Health insurance benefits @ DH's company-- WEIGH IN~ Legal?

Stacyc625 · November 2009

Ok so DH comes home today and tells me about the open enrollment mtg they had. OMG-

right now we pay about 460.00/month for family coverage- PPO. They are upping the cost by 60.00 a month. GRR. however...

they are also upping the deductable per person to 150.00. ok. grr again.

However- GET THIS-

Company is putting an additional 'fee' PER PERSON & PER PAYPERIOD of 75.00 if who ever covered- SMOKES. (Say DH & I both smoke <neither do> that would be an additional 300.00 PER MONTH) to be covered.

If you don't pay the 'fee' and are caught smoking on grounds- your medical insurance will be cancelled IMMEDIATELY for the entire family.

Soooo- what are your thoughts. Weigh in. Is this (in your opinion) legal?

Definitely sounds like a slippery slope to me.

libby73 · November 2009

Is it the company setting the smoking fine or the insurance company?

yoko589 · November 2009

If you apply for individual policies with a health insurance company, they ask if you are a tobacco user. It's legal about charging more because your rate is higher in that case. I don't know about the whole canceling your coverage if you are caught on the grounds. Sounds a bit strange to me.

the_mulva · November 2009

I love that you're asking a bunch of chicks on the nest if something is legal. that's the best laugh I have had all day.

busygal · November 2009

I am pretty sure the smoking premium is OK'd and not illegal (the legality has been well tested in the life insurance context), but the cancellation of the policy if you're caught smoking seems kind of outrageous. However, it would seem that the company currently has discretion over whether or not to provide health coverage so they can decide to stop if you violate the terms as you agreed to them (either pay up or quit smoking). For better or worse there is no law that says companies have to provide health benefits.

It would be hard to be sympathetic to someone who chose to keep smoking and jeopardize their family's medical insurance...

However, I bet if you read the fine print of the rules someone who violates this can get coverage back by paying COBRA until the next enrollment period...

When I opened this post I thought it was going to be that they were making employees get weighed. Now THAT would be an interesting question!!

Stacyc625 · November 2009

To the poster commenting about the weight- that is EXACTLY where i was 'going' with this post. ~ slippery slope.

And to the poster who assumed I was actually asking nesties for the legality of the benefits- get lost. I was simply opening this up for discussion. get a life.

GeoffreytheGiraffe · November 2009

Our insurance does this..thanks goodness we don't smoke. I think it's only legal in certain states.

Our insurance is based on the state of IL laws even though I don't live there, LOL

Sam78 · November 2009

Absolutely legal and smart too if you ask me: gives the employee an incentive to quit, keeps the employer's rates down. There are some companies (I want to say a software company in Cary/Raleigh) that have also instituted weight/overall health requirements on the employees (was on 60 minutes or a similar show a year or so ago), which I found quite interesting. Some people just need a kick in the pants which a fine will give them to get healthy; I don't know what happens if weight is related to some sort of medical condition which would seem to me to be a more problematic scenario - I don't have any sympathy for people who are overweight just because they eat crap all day.

Sunny1inTucson · November 2009

given there are companies who will no longer HIRE smokers (Cleveland Clinic), I believe it and I'm sure it's legal.

victoria1977 · November 2009

Hmm, sounds a little weird, but I can see why they are doing it. Smoking kills. Do you or DH smoke? If not, it shouldn't be an issue.

bnljane1988 · November 2009

the_mulva:
I love that you're asking a bunch of chicks on the nest if something is legal. that's the best laugh I have had all day.

she included "in your opinion".

And, as an ex-smoker, I do agree that people who lie on their insurance forms should be penalized if caught. For the 13 years I smoked, I never lied about it. I "chose" to increase my health risks by smoking - why should that affect other people's premiums?

jlynne · November 2009

My dad's health insurance company requires a full physical every so often and for them to walk so many steps per week. They can deny coverage if you don't meet your step requirements or fail your physical.

Based on his BMI only, he failed the physical. All other numbers came back perfect. He has also not been to the doctor for an illness or other issue in 2 years. So, they raised his rates a lot. His individual rates are higher than our family rates.

azzyberry · November 2009

I don't know whether it's legal or not, but IMO I think smokers should have to pay higher premiums and if they lie on their forms to avoid the higher premiums, their insurance should be cancelled. Smoking is a choice and if you choose to smoke, you are choosing to risk getting a whole list of diseases and life threatening conditions. Why should I have to pay higher premiums for people who choose to smoke and risk their health?

