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2nd Trimester
for those of you choosing not to circumcise
My husband and I just found out that we are going to have a boy last week. Unfortunately we have very different opinions about circumcision and it has been a non stop topic of conversation since we found out. I am feeling alone and backed in to a corner with all of his family influenced by the social "norms". My husband does have a good point with a reduced risk of tearing later in our boys life. I however have been a strong believer that circumcision is a cosmetic surgery that removes a very sensitive portion of the penis, and is straight out unneccesary. Not to mentione that I feel it is cruel to put my newborn through such a cruel act.
I know about all of the supposed benefits for circumcision. For those of you choosing not to circumcise what were the reasons that influenced your decision? Do you have any resources that helped back your decision?
TIA,
Ivy
This discussion has been closed.
Re: for those of you choosing not to circumcise
Our first son is circumcised and our second is not. This little guy won't be either. My second son had some odd blood tests as a newborn (that turned out to be nothing) and couldn't get it done. By the time we were "allowed" to get it done, he would have had to be put under and I didn't want to do it.
My second has always been easier to care for. My first had some adhesions and seems to get dirtier easier. I just don't see the point of circumcising anymore. The is no drastic "better" either way. My husband who was really pushing to get our second circ'd is now of the same opinion as me...he just doesn't see the point now.
Watch the circumcision episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit. I think it is an HBO or Showtime program. That convinced my dh that he didn't like the idea of any future son of his being circumcised.
Thank goodness we have a girl so the point is moot.
You may want to repost this in the Attachment Parenting community. Circumcision is often a topic of discussion over there.
If we have a boy, we will not circumcise. There are a lot of complications that can occur with a circumcision and I've been told that in our area, they do not generally use pain killers on the newborn. I also have other moral issues that I won't get into. Essentially, DH and I agreed that our LO can make the decision for himself when he is older.
We are choosing not to circumcise our baby for a couple of reasons. My husband is not circumcised. The medical reasons for circumcision are not completely compelling in my opinion (penile cancer and UTIs are rare anyway). Also, I think the number of babies being circumcised is decreasing (partially due to insurance companies not covering the procedure)- its only about 50-60% now, if I'm remembering correctly. So I think either way will be "socially normal". The idea of the risks of surgery and complications and the pain involved were main factors for us in deciding against.?
?
That being said, it seems like a personal decision since there are pros and cons for either. If my husband really wanted to have the baby circumcised, I might go with his opinion since he is the one with the experience. GL with your decision.?
DH is not circumcised and if we have a son we will not snip him. I don't know what supposed benefits you have heard of but being circumcised does not make you cleaner, it does not help protect you from STD's, I firmly believe that there will be some sensation loss by getting circumcised, I mean come on! You are cutting off a piece of the body! Being uncircumsised does help protect from irritation and foriegn bodies getting on that sensitive body part. Some men who got circumcised later in life liken it to having a big callous on their penis and that reduces the sensation, they also liken circumcision to having sex with a condom on, they get much less sensation. there aren't may studies of this out there because most men who aren't snipped as a child will not choose to be snipped later in life. Sorry to be a little religious here, but I also believe that God put that little piece of skin there for a reason and it should be left there.
I will however say that it could be a very aquward and uncomfortable conversation that your DH will have with his son if they are not the same.
I wish you good luck in convincing your DH.
A friend just sent me this
https://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t101500.asp
Thanks for all of the responses. My DH is under the impression that all uncircumcised men tear everytime they have a sexual encounter, or at least have a good chance of tearing. This is due to the testemony of friends that he had in high school and throughout life. My argument against this, is that in any sexual encounter there is a risk of injury, wheter it be scratches, teeth scraping, or more extreme fractures. Having personal previous experience with an uncut man I found it easier to work with than a cut mans. It is akward to be thinking about these things in regards to our sun, but we do want him to have a happy and healthy sex life when he is old enough. Another concern of his is the slightly (less than 1%) improved odds for cancer and avoiding STD's. I have tried telling him that circumcision is not a form of contraception to be used to avoid STD's and the risk of cancer is minimal anyways, especially since neither of us has a family history of it. His response is that even if it is a 1% chance that is better than nothing.
