Spanking Detrimental to Children

webMistress0609 · September 2009

Thought this article was interesting:

https://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/16/spanking.children.parenting/index.html?iref=hpmostpop

moroccojade · September 2009

There is just so much wrong with the world. Spanking a 1 year old because she's fussy? Absurd. And cruel. No wonder they turn into difficult 2 year olds.

dmogmo · September 2009

I saw this yesterday. It makes me sad that someone would spank a 1 year, but that's just my opinion.

EcoBaby · September 2009

I like the counter argument to the study:

"Some remain unconvinced that parents should never spank their children. Robert Larzelere, associate professor of human development and family science at Oklahoma State University, conducted a meta-analysis of 26 studies on the subject, and found that, overall, spanking seemed more effective than 10 of 13 alternative disciplinary methods for getting a child to behave or do as asked."

So, its more effective, so we should definitely do it. Confused

I don't think being more effective is the best argument in this situation. Who cares if its effective at that moment if it screws the kid up down the road.

moroccojade · September 2009

EcoBaby:
I like the counter argument to the study:

"Some remain unconvinced that parents should never spank their children. Robert Larzelere, associate professor of human development and family science at Oklahoma State University, conducted a meta-analysis of 26 studies on the subject, and found that, overall, spanking seemed more effective than 10 of 13 alternative disciplinary methods for getting a child to behave or do as asked."

So, its more effective, so we should definitely do it.

I don't think being more effective is the best argument in this situation. Who cares if its effective at that moment if it screws the kid up down the road.

Yes. Effective for? Getting a child to behave/do what they're asked. I like good behaviour. I like when DD cooperates. But smacking her into submission to get her there? No thanks. There are other ways - some may take a little more time/patience. But that's ok with me. At least she won't be complying out of fear/terror. And according to that researcher guy - there are 3 more "effective" ways than spanking. I'd like to know what they are.

susiederkins · September 2009

EcoBaby:

I like the counter argument to the study:

"Some remain unconvinced that parents should never spank their children. Robert Larzelere, associate professor of human development and family science at Oklahoma State University, conducted a meta-analysis of 26 studies on the subject, and found that, overall, spanking seemed more effective than 10 of 13 alternative disciplinary methods for getting a child to behave or do as asked."

So, its more effective, so we should definitely do it.

I don't think being more effective is the best argument in this situation. Who cares if its effective at that moment if it screws the kid up down the road.

If I'm remembering my meta-analyses correctly, the finding is that it is an effective short-term shaper of behavior. So, it's basically a band-aid. It's a quick fix, but doesn't really fix the root of the problem.

SMCbride2b · September 2009

For the record, I'd like to say that I was spanked as a child and seem to have turned out just fine. My parents weren't abusive in any way, I never felt threatened and still have a great relationship with both of them. DH and I are currently discussing discipline tactics and have agreed that while corporal punishment isn't the best alternative (and should be the very last resort), it isn't an "evil" when it comes to disciplining your kids.

JCM083009 · September 2009

What I will just never understand about spanking/hitting is how it's at all logical. Regardless of how you feel about it being mean or not, how the hell do you teach a child "we don't hit" (for example, or whatever bad behavior you don't want) by hitting them??? How confusing is that for a kid? It's not okay for you to do these mean things to others, but it's cool if mommy and daddy spank you. Hmm

fallbridequeen · September 2009

SMCbride2b:
For the record, I'd like to say that I was spanked as a child and seem to have turned out just fine. My parents weren't abusive in any way, I never felt threatened and still have a great relationship with both of them. DH and I are currently discussing discipline tactics and have agreed that while corporal punishment isn't the best alternative (and should be the very last resort), it isn't an "evil" when it comes to disciplining your kids.

You may have turned out "just fine", but there are SO many other MORE effective ways of disciplining children out there, why even "resort" to it? To me, it's lazy parenting. Period.

fallbridequeen · September 2009

JCM083009:
What I will just never understand about spanking/hitting is how it's at all logical. Regardless of how you feel about it being mean or not, how the hell do you teach a child "we don't hit" (for example, or whatever bad behavior you don't want) by hitting them??? How confusing is that for a kid? It's not okay for you to do these mean things to others, but it's cool if mommy and daddy spank you.

