Question from 2nd tri-er. Huge problem, need advice...

gkatieh · August 2009

I posted this on 2nd tri, but I wanted to come over here too in case some of y'all have come across this and have some advice.

I don't know what to do, but I know what I WANT to do...

My ILs have an issue. They will not put my nieces in their car seats. They take the to church not in their car seats. Yes, it's only 5 miles away, but the road is a 55MPH 2 lane BUSY highway. My BIL, SIL, and nieces now live in Fort leanardwood Missouri. We met them halfway in Tennesse this past February and DH and I took the little one in our car and the ILs took the older one (she was 3 1/2 at the time) with them. It was icy and snowing and awful weather through the mountains. Later My FIL said something about her in the car and my MIL shushed him. i asked her what he was saying and she admitted that they didn't make my niece sit in her car seat. Then they TOLD HER TO LIE TO US about it. So the next week my SIL flew down and visited as well and I asked my niece in front of her mother "did you sit in your car seat in the van" and she got upset and said No of course, but she was so upset because her own grandparents told her to lie to her mom and to me and she didn't know what to do. Those are just a couple incidents that we've had.

So now I've been given some carseats from some friends and I told my MIL that now she will have a car seat so there is NO excuse to not put my baby in it and she said "I'm not putting him in it, I wanna hold him!" Totally serious. I then said "then he's not going ANYWHERE with you EVER" and she changed her tune "I was just kidding, I will blah blah blah"

Well she's an effing liar. They lie about everything. So I don't know what to do. my husband agrees that the kids should be in a car seat 1000000% of the time, but he sticks up for his parents all the time and doesn't want to argue with them about it and tells me to chill. I think he just thinks there is a rainbow and sunshine way to talk to them about it, but doesn't know it. I don't think there is one personally. But for the record, he agrees the kids should be belted at all times.

I don't freaking care if my husband and BIL never rode in a carseat. i don't care if nothing ever happen (well, I'm THANKFUL). But that does NOT mean that someone won't pull out in front of them while they are going 65 miles an hour one mile from our house and my baby won't die.

So I want to basically say "Sorry but he's never going anywhere with you". I don't care. I can't stand them, but my DH doesn't want me to be harsh. But I don't know how else to handle it. I can take him in my car to church with them and then drop him off and leave, but what if they decide to leave early or something? Anyone know of a scary video I can show them of dead kids not in their seats and seatbelts correctly? SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My baby's LIFE is obviously much more important to me than their feelings will ever come close to be. I will never let them ride with them while this is their attitude, but I need to know if there is a better way to approach it.

(Sorry for all the lower cases that should be CAPS. This shift button SUCKS)

EXL311 · August 2009

There is no way in hell my child would be riding with them. They can make excuses and lie now but what if your child dies in an accident? There's no going back then. I would just tell your DH that it's nonnegotiable. I would make it explicitly clear to them that they are not to drive with your child ever. If they want to leave church early then they can call you.

DandR · August 2009

If you never have an opportunity for them to take your kids in their car, this will never be an issue...just don't make any suggestions for GTG's or anything that would involve them driving your kids...simple.

Brewster · August 2009

It sounds like you already know what is right. And for what it's worth, I would totally call the cops on someone driving around with a toddler/baby/preschooler not in a car seat. Like you said, it's just not worth the risk.

In fact, if they are going to ask a 3.5 year old to lie to their parents, well for me, there would be no unsupervised visiting. You just can not trust them.

goodheartedmommy · August 2009

car-safety.org is a great place to start.

And this is an area where you SHOULD be harsh. People who won't respect basic carseat safety should not be driving a child.

One good thing to remind her of is how much force it would take to restrain a child in her arms in a crash (the weight of the child multiplied by the speed of the crash--so basically with a 10 lb child, in a 35 mph collision, it would take 350 lbs of force to hold the child).

BrainySmurfette · August 2009

Brewster:

It sounds like you already know what is right. And for what it's worth, I would totally call the cops on someone driving around with a toddler/baby/preschooler not in a car seat. Like you said, it's just not worth the risk.

In fact, if they are going to ask a 3.5 year old to lie to their parents, well for me, there would be no unsupervised visiting. You just can not trust them.

