Have you heard about this?! fired for pumping?

taxbride · September 2009

I just read today about the woman who was fired from Totes Isotoner for taking breaks to use her breastpump. She had originally asked for time to pump and was told no, and when she saw other people taking bathroom and smoke breaks, she pumped anyway and, instead of a reprimand or other consequence, she got fired. Then, when she sued, the company spent untold thousands to defend the suit, going all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court instead of settling with her (which I am sure would have cost less than defending the suit).

The most ridiculous part is that the Ohio Supreme Court, including 3 women justices, decided to uphold a lower court ruling holding that breastfeeding is not related to gender or to pregnancy and therefore the employer's actions were not gender or pregnancy related discrimination. And even though the employer would have had to provide leeway for a male employee who was suffering from an enlarged prostate and needed multiple bathroom breaks, not so for the mother who wants to breastfeed.

Here is the article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer about it:

https://www.cleveland.com/schultz/index.ssf/2009/09/working_moms_need_a_break_from.html

Sorry, I don't know how to make the link clicky.

I swear I am not going to buy any more Totes Umbrellas or Isotoner gloves! And I am writing a letter to the CEO.

If you want to write a letter, the address is:

Douglas P. Gernert

Chief Executive Officer & President

Totes Isotoner Corporation

9655 International Blvd.

Cincinnati, Ohio 45246-5658

Tania

TayLynn · September 2009

That case makes me very angry and the fact that the OH Supreme Court decided lactating has nothing to do with pregnancy makes me furious.

rach312 · September 2009

It's terrible. I heard about it the other day. Thanks for the address and info. I don't have the time this week but I'll try and write a letter over the weekend. I was so mad at the situation when I first heard about it and I am no less angry now.

SoontobeSavino · September 2009

If you read the article more closely, it states the she was fired for taking unauthorized breaks, not for breastfeeding. The rulings stated, had she pumped during an authorized break, it would had been a different story. I'm not saying that this is fair in any means, but what she was doing during her unauthorized break isnt the issue here, its that she was taking breaks without permission. Now, who's to say that it really was because she was breastfeeding that she got fired, maybe yes, but had she asked for the break, specifically for breastfeeding, and then gotten told no, then this would just be a whole different case.

britishbride05 · September 2009

SoontobeSavino:
If you read the article more closely, it states the she was fired for taking unauthorized breaks, not for breastfeeding. The rulings stated, had she pumped during an authorized break, it would had been a different story. I'm not saying that this is fair in any means, but what she was doing during her unauthorized break isnt the issue here, its that she was taking breaks without permission. Now, who's to say that it really was because she was breastfeeding that she got fired, maybe yes, but had she asked for the break, specifically for breastfeeding, and then gotten told no, then this would just be a whole different case.

undestandable, but c'mon... how many of those smoker breaks or bathroom breaks are "authorized"? I'm sure those people weren't holding their bladders until their authorized 15 min break or whatever. and i think she did ask for a break for breastfeeding and was denied... i thought i had read that somewhere...

Albah · September 2009

Wow, that's pretty crazy. I agree, taking unauthorized breaks leads to these kinds of consequences. But the fact that she was denied breaks to do so I find to be wrong. I understand that pumping can be scheduled but I pump, so I know that sometimes you can't schedule a pumping session to occur at a certain time of day and for it to fall on your work break. Not only that but who knows how many breaks she gets in a day and it may not match up to the number of breaks she needs to pump to keep up her supply. Thankfully I've never had a problem at my work but some companies need to educate themselves a little better about the benefits of giving babies breastmilk. And one in particular that pertains to work is the fact that it decreases missed days at work because babies tend to be healthier! Thanks for sharing!

SoontobeSavino · September 2009

"Last week, in a 5-1 ruling, the highest court here ruled that an Ohio law that bans discrimination against pregnant women does not protect them from punishment for taking unauthorized breaks to use a breast pump after they birth those babies."