My husband did watch the Penn and Teller video, but he says they have no credibility and did not even want to hear it. We have also had him watch videos of the procedure being done and while it did make him hesitate, he followed it up with video of a smiling, gigling, happy boy one day after surgery.
I feel like I am at a loss and being pressured to make a decision that goes against what I believe in. I wish this was a decision that we didn't even have to decide on.
Thanks for all of the help everyone.
We're not going to circumcise and DH & I are in agreement.
One thing that caught me by surprise is that although I had strong feeling about it prior to our big u/s, when we found out we were having a boy I suddenly felt like I wanted to leave the decision up to DH. Perhaps because so much of pregnancy and baby care is the mother's domain, it felt right to let him have the final word on something - but he still agreed with me anyway.
We just feel it's an unnecessary procedure. The risk of anything going wrong with a circumcision is small, but to me the benefits don't even outweigh that small risk - if we were responsible for permanently damaging my son's penis for no pressing reason, I could never forgive myself. If you want my husband's take on it, he thinks that if there's any chance circumcision decreases sensation for an adult man (not really clear from research because it's hard to compare!), that's not something he wants to do to his son.
ETA: By the way I once dated a guy who was uncut for over 2 yrs and he never mentioned any issues with tearing! - I have never heard of that before.
If we have a boy we will not circumcise because DH is not... DH is from Europe and in his part of the world it is only done for religous reasons ..... he has made his position on this topic clear along time ago - since we even before we were even TTC. This is the only reason we are not doing it.
?Same here. ?DH is from France. ?People say it's clean/more hygienic, but he has never had a problem with infection or odor. ?I think it's a horrible thing to do to a baby, anyway. ?We will not be circumcising our son. ?
I think his friends are doing it wrong...cause DH is not and he has never torn ever.
We live in Canada and in our province, circumcision is no longer covered under provincial health care as it is not medically necessary and is also seen as rather barbaric to cause such pain when it is not necessary. Therefore, if you want it done, you pay for it.
The College of Physicians and Surgeons were the ones who pushed for this. They state the it is not medically necessary and in fact can result in urinary tract infection, urinary retention, meatal stenosis and hemorrhage (as was seen in a tragic case in our province that resulted in the death of a one-month-old). There are also concerns it can reduce sexual pleasure.
Doctors in my province are under no obligation to perform a circumcision even if the parent requests. They are allowed to decline.
From pp link: https://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t101500.asp this is what Dr. Sears had to say about this situation:
Circumcision is very rarely necessary for medical reasons, but occasionally the foreskin does not retract, becomes tight and infected, and obstructs the flow of urine. This unusual condition, called phimosis, requires circumcision. If circumcision for phimosis is necessary later on in childhood or adulthood, however, an anesthesia is given.
It is an American societal norm. The norm is very different in other parts of the world.
I don't know how to help you, I'm sorry! I feel for you, though. I'm sorry you aren't being heard very well. You are the child's mother!! Sheesh.
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
First a big hug to you.
Second - warning of a super long post with links!
I was in your shoes four years ago when expecting Jack. DH is circ'ed and wanted his son circ'ed. Period.
I just didn't see the point and had two adult intact brothers who had never had a single problem. The more I researched the more opposed I became but DH was insistant.
It was a long lasting and passionate argument that lasted from 20 weeks to almost the end of my pregnancy. At least once a week I was in tears over it. But every time I wanted to just give in and stop the fighting I would think of the day I would have to hand over my perfect baby boy, knowing full well what would happen when he left the room and I just couldn't.
So I proposed that DH and I state our cases to each other using actual medical studies and proven reasearch not just our personal opinions. My brothers were also kind enough to share some experiences of growing up, as J would, as an intact white male in an upper class suburb where circumcision is common. (I think those distinctions are important - as some of M's concerns were the 'locker room syndrome' the reaction of J's future sexual partners etc. and these experiences would be different in an area with a high population of other cultures where circ was less common.)
My brothers were able to share that growing up in the circ happy 80's and attending public high school with communal locker rooms/showers never posed a single problem for either of them. The younger of my brothers was more open to discussing, well, himself : ) and he had said point blank that no guy would ever comment on another guy's 'junk' as that would be admitting you were looking at it. He had also said that his girlfriend had not even noticed and wasn't concerned that he wasn't.