I agree with this. I would never let them drive with the baby, ever. I would also make sure that your SIL knows that your ILs are doing this with her children.

penguingrrl · August 2009

I would never let my children ride with them. Period. They don't respect the law regarding carseats and anyone who does not put my child's safety first will never drive them anywhere.

kevschickee2 · August 2009

EXL311:
There is no way in hell my child would be riding with them. They can make excuses and lie now but what if your child dies in an accident? There's no going back then. I would just tell your DH that it's nonnegotiable. I would make it explicitly clear to them that they are not to drive with your child ever. If they want to leave church early then they can call you.

I agree

jessicaclare · August 2009

There is no way my children would ever ride in a car with them. Never. I would not back down on it and I wouldn't care what DH said. This is your child's life and that is far more important than a strained relationship with your ILs.

The bottom line is that they can be the safest drivers on earth, but the second the pull onto the road, they are surrounding themselves with the unpredictable.

EliseB0323 · August 2009

I would not allow my child to ride with anyone who does not use a car seat. Period. Do not negotiate with them. Do not try to change their minds. Just don't let them ride in their car. Ever.

abpdjs · August 2009

i ditto pp on calling the cops while they have your nieces. the risk they are taking with their grandkids lives is INSANE!

if i were you i would NEVER let them drive your kids or be with them unsupervised as you cannot trust them.

what does your sil/bil do about this problem since these are their kids?

gkatieh · August 2009

abpdjs:

i ditto pp on calling the cops while they have your nieces. the risk they are taking with their grandkids lives is INSANE!

if i were you i would NEVER let them drive your kids or be with them unsupervised as you cannot trust them.

what does your sil/bil do about this problem since these are their kids?

They've told them a hundred times. They live across the country now so they don't have to deal with it anymore. But this past incident I had the girls and the BIL and SIL weren't there for a week and a half and I had to take care of it. I took my nieces to church once and picked them up because I knew they wouldn't put them in a carseat. I was really rude to them about it but they still didn't care.

BTW carseats is not the first thing they've asked me or the girls to lie to their parents about.

I think y'all are right, there is no nice way to approach it and when they don't get to take my baby anywhere with them, they'll get the picture. And my husband will have to get over the fact that his parents are idiots.

abpdjs · August 2009

gkatieh:
abpdjs:

i ditto pp on calling the cops while they have your nieces. the risk they are taking with their grandkids lives is INSANE!

if i were you i would NEVER let them drive your kids or be with them unsupervised as you cannot trust them.

what does your sil/bil do about this problem since these are their kids?

They've told them a hundred times. They live across the country now so they don't have to deal with it anymore. But this past incident I had the girls and the BIL and SIL weren't there for a week and a half and I had to take care of it. I took my nieces to church once and picked them up because I knew they wouldn't put them in a carseat. I was really rude to them about it but they still didn't care.

BTW carseats is not the first thing they've asked me or the girls to lie to their parents about.

I think y'all are right, there is no nice way to approach it and when they don't get to take my baby anywhere with them, they'll get the picture. And my husband will have to get over the fact that his parents are idiots.

wow, i am really sorry. that is just crazy and sad that they just don't get it or respect their childrens wishes for the safety/sake of their grandkids.

ErinNConnorsMom · August 2009

Um, no way. When it comes to my child's safety, I don't give a crap about others' feelings. Case in point: 3 days after my ds was born, we went to church w/ the inlaws. My FIL took Erin to his car and put her in the front seat, not buckled in and started to back out (just in a parking lot). My 3 day pp rear end ran to the car, where I yanked open the car door and told FIL that my kids do NOT go ANYWHERE in a car without being in a carseat. Period. I think my inlaws were a little hurt and taken aback at first, but our relationship is fine now. Do what's best for your baby!

EastCoastBride · August 2009

So your Dh doesn't want you to be harsh. fine. You dont' have to be harsh. But is he implying that you all should just chance it and let his parents take your child when he KNOWS what they do? Is his idea of you "chillin" to let his parents drive your son?

If so- this is also a huge DH problem and 100% UNACCEPTABLE. Where are his priorities? W/ your DS's life or w/ appeasing his parents?

