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Attachment Parenting
"sleep-training" is not a bad word
I'm so tired of defending "sleep-training." I was given the baby whisperer as a shower gift and it has worked brilliantly! we have a child that has been STTN for months and months now and she takes 2 solid naps a day with NO fussiness (except 1 week of crazy teething.) the EASY method is nothing out of the ordinary. it's common sense actually -- eat, activity and sleep. as adults we do not have a big meal and then immediately go to bed. so why should it be different with infants and children?
if we simply watched out for dd's inconsistant "sleep cues" we would have a frustrated and very tired family. our sleep schedule is hardly set in stone. it is all about creating a routine and babies like routine! dd has her breakfast and then we read and play for a few hours (sometimes it's 1 1/2 hours sometimes it's 3.) then it's off to bed for a nap. she expects it and she doesn't fight it. amazing!
we have a well rested, thriving and healthy little girl. I will probably get completely beat up now for posting this but you know what? our household is sane as a result of the baby whisperer. life was pretty chaotic before I read it. simply following sleep cues wasn't happening for us (I must be a terrible and disconnected mother.) dd didn't always show them until exhausted hysterics. the baby whisperer provided solid and logical guidance and I'm forever thankful for what we learned.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: "sleep-training" is not a bad word
I'm gonna say you were paying attention to what your baby needs - which is far from disconnected. One method didn't work, so you found one that did. You said yourself that you're all happy and well-rested.
Thanks for posting this side of the story. I've got the book on my stack and am looking forward to reading it now.
We used Babywise (which follows a eat, play, sleep schedule) and my kid has slept like a champ since 6 weeks. Napped with no issues. I just purchased Toddlerwise and I just love it.
Sears suggests you watch for sleep cues for a week before starting a schedule so you'll know when baby normally gets sleepy and can schedule nap time / bedtime for then. In the baby sleep book, he even uses the term sleep-training to define what *that* book is all about.
So, yeah. If someone's knocking you for the term, they need to go do some homework.
Same with us. We did the EASY routine and DD was sleeping 5 hours a night starting at 2 weeks old and 8 hours at 5 weeks old. After that it kept getting better and better. I felt much more connected to my DD because I knew exactly what she needed every time she cried. And my baby wasn't starving because I didn't feed on demand either, unless you consider 95th percentile in weight skinny. The three hours in between feedings were heavenly! I could do whatever I wanted. And DD was perfectly happy the entire time because she was fully rested and fully fed. My friends IRL who have used the EASY routine have had similar results.
I get not wanting to withhold feedings because of a schedule, but a routine is so beneficial to all people in general. I don't see why it wouldn't be good for babies too. Babies don't come out pre-programmed to know when they should eat and sleep. It is our jobs as parents to help set healthy routines early.
I mentioned this in the s/o sleep training post below. I think it's the 'training' is perceived as negative. Parenting IS guidance, training, listening and learning. Not sure why if I imply I am providing sleep training, it implies I don't take into account my child's cues, etc.
Interesting! I have never heard of this or read about this, but this is what my baby seems to do naturally. Who writes about this? I'd like to read more.
I don't know who's approach that 2-3-4 method is, I heard about it here on the Nest from another mom. It seemed easy peasy and worth a try, so we did it and never looked back. It's easy for the grandparents to remember too when they watch her.
Now I just have to figure out what happens when she transitions to one nap. :-)
thanks for posting this! it's so good to hear what works for other mommies (we are having sleep issues as you maybe can tell from my post below. and in a way i would call what i'm doing today - putting them in their cribs for naps and following a specific pattern before doing so - "training.")
i also agree with the pp who said that sometimes helping a baby to learn a routine that will ensure better daytime or nighttime sleep is what's best for the baby. not necessarily the parent. (in fact i would MUCH rather just wear/rock/swing M&D to sleep and have them down here with me than put them in their cribs, but they are already sleeping WAY better up there.)
and FWIW, there was not a moment when i "let them cry" today. that is my big issue with most "training." well, that and ignoring cues, which obviously you are not advocating. but i agree reading those cues can be soooo hard.
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I admit whenever I hear 'sleep training' I think of CIO/Weissbluth/extinction or Ferberizing.
No-cry methods like Pantley or Hogg don't come to mind when I hear that terminology. But I guess it makes sense to include those approaches with the term.
to be honest here, there is no "training" involved with EASY. I think that is an unfair use of the word. it's about guidance and using common sense. again, routine is key. am I a bad mother? no way. dh's coworker with an 8 month old boy that is up every 3-4 hours each night and controlling their lives? are they unhappy parents? you better believe it!
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Roaringrock... I was just discussing semantics.
FWIW, I did EASY, too. I didn't feel like it was really "training" her. There was no rigid schedule. Just a rhythm/routine. It worked quite well. I liked the predictability. But I'm not sure I'll do it next time. Sears' 'nursing down' might give us longer naps. I think DD's naps were so short just because she'd want to eat. Her naps were rarely more than 30 minutes long. :::sob:::
Roaringrock... I was just discussing semantics.
FWIW, I did EASY, too. I didn't feel like it was really "training" her. There was no rigid schedule. Just a rhythm/routine. It worked quite well. I liked the predictability. But I'm not sure I'll do it next time. Sears' 'nursing down' might give us longer naps. I think DD's naps were so short just because she'd want to eat. Her naps were rarely more than 30 minutes long. :::sob:::
I totally agree with you! (sorry if what I said came out wrong.)
as you know EASY does fall under "sleep-training" so it does get hazed.