Amen.

LittleEgypt · September 2009

SMCbride2b:
For the record, I'd like to say that I was spanked as a child and seem to have turned out just fine. My parents weren't abusive in any way, I never felt threatened and still have a great relationship with both of them. DH and I are currently discussing discipline tactics and have agreed that while corporal punishment isn't the best alternative (and should be the very last resort), it isn't an "evil" when it comes to disciplining your kids.

Um, yeah and my dad smoked cigars and let me ride in the back of the pickup. I don't have asthma or lung cancer and I never died in an accident, but those aren't things I plan to do with my child...

SMCbride2b · September 2009

LittleEgypt:

Um, yeah and my dad smoked cigars and let me ride in the back of the pickup. I don't have asthma or lung cancer and I never died in an accident, but those aren't things I plan to do with my child...

Hence, my DH and I discussing different methods of disciplining! I'm just saying that giving a child a spank isn't the most terrible, evil thing a parent could do! There is a whole range of parenting techniques and I just wanted to point out that spanking isn't as awful as some would have you believe. And just to clarify, a "spank" isn't taking your child out behind the barn and beating them with a stick, it's a pat on the bottom!

susiederkins · September 2009

SMCbride2b:
LittleEgypt:

Um, yeah and my dad smoked cigars and let me ride in the back of the pickup. I don't have asthma or lung cancer and I never died in an accident, but those aren't things I plan to do with my child...

Hence, my DH and I discussing different methods of disciplining! I'm just saying that giving a child a spank isn't the most terrible, evil thing a parent could do! There is a whole range of parenting techniques and I just wanted to point out that spanking isn't as awful as some would have you believe. And just to clarify, a "spank" isn't taking your child out behind the barn and beating them with a stick, it's a pat on the bottom!

I don't know where people come up with this puppies and rainbows version of spanking. If it's going to be effective, it has to hurt. That's how punishment works. If you aren't sufficiently motivated to avoid it, it won't work.

cajungirl0717 · September 2009

I'm with SMCbride with this one

I don't have a child yet, but my fiance' and I are discussing discipline techniques. I was spanked as a child. And everytime I guarantee I derserved it. My parents never spanked us just to do so. If we threw a temper tanrum in a store, we got a swat on the bottom. If we were told no and did it anyway, we got a spank. A crying baby should not be spanked, of course. But when teaching right and wrong, I would agree sometimes it is necessary.

I see kids nowadays in stores acting, excuse my term, like a donkey. Throwing things, yelling curse words, being defiant. They need to be disciplined. But its too late for them. They have been let to do so they have no respect for their parentals. I see it in schools. Students being defiant to teachers because they are not taught discipline and respect at home.

I am one of 4 children. 3 of us were all disciplined the same way-spanking and time out. My younger brother used to always get away with stuff and avoid punishment. He is the only one of us at age 23 that is still dependent on mom and dad for EVERYTHING and does whatever he wants because he knows mom and dad will take care of it. Why? I do believe it is because of his lack of discipline.

There is no puppies and rainbows when it comes to discipline, but there is a difference in a smack on the bottom and bruising your child. And that is not a fine line.

cajungirl0717 · September 2009

And as far as "Berlin and colleagues found that children who were spanked as 1-year-olds tended to behave more aggressively at age 2, and did not perform as well as other children on a test measuring thinking skills at age 3", we were all reading at a kindergarten level by age 3, at 1 1/2 i knew my alphabets and could sing several songs word for word, we all finished highschool (all top 5% of the class), and in a year will have all finished college. I don't see how child rearing and children's education level can be equal on this level.

AND the test was done on low-income families who may not have the means to better home educate their children because the parents may not be well educated. That, I believe, is a biased test. No spanking is not more predominent in low income families. My family was not low income. My friends families were not low income. We all got spanked and are all just fine.

scherza · September 2009

Interesting that the only people who are defending spanking as an appropriate disciplinary technique don't have children yet. FWIW, anecdotal evidence (i.e., "it was done to me and I turned out fine") is not as strong as evidence produced by an objective, peer-reviewed study.

