CLICKY POLL: Amnio results and termination

mrsmatto · November 2009

Barbara Walters will interview Sarah Palin tomorrow night and she will be asking about how they reacted to finding out their son would have Down's Syndrome. Made me wonder.

No judgment of course...[Poll]

punkfiction_v.3 · November 2009

never.

618mom22boys · November 2009

With DS1 I was told there could be a few different things wrong with him such as downs, cystic fibrosis, his intestines are connected or he had CMV. They gave me the option of an amnio and I denied it. The only reason I would have one would be to prepare me for what was up ahead. But like I said I declined mine and had my mindset that no matter what was wrong with my son I would love him to death. I would never terminate!! He ended up being born with CMV.

KGsky · November 2009

Even though I responded, I feel like I would only really and truly know what I would do if faced with that situation IRL.? Such a difficult situation.? FWIW, I don't necessarily think Down's Syndrome is as severe as some of the other disabilities, but that could just be my bias from watching too much "Life Goes On."

Temp174496125006552 · November 2009

Since I was 35 when I delivered Ben, it was recommended that DH and I meet with a genetic counselor, which we did. We talked a lot about the "what if's" and I told him that if the baby would be born with little to no quality of life, or would be in pain, I would terminate. It would be a tough decision and I am sure I would agonize over it and be a mess during/after, but I refuse to bring a child into this world to suffer. To me, that seems selfish.

ETA: I don't consider Downs no quality of life. If I found out that the baby had Downs, I would continue the pregnancy as normal. I'm talking about genetic defects and severe medical complications here.

mrsmatto · November 2009

I saw a clip of the Palin interview and I think she said something to the effect that she never considered termination but she did understand the inclination to do so. Almost like a compassionate nod to those who have made such a decision. Very "PC" of her.

meggiekins · November 2009

Honestly, it would depend on the circumstances. I think, without ever having been in this situation, that my preference would be to deliver the baby and have a chance to see and hold it. I think an actual termination would be so difficult, and I think even if there was no chance of survival, I would feel like I ended my child's life. (Of course I would never think this of anyone else- you do what you have to do.)

However, I have very high risk pregnancies, so if it came down to my life vs. a fetus with no chance of survival or meaningful quality of life, for my husband and living children I would have to choose my life and terminate. But it would still eat me up inside.

I would not terminate for something like Down's though. I am speaking more of anencephaly, potter's sequence, or something along those lines.

beachbride5 · November 2009

seans_grl:
Since I was 35 when I delivered Ben, it was recommended that DH and I meet with a genetic counselor, which we did. We talked a lot about the "what if's" and I told him that if the baby would be born with little to no quality of life, or would be in pain, I would terminate. It would be a tough decision and I am sure I would agonize over it and be a mess during/after, but I refuse to bring a child into this world to suffer. To me, that seems selfish.
ETA: I don't consider Downs no quality of life. If I found out that the baby had Downs, I would continue the pregnancy as normal. I'm talking about genetic defects and severe medical complications here.

this. downs is not something i would ever think of terminating for. but if my baby was going to "live" in pain for any amount of time i don't think i could do it. i would feel very selfish and guilty watching a baby/child suffer.

lizzie53084 · November 2009

punkfiction_v.3:
never.

In a million years.

jenifairies · November 2009

I don't think so. But I've never been in the position either, and for something so, I don't know, huge, I can't say what I'd do for certain. I'm about 99% sure it would be a no though. I wouldn't want to have the power of ending my child's life ever.

ETA - no way over something that's liveable. My hesitation to say 100% is what if there's something they won't survive? And potentially stupid question, but can fetuses feel pain? Like can a defect cause pain? Please forgive me the stupid question, I really don't know.

susanmosley · November 2009

I don't know.

SBMBride406 · November 2009

beachbride5:
seans_grl:

Since I was 35 when I delivered Ben, it was recommended that DH and I meet with a genetic counselor, which we did. We talked a lot about the "what if's" and I told him that if the baby would be born with little to no quality of life, or would be in pain, I would terminate. It would be a tough decision and I am sure I would agonize over it and be a mess during/after, but I refuse to bring a child into this world to suffer. To me, that seems selfish.

ETA: I don't consider Downs no quality of life. If I found out that the baby had Downs, I would continue the pregnancy as normal. I'm talking about genetic defects and severe medical complications here.

this. downs is not something i would ever think of terminating for. but if my baby was going to "live" in pain for any amount of time i don't think i could do it. i would feel very selfish and guilty watching a baby/child suffer.

I agree with this completely. Honestly, before I became a mom, I may have thought about terminating b/c of a severe developmental disability. Now that I am a mom, I know I could love a baby unconditionally under any circumstances. I had no comprehension of that before my DS was born. But I don't think I would/could knowingly give birth to a baby that was destined to live in constant suffering.

femmeftle9 · November 2009

This is something I really can not answer until I'm in that position. And hopefully I will never be in that position.

But I can say that terminating will be extremely hard, especially after giving birth to DD.

meggiekins · November 2009

jenifairies:
And potentially stupid question, but can fetuses feel pain? Like can a defect cause pain? Please forgive me the stupid question, I really don't know.

Past a certain point, yes, they can. It's usually thought to be sometime early in 3rd tri when the nervous system is developed enough for them to feel pain.

ETA: To be fair, I should also mention this hotly debated, since it plays heavily into the abortion debate. Some claim fetuses feel pain as early as 8 weeks.

TKx2 · November 2009

I can speculate all I want, but there's no way I could say for certain what I'd do in that situation IRL. However, without actually facing that decision, my answer is that I would only consider termination if there was a 100% chance that my child wouldn't be born alive or have zero quality of life (and I don't conisder Down's to be this).