LoriFalce · November 2009

busygal:

However, I bet if you read the fine print of the rules someone who violates this can get coverage back by paying COBRA until the next enrollment period...

When I opened this post I thought it was going to be that they were making employees get weighed. Now THAT would be an interesting question!!

I would bet anything they can't get it reinstated through COBRA.

What you're looking at is the company getting a better deal for employees who don't smoke. If you say you don't smoke and do, you're lying to the insurance company. It's basically like saying "No, I've never had cancer!" when you had a double mastectomy because of it.

Worcbride · November 2009

a lot of companies are doing this nowadays. they can probably cancel the coverage under the assumption that you lied on the application.

C.squared · November 2009

I'm an insurance broker (not for health insurance, though) and think it's probably within the rights of the insurance company. Most policies have a clause that states the policy is void if there is a material misrepresentation or fraud on the application. I've only seen it come in to play once and the insurance company had to pay the claim anyway. That said, my company also imposes the same fine and policy regarding cancellation. Thank goodness DH and I don't smoke (nor do we use my benefits, but still...)

BecauseICan · November 2009

Lots of companies here in MI do that--and several have instituted 'no smoking' policies for employees--both on campus and at home. If you're caught smoking, you don't only lose you're insurance, you lose your JOB. And it's been upheld in court, so I'd assume this is plenty legal as well.

*Bre* · November 2009

but what if I had a stressful day as a nonsmoker and decided to step out and have ONE with a friend. IMO this is nearing some rights infringement. nobody should smoke, but come on, its legal and we all have that choice. Yes, you should pay more, but I wouldnt' want my company dictating what i can and cannot do if it does not affect my immediate job performance.

Worcbride · November 2009

*Bre*:
but what if I had a stressful day as a nonsmoker and decided to step out and have ONE with a friend. IMO this is nearing some rights infringement. nobody should smoke, but come on, its legal and we all have that choice. Yes, you should pay more, but I wouldnt' want my company dictating what i can and cannot do if it does not affect my immediate job performance.

I look at it this way...it's all a choice...you choose to work for this company and either you choose to abide by their rules or you lose your job. You also, in the situation you outlined, choose to smoke.

Stacyc625 · November 2009

*Bre*:
but what if I had a stressful day as a nonsmoker and decided to step out and have ONE with a friend. IMO this is nearing some rights infringement. nobody should smoke, but come on, its legal and we all have that choice. Yes, you should pay more, but I wouldnt' want my company dictating what i can and cannot do if it does not affect my immediate job performance.

Good points Bre- I was hoping something would bring that up. Not that I agree or disagree- but the rights infringement is a valid point. as you said- its (smoking) legal.

Heather R · November 2009

Legal and fair. Smokers are generally higher risk for many conditions-- they are more a liability for the ins. company.

::shrug::

bnljane1988 · November 2009

Worcbride:

*Bre*:
but what if I had a stressful day as a nonsmoker and decided to step out and have ONE with a friend. IMO this is nearing some rights infringement. nobody should smoke, but come on, its legal and we all have that choice. Yes, you should pay more, but I wouldnt' want my company dictating what i can and cannot do if it does not affect my immediate job performance.

I look at it this way...it's all a choice...you choose to work for this company and either you choose to abide by their rules or you lose your job. You also, in the situation you outlined, choose to smoke.

This.

bnljane1988 · November 2009

*Bre*:
but what if I had a stressful day as a nonsmoker and decided to step out and have ONE with a friend. IMO this is nearing some rights infringement. nobody should smoke, but come on, its legal and we all have that choice. Yes, you should pay more, but I wouldnt' want my company dictating what i can and cannot do if it does not affect my immediate job performance.

Why should they get an "allowance" because they had a "stressful day"?

I have stressful days often.....it doesn't mean I grab cigarette every time.

mrsdiamonds · November 2009

Sam78:
Absolutely legal and smart too if you ask me: gives the employee an incentive to quit, keeps the employer's rates down. There are some companies (I want to say a software company in Cary/Raleigh) that have also instituted weight/overall health requirements on the employees (was on 60 minutes or a similar show a year or so ago), which I found quite interesting. Some people just need a kick in the pants which a fine will give them to get healthy; I don't know what happens if weight is related to some sort of medical condition which would seem to me to be a more problematic scenario - I don't have any sympathy for people who are overweight just because they eat crap all day.