While spanking may be highly effective in the short term at stopping objectionable behaviors, it leaves something to be desired in terms of the long term goals for discipline. Ultimately, the goal of disciplining children is to move them away from needing us to control their behavior and toward being able to control their behavior themselves, right? So if that's the ultimate goal, it's more effective to teach and model methods of self-control and self-discipline than it is to whack a kid on the bum.

Hippinski · September 2009

scherza:
Interesting that the only people who are defending spanking as an appropriate disciplinary technique don't have children yet. FWIW, anecdotal evidence (i.e., "it was done to me and I turned out fine") is not as strong as evidence produced by an objective, peer-reviewed study.
While spanking may be highly effective in the short term at stopping objectionable behaviors, it leaves something to be desired in terms of the long term goals for discipline. Ultimately, the goal of disciplining children is to move them away from needing us to control their behavior and toward being able to control their behavior themselves, right? So if that's the ultimate goal, it's more effective to teach and model methods of self-control and self-discipline than it is to whack a kid on the bum.

Will you please stop using common sense. It confuses some people. Stick out tongue

IselaCid · September 2009

So if you saw a husband smacking his wife, would that be OK because it was just a small "tap" and it was effective at stopping a behavior like talking back or something?

No?

Why is that not OK but hitting small children is? Do they not deserve the same respect?

Now I will say this...I have spanked Joaquin...was I proud of myself afterwards? Hell no. Has it happened more than once? Yes.

Last time was right after Isela was born and getting through a day was effing hard. Still no excuse. When Dan came home I cried and told him. Then I told Joaquin that it wasn't OK, that Mommy was very very sorry and that nobody can hit him, not even Mommy or Daddy and that if we ever did he should tell us to stop, don't hit him. He told me "it's OK mommy, it was an accident" and gave me a hug. I can't remember feeling any worse than I felt in those moments.

I'm working really really hard at finding other ways to deal when things hit that wall. It's not OK. At all. But I'll admit that being a parent is hard, really hard. But it's still no excuse to hit. Anybody. Ever.

fallbridequeen · September 2009

cajungirl0717:
And as far as "Berlin and colleagues found that children who were spanked as 1-year-olds tended to behave more aggressively at age 2, and did not perform as well as other children on a test measuring thinking skills at age 3", we were all reading at a kindergarten level by age 3, at 1 1/2 i knew my alphabets and could sing several songs word for word, we all finished highschool (all top 5% of the class), and in a year will have all finished college. I don't see how child rearing and children's education level can be equal on this level.

AND the test was done on low-income families who may not have the means to better home educate their children because the parents may not be well educated. That, I believe, is a biased test. No spanking is not more predominent in low income families. My family was not low income. My friends families were not low income. We all got spanked and are all just fine.

You are fine DESPITE the fact that you were spanked, not because of it. Does anyone ever wonder what children would be like if we did all had higher expectations of ourselves as parents and chose to help them reach their ultimate potential instead of "hoping they turn out ok". Ugh. So frustrating. Children who are spanked/coerced into behaving will never reach their highest potential as a human being. It teaches them nothing but resentment, fear, anger and bullying and that just isn't the kind of adult I want my son to grow up to be.

fallbridequeen · September 2009

cajungirl0717:
And as far as "Berlin and colleagues found that children who were spanked as 1-year-olds tended to behave more aggressively at age 2, and did not perform as well as other children on a test measuring thinking skills at age 3", we were all reading at a kindergarten level by age 3, at 1 1/2 i knew my alphabets and could sing several songs word for word, we all finished highschool (all top 5% of the class), and in a year will have all finished college. I don't see how child rearing and children's education level can be equal on this level.

AND the test was done on low-income families who may not have the means to better home educate their children because the parents may not be well educated. That, I believe, is a biased test. No spanking is not more predominent in low income families. My family was not low income. My friends families were not low income. We all got spanked and are all just fine.

Knowing your ABC's and 123's has so VERY little to do with being a healthy, well-adjusted adult. Knowing that you were always unconditionally loved and respected has far more to do with it. Read Connection Parenting by Pam Leo, it might change your mind about some of your parenting ideas.

cajungirl0717 · September 2009

I have always known that I was loved unconditionally. How dare you challenge my parents affection for me! I can read all the books you want, but I will still believe that when necessary, a spank on the butt does reinforce.

I firmly believe that when the paddle was taken out of school was when school children started acting the way they do now. School violence was not a factor until discipline was taken out.

