Honestly, if a team wants to use Indians....

htomeo · June 2009

It is all how it is portrayed. Am I offended when I see a Native depicted like a "Savage", yes. But some communities and teams actually use it as educating opportunity.

In my town for instance..... The local minor league baseball team is the Spokane Indians. They have full backing from the tribe, and have an education board at the stadium. Some of the proceeds from the earnings go back to the Tribe, and to the tribal college here. My step kids are from this tribe, and are lucky to have the opportunities they have, because of the additional funding from the local sports teams.

When people assume it is a negative thing, others will follow suit.

It is a fine line, but when walked correctly (using better judgement), it can be walked.

But that is just my opinion.

*Bre* · June 2009

I agree. That line has been crossed for too long over the years, and I wish more schools/athletic clubs were more like yours.

adamwife · June 2009

Thanks for posting this mayo.

We were discussing in the other thread my cowboys and indians themed room for the boys. Does this honestly bother you? You can be honest.

I will reconsider the theme if it's offensive - honestly, I never thought about it until today.

Heather R · June 2009

So you would agree that the Cleveland Indians mascot is ? And the name Redskins is lousy? Or no? Just to fully understand your position. You said you dislike savage images but made no mention of some of the more noticeable teams.

Your local team has done a nice job!

htomeo · June 2009

I don't find it offensive. My own kids play it. Although, the cowboy usually looses. Wink

As long as you are not putting up murals of the Trail of Tears or Battle of Wounded Knee, I see no problem.

star173 · June 2009

Heather R:

So you would agree that the Cleveland Indians mascot is ? And the name Redskins is lousy? Or no? Just to fully understand your position. You said you dislike savage images but made no mention of some of the more noticeable teams.

Your local team has done a nice job!

Can I just say that I truly never paid attention to the term redskins before today- I thought they meant the football...but I think that's pigskin or something. I'm not a sports person. Embarrassed

htomeo · June 2009

Heather R:
So you would agree that the Cleveland Indians mascot is ? And the name Redskins is lousy? Or no? Just to fully understand your position. You said you dislike savage images but made no mention of some of the more noticeable teams.

Your local team has done a nice job!

Honestly, DH and I are divided on that. He likes to sport the gear "because it shows Natives like warriors", but I have a little problem with it. It is like people from one race using slang that is considered taboo, it is ok if they use it but not any other race. KWIM? I don't agree with it because it is a huge double standard.

adamwife · June 2009

htomeo:
I don't find it offensive. My own kids play it. Although, the cowboy usually looses. As long as you are not putting up murals of the Trail of Tears or Battle of Wounded Knee, I see no problem.

Well I have one of each and David's side is the Indian side. He is going to outweigh Gabe by the end of the year, so I have a feeling the Indians will be winning in our house too!

Amrice78 · June 2009

star173:
Heather R:

So you would agree that the Cleveland Indians mascot is ? And the name Redskins is lousy? Or no? Just to fully understand your position. You said you dislike savage images but made no mention of some of the more noticeable teams.

Your local team has done a nice job!

Can I just say that I truly never paid attention to the term redskins before today- I thought they meant the football...but I think that's pigskin or something. I'm not a sports person.

Oh Star, you just made me LOL. The football is a pigskin. Redskin is an outdated term for a Native American.

Heather R · June 2009

adamwife:

Well I have one of each and David's side is the Indian side. He is going to outweigh Gabe by the end of the year, so I have a feeling the Indians will be winning in our house too!

SCALP 'IM! SCALP 'IM!

htomeo · June 2009

adamwife:
htomeo:
I don't find it offensive. My own kids play it. Although, the cowboy usually looses. As long as you are not putting up murals of the Trail of Tears or Battle of Wounded Knee, I see no problem.

Well I have one of each and David's side is the Indian side. He is going to outweigh Gabe by the end of the year, so I have a feeling the Indians will be winning in our house too!

LOL

zach'swife · June 2009

star173:
Heather R:

So you would agree that the Cleveland Indians mascot is ? And the name Redskins is lousy? Or no? Just to fully understand your position. You said you dislike savage images but made no mention of some of the more noticeable teams.

Your local team has done a nice job!

Can I just say that I truly never paid attention to the term redskins before today- I thought they meant the football...but I think that's pigskin or something. I'm not a sports person.