Also:

I can take him in my car to church with them and then drop him off and leave, but what if they decide to leave early or something?

why is your child going to church w/ them w/o you? Whatever the reason, stop doing this. Either you go to church too or your child doesn't go at all.

gkatieh · August 2009

EastCoastBride:

So your Dh doesn't want you to be harsh. fine. You dont' have to be harsh. But is he implying that you all should just chance it and let his parents take your child when he KNOWS what they do? Is his idea of you "chillin" to let his parents drive your son?

If so- this is also a huge DH problem and 100% UNACCEPTABLE. Where are his priorities? W/ your DS's life or w/ appeasing his parents?

Also:

I can take him in my car to church with them and then drop him off and leave, but what if they decide to leave early or something?

why is your child going to church w/ them w/o you? Whatever the reason, stop doing this. Either you go to church too or your child doesn't go at all.

I prob should have been more clear. when I start to talk about this to my husband I get really worked up. I think that's what he means by chill. Telling me to chill in that moment.

The church thing... They are very active in their Baptist church. They go like 5 times a week and like to take their grandkids and show them off. The baby of course will be going with us on Sunday mornings to our Presbyterian church that only has Sunday AM sevices, but on Wednesday nights and Sunday nights they may ask to take him. And I hate that church so I'm not going. I don't want my kids going to that church regularly either due to the church's teachings (not Baptist teachings, don't flame me there. Just THAT church. It's crazy), but that's a whole other story and post and discussion LOL

wildflower865 · August 2009

It is sometimes hard for me to stand up to my parents of ILs (or DH) for things. This is one thing I would not hesitate to dig my heels in about. My kids would absolutely never be in the car with them. Even if you got them to truly put them in carseats, you know they wouldn't buckle them tightly enough. Seriously we have a different issue with my mom and I have NEVER left my kids alone with her. Yet it puts a serious cramp in our style, so much we culd do if we had a grandma who could take the kids, etc. NOT AT ALL worth losing the kids over.

jen5-03 · August 2009

I chewed my dad a new one for driving DD to the park without a carseat and it's just 6 houses down the block from my house on a quiet residential street!

If one of those babies flew out the windshield at 55mph, there would be nothing left but a greasy spot on the road. There's just no way an infant could survive that. The only "nice" way I can think of to put it is to stress that it's not their driving you're worried about but the other crazy drivers out there.

I'd have to agree with the others - no unsupervised visits. Even if one of them were at my house with no car available, I don't think I'd let them have an unsupervised visit because they think it's acceptable to ask the kids to lie.

GinandTonic · August 2009

Does the fact that it's ILLEGAL mean anything to them? You SHOULD call the cops on them...

Ciarrai · August 2009

There is no way my kids would be riding with them if I wasn't in the car with them making sure they were in car seats. Like you said, your DC life and safety is more important than anyone's feelings. I'm the obnoxious DIL that doesn't allow the ILs alone with my kids for a lot less than that. They don't know it and we've never said anything about it, but we just don't leave them alone. DH thinks I'm overreacting, but he respects it. I've said it a few times on this board, but DH and I have a family rule. If either of us is uncomfortable with something to do with the girls, we don't do it. DH is very sensative about drinking (long story) so no one who is driving the girls around has anything to drink - me, my mom, etc. In the same way, my "irrational fears" when it comes to the ILs maybe be that irrational, but since it makes me uncomfortable, DH doesn't leave the girls alone with them. (They do live out of state so it's not usually a big deal either way.)

I would also call the cops on my ILs the next time I knew my nieces were in the car with them. Seriously, that is just awful!!!

ETA - You're the parent. You don't want your kids going to that church, they don't go. It's your child and your decision (along with your DH). If your DH feels strongly enough to let the kids go to church with the ILs, he can go to.

BTW - No way in hell would these people ever be alone with my kids. Not just encouraging but telling kids to lie to their parents?!?! That would be the last straw to me and they'd be lucky to have any relationship with my kids. (And no matter what they said, they would never ever drive with my kids in the car.)

mlfricke · August 2009

My child would never ride with them. Period. Even if they said they'd put him in a carseat, I'd never trust they were being honest.

EastCoastBride · August 2009

Ah- thanks for the explanation. but my advice stands. They can want to show off their grandkids all they want. that doesnt' mean they get to do it! Being a grandparent doesn't give them the "right" to take their grandkids places.

