from people who sit around and imagine that it must be a terrible thing not to be properly socialized and to miss out on all the bullying and crap in the publinc school. Well, we played sports, had choirs, went on field trips, did long term science projects, participated in bands and chess clubs and volunteered our time in food pantries, hospitals and had far more worldly experience than most public schoolers,

I realize it is not for everyone and that there are people who are not qualitfied and should not attempt it. Butm there are also people who should not attempt parenthood but we arent talking about taking away their right to give birth.

Sorry - vent over - I will go back into my quiet corner

lucyfox · January 2010

angelfishmama:
I realize it is not for everyone and that there are people who are not qualified and should not attempt it. But there are also people who should not attempt parenthood but we arent talking about taking away their right to give birth.

Yes

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