"Allen was fired after her supervisor caught her pumping breast milk during an unscheduled break. Had Allen gotten permission, the court said, she could have asked the justices to decide whether Ohio's pregnancy law protected lactation. But no, she had to go pump when nature called. She blew it, even though there was no evidence that employees had to check with a boss before taking an unscheduled visit to the bathroom. "

Don't get me wrong, its absolutely ridiculous that she got fired, that a company as large as Totes would do such a thing (definitely bad publicity, but publicity nonetheless). The breastfeeding still doesnt seem to be the reason as to why she got fired. Strange, though, I wonder if some who had a horrible case of diarrhea would have gotten fired as well????

love4ever2006 · September 2009

Unbelievable. Just got a nice letter from me. I hope none of the big bosses over there take any unauthorized breaks for smoking, peeing or just to scratch their small balls.

Thanks Tania for the heads up.

MellyMelB · September 2009

The part that gets me is that people are allowed to take multiple smoke breaks....but not allowed to pump breast milk. What a crock. I did not nurse once I came back to work but am lucky that my office has an actual pumping room for nursing mothers to use AND allows nursing moms to take an extra break to go to the daycare to nurse their babies. This story makes me totally appreciate my employer a lot more than I did.

What a crock.

SoontobeSavino · September 2009

So just in an effort to add some debate to the boards, how come as a mom who chose to formula feed her baby was I not entitled to additional breaks that could be used for something baby related, and why was I not permitted to take a break, or leave the office, to go feed my baby a bottle? How come breastfeeding moms have such rights that FF moms dont? It is unfair to offer additional breaks to BF moms and not to FF moms.

MellyMelB · September 2009

SoontobeSavino:
So just in an effort to add some debate to the boards, how come as a mom who chose to formula feed her baby was I not entitled to additional breaks that could be used for something baby related, and why was I not permitted to take a break, or leave the office, to go feed my baby a bottle? How come breastfeeding moms have such rights that FF moms dont? It is unfair to offer additional breaks to BF moms and not to FF moms.

I don't think its a question of fairness. BF moms are taking on an extra responsibility as the source of their baby's nutrition and should be allowed the time. Having done both, I would say that FF your baby makes things a lot easier. Less stress, less hassle, easier for others to pitch in, etc. Its a whole ordeal to choose to breastfeed and if you choose to do it would be nice if your boss was understanding. Are bosses required to be understanding because you are nursing? No. But its the right thing to do.

If you worked here and wanted to go feed your baby, chances are your manager would let you whether you were BF or FF. I was not BF when I got back to work and I was allowed to go and visit Sophia every day during lunch anyway.

I think comparing the two is apple and oranges - if you want to debate it. As much as I loved BFing Sophie and missed it when it was over - I did not miss everything that came with it and do think that FF her was miles easier so if I was a manager I would give BFing moms a break for juggling working and nursing.

southmiamiwifejen · September 2009

The whole thing just sucks all around. It's just a small example of the way that our system doesn't properly respect mothers. Maybe if the standard maternity leave was longer, then you wouldn't have an issue with women needing to pump at work because by the time they went back, they would be more willing to wean or switch to formula. I can't imagine that pumping at work is as much of a problem in, say, Canada, where moms get paid maternity leave for a full year. By the time they go back, it's a non-issue for most people. That's one of the very few things I admire about those countries' more socialized health care systems...they really respect how important mothering a young infant is.

I think forcing moms to go back to work after only 12 weeks (or less) at home with their babies is the root of a lot of these problems. Whether you breastfeed or not, it's sad that that's all the time most of us are given to just be with our babies if we want to continue working.

SoontobeSavino · September 2009

Agree to disagree : ) I think depending on the situation, BF moms actually have it easier than FF moms. Maybe no so much in the work sense, in that they do need to pump, but on a day to day, in my opinion,being a BF mom is easier, especially once they are established BF'ers and they are past any point where there are BF issues or concerns, but thats just MY opinion.