I'm not a big fan of the weight requirements. DH is 6'7 and he got denied an increase in life insurance because of his weight. He weighs 270 and is not fat. He played college football and still has a lot of muscle from back then. They said for his height he needed to be 220. There is too much to take into account to just have a blanket weight requirement.

NerdBride_D&D · November 2009

Definitely legal. I worked as an operator during open enrollment for a help center last year. If you lie about something to get a lower premium, you should have your insurance canceled if your company and/or insurance company finds out you lied.

A lot of the companies I was doing the call center work for had Quit Now type plans that would help people quit. So they would sign up for the plan, complete the classes and get the lower premiums. In a lot of cases, they also got like $50 or so on their paycheck after completing the plan. Is your husband's company offering anything like that? I thought it was kind of cool to offer resources to employees who smoked and help them qualify for the lower rates.

And it is a choice and your right to smoke. But some choices have consequences. If you become a smoker, I think you have to report it and have your rates upped then because you made a choice that is changing your premium rates. You can make the choice, no one is prohibiting that, they are saying that there is a premium adjustment for people engaging in a risky behavior.

*Bre* · November 2009

bnljane1988:
*Bre*:
but what if I had a stressful day as a nonsmoker and decided to step out and have ONE with a friend. IMO this is nearing some rights infringement. nobody should smoke, but come on, its legal and we all have that choice. Yes, you should pay more, but I wouldnt' want my company dictating what i can and cannot do if it does not affect my immediate job performance.

Why should they get an "allowance" because they had a "stressful day"?

I have stressful days often.....it doesn't mean I grab cigarette every time.

I'm not saying they should get an allowance, I'd just rather the corporation stay out of it, because there is such a thing as having a social smoke with a friend once in a very great while; if someone is a habitual smoker, they should mark it truthfully on their insurance because the health risks are increased and they should pay more--this is logical. I don't think that someone who has less than one cigarette a month should have to pay more for insurance. ::shrug:: I guess its a good deterrent. I just am not a fan of the companies not hiring smokers, because I know how hard it is to quit (2 years ago) and I would hate to be considered less worthy because of a choice I make about myself. Most smokers want to quit, its just going through that process is difficult.

I think there would be differing opinions on this if it were alcohol. Would you want your employer checking up on you if you went out for a drink with your friends? Or had a glass of wine at home? You take health risks when drinking as well.

Stacyc625 · November 2009

*Bre*:
bnljane1988:

*Bre*:
but what if I had a stressful day as a nonsmoker and decided to step out and have ONE with a friend. IMO this is nearing some rights infringement. nobody should smoke, but come on, its legal and we all have that choice. Yes, you should pay more, but I wouldnt' want my company dictating what i can and cannot do if it does not affect my immediate job performance.

Why should they get an "allowance" because they had a "stressful day"?

I have stressful days often.....it doesn't mean I grab cigarette every time.

I think there would be differing opinions on this if it were alcohol. Would you want your employer checking up on you if you went out for a drink with your friends? Or had a glass of wine at home? You take health risks when drinking as well.

another very good point! :-) Things can get muddy pretty fast.

Momma.Brown · November 2009

i dont know if its legal but i love it and think its very fair. maybe not in the eyes of the smoker. but its not fair that i have to pay increased premiums because of your unhealthy habit. however i do think that they should offer coverage for smoking cessation therapy.

i also wouldn't mind increased premiums for those that are considered obese or morbidly obese. but only as long as insurance will cover weight loss methods whether it be surgery or WW. and i am fat. i would be considered obese by the standard BMI charts. but as long as i am paying for my co-worker's nasty smoking habit, they can pay for my oreo habit.

CEO1197 · November 2009

I'm late to this debate and haven't read the responses, but, I will say, we have different insurance rates (health & life) at work for smokers.

Smokers cost more to insure, why shouldn't they pay more?

*Bre* · November 2009

Just to be clear, I'm not against higher premiums for smokers, but I am against my place of work getting up in my business.

Stacyc625 · November 2009

Momma.Brown:

i do think that they should offer coverage for smoking cessation therapy.

totally agree.

*Bre* · November 2009

Stacyc625:
Momma.Brown:

i do think that they should offer coverage for smoking cessation therapy.

totally agree.

I agree with this as well. Quitting smoking stuff is expensive! The state of wyoming gives you stuff at reduced or no cost.

Momma.Brown · November 2009

Delaware actually has a free program. they give you patches and everything. there was a huge push for the program when they banned smoking in bars and restaurants here. i wonder how many people actually used it.

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Health insurance benefits @ DH's company-- WEIGH IN~ Legal?

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