As long as you and DH are on the same page w/ what church your kids go to, all this needs to be is "Sorry, mom, but we'd rather that the kids not go to your church.". Or even just a "That isn't going to work for us anymore" - depending on how much your DH wants to avoid the topic.

The safety of your child has to come first. my IL's woudl LOVE to watch DS - but they are not capable of it. Luckily they've never pushed it, but if they did - we'd be a bit more upfront w/ them and have to tell them " no". DS's well being matters more than their feelings.

ETA: And where does your DH stand on this? Does his desire to not upset his parents mean he wants to let them take your son?

katie277s · August 2009

jessicaclare:
There is no way my children would ever ride in a car with them. Never. I would not back down on it and I wouldn't care what DH said. This is your child's life and that is far more important than a strained relationship with your ILs.
The bottom line is that they can be the safest drivers on earth, but the second the pull onto the road, they are surrounding themselves with the unpredictable.

This. 100%.

LinzDavid · August 2009

EastCoastBride:
Ah- thanks for the explanation. but my advice stands. They can want to show off their grandkids all they want. that doesnt' mean they get to do it! Being a grandparent doesn't give them the "right" to take their grandkids places.

SpartanGirl · August 2009

Brewster:
.
In fact, if they are going to ask a 3.5 year old to lie to their parents, well for me, there would be no unsupervised visiting. You just can not trust them.

I agree. There is no way in hell they would ever, ever be left alone with my kids. I don't care the reasons. I would never leave my child with someone I don't trust. Just because they're family, doesn't make a difference.

getnmarried910 · August 2009

I somehow missed this on 2nd tri, but there is no way that I'd let my kids ride with them, EVER. We don't even let our kids ride with MIL because she doesn't remember to buckle their seatbelts properly, she is a horrible driver and I'm scared to ride with her. She has hit two of our cars over the past couple years. Our cars were parked and she wasn't paying attention. She never offered to have the damage repaired. She has hit her own garage.

Bellisimo · August 2009

I didn't read much past the first paragraph or so because I see where it's going. NO WAY in a million years would I allow them to care for my kids....period! Not putting kids in carseats is stupid, negligent and (in my state) against the law! So....I would have ZERO problems telling them that they, under no uncertain terms, would be caring for my children. YH can word it however he wants, but the answer would still be No, No, NO and Hellll NO. Don't budge an inch on this matter!

gkatieh · August 2009

EastCoastBride:

Ah- thanks for the explanation. but my advice stands. They can want to show off their grandkids all they want. that doesnt' mean they get to do it! Being a grandparent doesn't give them the "right" to take their grandkids places.

As long as you and DH are on the same page w/ what church your kids go to, all this needs to be is "Sorry, mom, but we'd rather that the kids not go to your church.". Or even just a "That isn't going to work for us anymore" - depending on how much your DH wants to avoid the topic.

The safety of your child has to come first. my IL's woudl LOVE to watch DS - but they are not capable of it. Luckily they've never pushed it, but if they did - we'd be a bit more upfront w/ them and have to tell them " no". DS's well being matters more than their feelings.

ETA: And where does your DH stand on this? Does his desire to not upset his parents mean he wants to let them take your son?

sorry I got super busy at work....

he agrees that the kids should 10000% be in their car seat at ALL times. He's just very unconfrontational (Sp?? that looks weird...) and I am opposite-very feisty. So when we talk about it he gets upset because I'm upset and doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He said he will tell them that the baby has to be in his seat ABSOLUTELY. So he is on the same page, but just isn't sure on how to confront his parents about it, where I on the hand want to say "sorry, you effed up your chance to be with my kids."

I think what needs to happen is we need to sit down, without getting pissed at each other, without me getting all worked up and without him getting upset I'm talking about his parents and we need to discuss this and figure it all out.

I LOVE the idea of no matter what, if one parent feels uncomfortable, then THAT'S IT. I will def try this out with DH.

we're on the same page, we're just not approaching it the same. So I'll play the compromise card.

Thanks ladies

GrowingFamily · August 2009

Brewster:

It sounds like you already know what is right. And for what it's worth, I would totally call the cops on someone driving around with a toddler/baby/preschooler not in a car seat. Like you said, it's just not worth the risk.

In fact, if they are going to ask a 3.5 year old to lie to their parents, well for me, there would be no unsupervised visiting. You just can not trust them.

This 1000%.

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