How cute is that??

zach'swife · June 2009

htomeo:
It is all how it is portrayed. Am I offended when I see a Native depicted like a "Savage", yes. But some communities and teams actually use it as educating opportunity.
In my town for instance..... The local minor league baseball team is the Spokane Indians. They have full backing from the tribe, and have an education board at the stadium. Some of the proceeds from the earnings go back to the Tribe, and to the tribal college here. My step kids are from this tribe, and are lucky to have the opportunities they have, because of the additional funding from the local sports teams.
When people assume it is a negative thing, others will follow suit.
It is a fine line, but when walked correctly (using better judgement), it can be walked.
But that is just my opinion.

Well put indeed. Yes

htomeo · June 2009

Heather R:
SCALP 'IM! SCALP 'IM!

Now that, I do find somewhat offensive. Huh?

htomeo · June 2009

Amrice78:
star173:
Heather R:

So you would agree that the Cleveland Indians mascot is ? And the name Redskins is lousy? Or no? Just to fully understand your position. You said you dislike savage images but made no mention of some of the more noticeable teams.

Your local team has done a nice job!

Can I just say that I truly never paid attention to the term redskins before today- I thought they meant the football...but I think that's pigskin or something. I'm not a sports person.
Oh Star, you just made me LOL. The football is a pigskin. Redskin is an outdated term for a Native American.

Made me LOL too!

Heather R · June 2009

htomeo:
Heather R:

SCALP 'IM! SCALP 'IM!

Now that, I do find somewhat offensive.

Goodness, I'm sorry! aw here will tell you I am the Queen of PC (she told me so last night) and certainly meant no racial reference by it. I meant her little boys duking it out. Scalping, of course, was a European custom, not a NA custom originally.

goodtobethelarkster · June 2009

zach'swife:
htomeo:

It is all how it is portrayed. Am I offended when I see a Native depicted like a "Savage", yes. But some communities and teams actually use it as educating opportunity.

In my town for instance..... The local minor league baseball team is the Spokane Indians. They have full backing from the tribe, and have an education board at the stadium. Some of the proceeds from the earnings go back to the Tribe, and to the tribal college here. My step kids are from this tribe, and are lucky to have the opportunities they have, because of the additional funding from the local sports teams.

When people assume it is a negative thing, others will follow suit.

It is a fine line, but when walked correctly (using better judgement), it can be walked.

But that is just my opinion.

Well put indeed.

Yes Yes

I agree. Especially with the "with better judgment" part. You can do most things in a tasteful, respectful, unpromblematic fashion... And more power to you when you do.

What gets me about the "should 'indians' be sports mascots?" type of debates is that it's all so black and white (pardon the metaphor). It's not like it's either that the indians should never, ever, ever be used as a symbol of anything ever, ever, ever because it's racist and terrible and disrespectful. And, equally, it's not like people are just being oversensitive when they get annoyed that there's a caricature of their cultural history dancing around scalping people in stereotypical non specific tribal dress and yelling "woo-woo-woo" because all depictions of native Americans as mascots are okay ever. Like most things you just need to not be an offensive douche about it.

adamwife · June 2009

Heather R:
htomeo:
Heather R:

SCALP 'IM! SCALP 'IM!

Now that, I do find somewhat offensive.

Goodness, I'm sorry! aw here will tell you I am the Queen of PC (she told me so last night) and certainly meant no racial reference by it. I meant her little boys duking it out. Scalping, of course, was a European custom, not a NA custom originally.

I can vouch for her. We have gotten into many-a-flamewar over her PCness and my lack thereof.

htomeo · June 2009

Heather R:
htomeo:
Heather R:

SCALP 'IM! SCALP 'IM!

Now that, I do find somewhat offensive.

Goodness, I'm sorry! aw here will tell you I am the Queen of PC (she told me so last night) and certainly meant no racial reference by it. I meant her little boys duking it out. Scalping, of course, was a European custom, not a NA custom originally.

It's all good. It is just a stereotype tacked on during many of the American Indian wars. Hollywood did not help in that matter.

Heather R · June 2009

htomeo:

It's all good. It is just a stereotype tacked on during many of the American Indian wars. Hollywood did not help in that matter.

Aha, but among educated folks like us, we know the facts that Hollywood screws up (like where scalping really came from).

lol that aw vouched for me.

adamwife · June 2009

Heather R:

lol that aw vouched for me.

A pig just flew past my window.

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