2 infertiles' journey to 2 pink lines (and a baby girl)
"our IF story"
Um, this is totally different than EASY. Following something like EASY is not incompatible with an AP philosophy, but Babywise is pretty much the antithesis of AP.
WTF does a Babywise follower keep posting on the AP board? Do you go to the EFF board and post about how you hate trees?
To be honest this seems like you are judging your DH's coworker and implying that they are bad parents since their 8 month old wakes 3-4x a night (you may not be but that is how it comes across). Every baby is different, every parent is different. Night waking does not mean the child has bad parents.
My DS still wakes up even after doing all the methods (except any form of CIO). He wakes because he doesn't feel well, he's growing, is teething, adjusting from vacation, and because he got my DH's sleep genes. It doesn't make me a bad parent simply because he doesn't STTN. He isn't controlling my life either--I'm his parent and I see it as my job to help soothe him through these difficult times. I'm sleep deprived, not unhappy and there is a big difference between the two.
yes, i agree
I don't think that it is always "about as far from AP as you can get." Sure, sleep training because mom is tired of getting up at night is probably not child-led. But sometimes, babies need to learn to sleep more than they need to know that their crying is always responded to for every second. It's another part of responding to cues and focusing on child-led parenting.
To me, it's a lot like BFing. There are lots of reasons for stopping. Some of them are child-led. It's a judgment call that some parents unfortunately have to make.
Hippy, I don't think that you have to defend your choices, particularly on this board. I may be wrong, but I imagine that most moms here that chose to sleep train did so at least somewhat reluctantly.
I read the baby whisperer and I liked a lot of it. I liked Easy, but he is more of a SYAE and repeat. With solids he's easy but he loves to nurse to sleep and who wouldn't???
I think it was Weisbluth who said that babies that age need to wake up and then nap 2 hours after that, 2,3 4 may be from him.
I read all the sleep training books and then decided what I wanted to use and what I wouldn't. No one trained me to sleep and eventually, he will STTN most likely when he is weaned and ready. There was a time, from about 5-7 months when he did STTN. Then he started to roll over in his sleep and he's been needing company ever since then. I am doing great, I have no problems with it.
So do what you feel is right, but remember, they are only this young at this moment. How do you want to make them feel? I know what I want and that's why we parent all night.
You are right...here we don't have to defend the choice to not sleep train as much on this board. But there have been comments, even in this thread, implying that by not sleep training we aren't 'giving our child the gift of sleep'.
But on other boards there is much more of a sleep training core and there are a lot of people who DO give people who don't sleep train grief.
Yeah. I wish I hadn't needed to give DS the gift of sleep. It sucked. I think you responded to more than one of my desperate posts back then
I'm very thankful to be back to a place where a "bad" night is being up 3-4 times to respond to him. Not 15.
I agree, those kinds of comments rub me the wrong way. I think parents give themselves too much credit for the "training" aspect of their kids sleep. Just admit it, the babies are calling the shots 90% of the time :P
Ok, I am bitter. I have a crap sleeper and have followed various sleep advisors... little bit of Sears, Weissbluth, some Ferber here and there, etc. (even did straight-up CIO) and I still have a baby who would rather play than sleep most of the time. We had a brief period of improvement from 6-ish to 7 months and then she learned to stand and crawl and everything went to hell again.
I am awaiting my copy of No Cry Sleep Solution but I have a feeling it will be for my entertainment only as DD settles into whatever sleep pattern she feels like next.
FWIW, we've been there. ou rmodified version of ferber helped at lot (as I mentioned above), but that's only because we were already about as bad as it could get. DS still goes through the regular sleep regressions that are described on askmoxie, and he's decided that 15mo is just as good a time as any to cut his two-year molars, so we are seeing him a bit more frequently between the hours of 12-6am these days.
my DS just doesn't consistently STTN yet. But I have faith that I will have to drag his ass out of bed by the time he's 14 just like a lot of these mamas with great sleepers
Totally agree. I've never even been on this board before and was just browsing (I would say that I have followed an "AP" lifestyle though). I'd just like to throw out that my SIXTEEN month old is up every 3 hours at night and has never sttn. And she doesn't control my life (well okay, she controls my sleep, but that isn't my life). And I'm not unhappy AT.ALL. Tired? Yes. Unhappy, no way.?
i have a crap sleeper too - in the beginning, she wouldn't sleep on her back, she would only sleep if she was held or in the swing, she refused to be swaddled - you name it, we tried it - she's just a bad sleeper - at 18 months, she toses and turns half the night, she talks in her sleep and she still isn't sleeping through the night consistently - plus, she only sleeps 10 hours when she does - she only naps for an hour (if i'm lucky) once a day - it's not ideal, but we've adjusted and she's not controlling my life anymore than she is when i have to make her 3 meals a day or change her diaper when she's wet
i asked the pedi about DD's sleep habits at her last visit and he said some kids are just "bad" sleepers - he also said that sleep patterns can be hereditary - i'm a crappy sleeper too, so DD came by it honestly!
I still nurse my daughter to sleep. Whatever works, works. She has been STTN since 4 months, took 2 2-hour naps/day until she turned 1, still takes one 2-3 hour nap now.
FWIW, however, I tend to equate "sleep training" with CIO since that's what most people I know IRL mean when they say "sleep training." It doesn't sound like this is what you mean, though.