(Not sure if you know, but in most cases an erect adult intact penis is visually identical to an erect adult circumcised penis. Having never seen an adult intact penis that really surprised me.)
The older brother had agreed he had never had a partner react poorly to his 'status' (and he is much more of a man whore, LOL)
Here is some other information I found helpful in stating my case:
American Cancer society statement of circumcision and penile cancer:
https://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_Can_penile_cancer_be_prevented_35.asp?rnav=cri
* Did you know that statistically it would make more sense to routinely remove the breast tissue of infant girls to prevent breast cancer than to circ based on penile cancer - where the incidence is 3 men per million.
Map of world incidence of circumcision:
https://www.circumstitions.com/Maps.html
AARP Circ policy:
https://www.cirp.org/library/statements/aap1999/
Study on rates of UTI in circ'ed and intact infant males:
https://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/mueller/
British Journal of Urology article on penile sensitivity:
https://www.nocirc.org/touch-test/bju_6685.pdf
Bollinger study on circ rates:
https://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2003/
FDA article - injury from circ clamps:
https://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/Safety/AlertsandNotices/PublicHealthNotifications/ucm062279.htm
Canadian Medical Association article on circ injuries:
https://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/169/3/216
Journal of the AAP article on lack of pain relief used during circ:
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/101/6/e5
All of this is really tip of the iceberg information I was able to pull together for you quickly.
Mothering dot commune has a forum on circumcision. There are some very passionate people there - but there are also a ton of useful links to information and studies. You don't have to post or interact with anyone to use the resources.
https://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=44
If you search the forum, having this argument with a partner is a common post there so you can also reap the benefits of responses to others in your shoes. (I can't tell you how much I wish I knew about this when I was going through it.)
There is a study I used that I am having a hard time finding. It was a study on the effectiveness of pain relief methods where the data coming from the 'control' group of no pain relief methods (a very common occurance in US hospitals) were so indicitive of trauma to the baby the study was discontinued based on ethics. I'll keep digging trying to find it for you.
In the end, M really couldn't find a whole lot of data that I could not factually dispute and finally agreed that there was no valid reason that a circumcison was medically necesary and that our son(s) should have the right to make these decisions about their own bodies.
I was worred he would feel differently when J was born or be weird about changing dipes, etc. but he got over it pretty quickly. He made sure that all of our doctors in the hospital were aware of our decision to leave J intact, and after holding J, he said that he could then understand how upset I would be over the thought of 'hurting him like that'.
My brothers did ask what we decided, but other than that my family never brought it up. My MIL on the other hand, was horrified to see J still had a foreskin when hovering during a dipe change. She ranted, but M informed her that research proved it unneccesary and it was not a topic up for discussion. And that was the last we heard of it.
Almost 4 years later, M was sharing information with his brother about not having his baby circ'ed, and is glad we made the choice we did. And obviously new baby won't be circ'ed either.
The whole thing was horrible and stressful and casted a big dark cloud over the joy of pregnancy, but I will never ever regret fighting for what I believe to be the right choice for my sons. (where I know I would have very much regretted caving to the pressure and going against my instincts and having him circ'ed.)
Good luck with everything and feel free to PM me or page me if you need to vent or a shoulder to lean on.
Dena
FET #1 = BFP on 5/2011
Hi, I have nothing to add to this discussion, but I wanted to say we are in the middle of the exact same "discussion." I also see it as elective, and agree that the person with the penis - my son - can make the decision. DH is very emotional about this (surprisingly, since he is normally very logical), but is open to discussion, as am I. He has all the same concerns about looking the same (how my tiny son will look the "same" as DH's big hairy one is beyond me) and how it is perceived in locker rooms, with partners, etc. We are not decided yet but I'm sure it will be an ongoing thing.
Anyway, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who responded. Especially monksmama - I c&p'ed your response for the next time this discussion comes up.
No problem
And for the record, J has showered with M a few times and his only concern was that daddy's was 'so big' and his was little. (LOL, boys)
Also, I know M was concerned about caring for a part he *technically* didn't have, but really it is no care at all. I wash it the same way I wash his elbow and that's it. You are NEVER, EVER supposed to retract the foreskin so the only required care is to leave it alone.