My DD has Turner Syndrome. She was 9 months old when she was diagnosed. 98% of Turner pregnancies end is miscarriage, and many of the 2% that survive have severe health and developmental impacts. DD is very healthy, and the only symptom we've seen so far is small stature. I couldn't imagine my life without her and if I found out my next child also has it, I wouldn't even consider termination.

Ciarrai · November 2009

DH and I have always turned down all the screening and tests because we were sure there was nothing that could make us terminate. Then I had clients/friends who went through carrying a baby to term with trisomy 13. (Yes, they knew. It showed up on her 20 week u/s and subsequent amnio.) He made it five days. I did a maternity session for them and two sessions with the baby including one after they took him home. It was 5 days more than they thought they'd have. He passed away in his father's arms on the morning of his 5th-day birthday at home...which is the most they ever dreamed they could hope for.

If this were our first DC, I think we might have made the same decisions this family did. I want to say that we would have considered carrying to term, praying for a miracle and treasuring every second with him/her. I don't know that. I don't know I could have had the strength that they had or the faith they had. But I have two little girls to think about now. And I know there is no way we could knowingly put them through that. As much as we would try to shield them, they would understand something, pick up on something, and I couldn't put them through that. I couldn't put my family - my kids, my husband, everyone - through that.

BUT a trisomy 13/18 baby is different than a Downs baby. A trisomy 13/18 baby isn't going to survive. A baby with a disability - downs or anything else - is going to survive. They're going to live, to grow, to love and play and cry and mature. I could never give that up.

ronnie day · November 2009

My DH and I were dead set that if we got pregnant and the baby turned out to have something wrong we would terminate.

When we actually got pregnant, we determined that it would NEVER be something we could do.

I voted for "only if the yes if there was no chance for survival" but honestly, I don't know.

I can't say for sure anymore.

jamie5315 · November 2009

Never. I would also never get the amnio. It wouldn't change anything and I don't want to worry about it.

amajane · November 2009

I replied yes. And if an ultrasound showed anything wrong with the fetus no matter how minor- I would terminate.

In my experience, having a child with health problems and special needs has been one of the worst things to ever happen to me. I hate myself and hate my life everytime I see my DD go through one after another painful medical procedure. I vow to never put another child through that torture.

Oh, and what's up with the comments "I would love my DC no matter what". Do you think I love my child any less because she has special needs? Maybe it makes you feel all righteous to say that but it feels like I'm being kicked in the stomach every time I read that. Yeah, I love my DD. So what?

anna7602 · November 2009

I am a total wuss and don't want to put myself in a position where I would have to make this decision. Therefore, I went against my doctor's recommendation and did not get the amnio when I was pregnant with DD. I am not sure if I will be able to turn down the amnio again next time (advanced maternal age).

meggiekins · November 2009

anna7602:
I am a total wuss and don't want to put myself in a position where I would have to make this decision. Therefore, I went against my doctor's recommendation and did not get the amnio when I was pregnant with DD. I am not sure if I will be able to turn down the amnio again next time (advanced maternal age).

Just FTR, you always have the right to refuse the amnio, no matter how old you are. Wink

preg_amy · November 2009

Ciarrai:
DH and I have always turned down all the screening and tests because we were sure there was nothing that could make us terminate. Then I had clients/friends who went through carrying a baby to term with trisomy 13. (Yes, they knew. It showed up on her 20 week u/s and subsequent amnio.) He made it five days. I did a maternity session for them and two sessions with the baby including one after they took him home. It was 5 days more than they thought they'd have. He passed away in his father's arms on the morning of his 5th-day birthday at home...which is the most they ever dreamed they could hope for.
If this were our first DC, I think we might have made the same decisions this family did. I want to say that we would have considered carrying to term, praying for a miracle and treasuring every second with him/her. I don't know that. I don't know I could have had the strength that they had or the faith they had. But I have two little girls to think about now. And I know there is no way we could knowingly put them through that. As much as we would try to shield them, they would understand something, pick up on something, and I couldn't put them through that. I couldn't put my family - my kids, my husband, everyone - through that.
BUT a trisomy 13/18 baby is different than a Downs baby. A trisomy 13/18 baby isn't going to survive. A baby with a disability - downs or anything else - is going to survive. They're going to live, to grow, to love and play and cry and mature. I could never give that up.

See, I really don't think I'm strong enough to do that. I think the people in your example are way better people than I am and it would kill me to get my child for 5 days and then lose him. I think I would crumble.

And you put it exactly as I would have when it comes to having kids already. I don't think I could put my child through losing a sibling.

GeoffreytheGiraffe · November 2009

I would terminate a baby with certain defects without hesiatation. I also think a first pregnancy vs. a subsequent pregnancy would have different answers.

lite-bright · November 2009

jenifairies:
ETA - no way over something that's liveable. My hesitation to say 100% is what if there's something they won't survive? And potentially stupid question, but can fetuses feel pain? Like can a defect cause pain? Please forgive me the stupid question, I really don't know.

I know I've seen at least one post on the tri boards where a bumpie had amniotic band syndrome, where something goes wrong with the amniotic sac. Parts of it constrict around the baby and can either sever or mangle the baby's limbs/body in the womb, or even kill the baby or cause miscarriage depending on how they're placed.

I think she said she was going to terminate. I personally don't know if I could continue a pregnancy knowing that my body was slowly crippling or killing an otherwise healthy baby, constantly wondering how much pain my child was in while that was happening. On the other hand, I remember seeing a reply from someone who was an amniotic band survivor; I think she said she was born without legs.

I hope to God I never have to make that kind of decision.

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