MellyMelB · September 2009

SoontobeSavino:
Agree to disagree : ) I think depending on the situation, BF moms actually have it easier than FF moms. Maybe no so much in the work sense, in that they do need to pump, but on a day to day, in my opinion,being a BF mom is easier, especially once they are established BF'ers and they are past any point where there are BF issues or concerns, but thats just MY opinion.

You could be right....for established breast feeders. LOL. That probably occurs after the first three months, tho, which is when I stopped. I am definitely no expert but FF was easier for me. But that could be because I was DYING for a Margarita and hated pumping and dumping.

SoontobeSavino · September 2009

Yeah, when I had to weigh out my options, I much preferred margaritas and bottles to BF, LOL! But in all honesty, the experience just wasnt for me, and I too, could not wait to have a margarita, in fact, I'd open to having one now!!! Who said you cant drink on the job, lol, thats what nap time is for!

taxbride · September 2009

There is more to the story, of course, than was in that article. The employee had asked for pumping breaks and was told she could pump at her lunch break, 5 hours into her shift, and that was all. That is too long to wait to pump. She was allowed to take a 5 minute break only a few hours into her shift, and she tried to use it to pump, but 5 min is not enough time to pump and she ended up taking 10 minutes instead after she noticed other employees taking longer smoke and bathroom breaks. After 2 weeks, she was caught (in the bathroom-how humiliating!) and told she had to stop. She went to see her boss and asked if she could have 5 more min earlier in the day and was told no. That day, she was fired. Also, totes claims that one of the defenses is that she was a temp and not a full time employee. I don't have the links, but if you google "breastfeeding totes isotoner case" lots of hits come up with more facts than were in that one story.

As a pumping bf mom, I can tell you that it takes work. And delaying pumping can cause physical pain, leakage, not to mention loss of supply. I have sat through a meeting (that overran my pumping time) in a partner's office unable to leave as my breasts felt like they were water balloons. It is quite uncomfortable (plus you hope you don't leak). Not so for the ff mom. Chalk that up as a benefit of ff. I personally can't bill my pumping time to any client, so I have to make it up by staying later, going in on days off or taking work home. I know how lucky I am to have a flexible schedule, but I do not get special treatment bc of my pumping!

Also, ff moms do not have a biological need to extract formula from their bodies, hence the difference. If those ff moms were smokers, they would get their smoking breaks, and that would be for their choice to smoke, for goodness sake.

It really burns me up more that they thought it would be a good use of resources to defend the suit rather than grant 5 or 10 more minutes, even unpaid, during a workday. And that the idiot justices ruled on such a technicality. Some of the justices in the concurring opinion stated that if if had been related to pregnancy then it would have been protected.

taxbride · September 2009

SoontobeSavino:
Agree to disagree : ) I think depending on the situation, BF moms actually have it easier than FF moms. Maybe no so much in the work sense, in that they do need to pump, but on a day to day, in my opinion,being a BF mom is easier, especially once they are established BF'ers and they are past any point where there are BF issues or concerns, but thats just MY opinion.

I definitely agree that breastfeeding is way easier than formula feeding, and I'm all about practicality and am lazy to boot, so that was one of my own personal reasons to nurse my kids! LOL The pumping is the PITA part, but, as long as you can do it (and don't get fired for it!) I think that is totally worth it, too, obviously, since I am doing that, too.

And once the baby goes to sleep for the night, I can toss back a margarita, too!

TayLynn · September 2009

taxbride:

And once the baby goes to sleep for the night, I can toss back a margarita, too!

Yep! Nothing like a beer with my pizza!

If you plan a little, you can drink while BFing. You don't even have to pump and dump. You just have to wait at least two hours for each drink.

I really salute women who pump. It's a commitment and some employers do not make it easy.

State laws vary. Florida has okay BFing laws in general (You can BF in public- even show nipple- and it's not indecent exposure.) But I don't think there is a law requiring employers to give pumping breaks.

In states like IL, there are specific laws for pumping at work.

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Have you heard about this?! fired for pumping?

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