I am a healthy, well-adjusted adult. I never second guess my parents raising tactics. I have reached my full potential. Just because you believe that it is wrong, which is you OPINION, just as I have my own, does not mean that you have to the right to cut me or my parents down because I was spanked as a child. It doesn't affect me because I know that you just grew up differently.

Same as those parents who allow their children to watch tv all day or play video games instead of going outside with them and doing sports. Even if we would have had video games, we were outside everyday playing sports (baseball, basketball, skating) with or without our parents. Does that make me better than anyone else? Maybe healthier. But it doesn't give me the right to cut down parents who choose to let their children stay inside and be non-physically active. It's all a matter of how you raise your child.

We each will have our own judgement day where God will question what we have done. It is not your right to judge me or others for how we choose to raise our children. Only God's.

Hippinski · September 2009

cajungirl0717:

I firmly believe that when the paddle was taken out of school was when school children started acting the way they do now. School violence was not a factor until discipline was taken out.

I don't give a rat's ass what you think about spanking...especially when real scientific evidence can show you that you are talking out of your ass. But this statement above is CRACKED. Please kindly walk away from this debate before you further prove what an idiot you are.

cajungirl0717 · September 2009

Hippinski,

I'm sorry if you are wound up to tight, but these boards are for opinions. I have the right to post my opinion. You have the right to disagree. But I really don't see the necessity for you to try to destroy me as a person. It won't work. I'm sorry if your point of view comes from you being too protected as a child.

Don't worry I am leaving this post. It's obvious y'all are closed minded on this subject and a crow bar wouldn't even open you up to someone else's opinion

cajungirl0717 · September 2009

"yes my family is very strict religios and in the bibble it says 'spare the rod and spoil the child' or something. they had punishments for everything we did wrong. i was caned, whipped, belted on bare bum and back and legs and woodens spoon as weell. also they used switches. caning usullyon my hands. my grandparents mainly used a paddle and razorstrap. for swearing we had to stand in the corner iwth soap in our mouth and sometimes they sprinkled hot pepper on my tongu.that was for talkin back. i do belief they did the best they cold and hash punishments has made me a better person. "

Post I got when questioning spanking. When I swore, I got the soap in mouth and pepper. Is that wrong too?

E_sharp · September 2009

What happens if one finds themselves in a discipline situation where nothing is working? Not redirection or reasoning or anything? What then? I am not being argumentative, I am really curious. I am on the fence about spanking myself. I get everything that anti-spankers are saying, but I can't assume that "soft" discipline will work in every situation.

Hippinski · September 2009

cajungirl0717:
"yes my family is very strict religios and in the bibble it says 'spare the rod and spoil the child' or something. they had punishments for everything we did wrong. i was caned, whipped, belted on bare bum and back and legs and woodens spoon as weell. also they used switches. caning usullyon my hands. my grandparents mainly used a paddle and razorstrap. for swearing we had to stand in the corner iwth soap in our mouth and sometimes they sprinkled hot pepper on my tongu.that was for talkin back. i do belief they did the best they cold and hash punishments has made me a better person. "

Post I got when questioning spanking. When I swore, I got the soap in mouth and pepper. Is that wrong too?

Yes. What is described above is wrong. It is abuse. There is a HUGE difference between a spanking and a beating/whipping a child.

The more I learn about parenting and spanking the more I question it's effectiveness. I too struggle with what to do when a child does something really naughty and the redirection and natural consequences don't seem to cut it. I don't have the answers or a magic cure...but I also know that I will learn as I go and find what works for us. Beating my child with a rod does not work for us...and pretty sure it would get abuse charges filed on anyone who uses it.

Hippinski · September 2009

cajungirl0717:
Hippinski,

I'm sorry if you are wound up to tight, but these boards are for opinions. I have the right to post my opinion. You have the right to disagree. But I really don't see the necessity for you to try to destroy me as a person. It won't work. I'm sorry if your point of view comes from you being too protected as a child.

Don't worry I am leaving this post. It's obvious y'all are closed minded on this subject and a crow bar wouldn't even open you up to someone else's opinion

Yes...because it is very close minded to disagree with you on your statement that school violence can be blamed on getting rid of corporal punishment. Confused

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